first marathon any tips.
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lsutton484 wrote: »wow again thanks for all the advice and moral support?
I'm not stupid I know this is a dumb thing to do but when you have friends sometimes dumb things are required.
So said almost every winner of the Darwin award.
Those of us who have run marathons are just trying to be honest about our experiences training for and running the
distance. 20 miles is usually a Sunday long run, not a weeks mileage. The pounding your toes, shins, knees, etc will take for 4-6 hours can't be simulated.
The wall can't be simulated.
Having said that......... the feeling you'll get when you cross the finish line is indescribable. I really do hope you can complete with a smile on your face and no regrets.
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If you've decided to do it, just do it. Stick with your friend for a bit. Then wish her luck, shrug and run walk. If you don't finish, bfd. There's always next time. Drink water early and at every stop. Waych the gu, you can overdo. I did it once and have never barfed like that in my life (thought my shoes were coming up!). Ice bath after helps with soreness (helped me anyway). Good luck!!2
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lsutton484 wrote: »wow again thanks for all the advice and moral support?
I'm not stupid I know this is a dumb thing to do but when you have friends sometimes dumb things are required. She knows fully that at some point she's leaving me behind and we are both ok with that. at a 4:20 to 4:30 pace its a reasonably easy pace for me to maintain for 13 miles so I'll have at least the first half covered and would expect to have a few extra miles in the tank based on the way my last half marathon went. I understand the full is much different than the half but intend to give it my best shot.
Right. But you're basing that on what happens when you only have to cover 13 miles. You're looking now at doing twice that, and you're expecting to have similar results. I have a strong feeling you're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
I mean, I can do a half in 2:45ish. (My first one I did 2:47, but that was on a broken toe, so I'd like to think I'd shave those two minutes off when I'm not feeling like my toe is going to separate itself from my foot.) But I have no such delusions that I could keep that pace up for another 13.1 miles, because I simply haven't trained my body to force itself to do that.
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collectingblues wrote: »lsutton484 wrote: »wow again thanks for all the advice and moral support?
I'm not stupid I know this is a dumb thing to do but when you have friends sometimes dumb things are required. She knows fully that at some point she's leaving me behind and we are both ok with that. at a 4:20 to 4:30 pace its a reasonably easy pace for me to maintain for 13 miles so I'll have at least the first half covered and would expect to have a few extra miles in the tank based on the way my last half marathon went. I understand the full is much different than the half but intend to give it my best shot.
Right. But you're basing that on what happens when you only have to cover 13 miles. You're looking now at doing twice that, and you're expecting to have similar results. I have a strong feeling you're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
I mean, I can do a half in 2:45ish. (My first one I did 2:47, but that was on a broken toe, so I'd like to think I'd shave those two minutes off when I'm not feeling like my toe is going to separate itself from my foot.) But I have no such delusions that I could keep that pace up for another 13.1 miles, because I simply haven't trained my body to force itself to do that.
Yeah, I've done several halfs and one marathon. In my opinion, you can't assume your pace and endurance will carry over. A marathon isn't just like two half marathons. It's a whole different experience.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »lsutton484 wrote: »wow again thanks for all the advice and moral support?
I'm not stupid I know this is a dumb thing to do but when you have friends sometimes dumb things are required. She knows fully that at some point she's leaving me behind and we are both ok with that. at a 4:20 to 4:30 pace its a reasonably easy pace for me to maintain for 13 miles so I'll have at least the first half covered and would expect to have a few extra miles in the tank based on the way my last half marathon went. I understand the full is much different than the half but intend to give it my best shot.
Right. But you're basing that on what happens when you only have to cover 13 miles. You're looking now at doing twice that, and you're expecting to have similar results. I have a strong feeling you're going to be unpleasantly surprised.
I mean, I can do a half in 2:45ish. (My first one I did 2:47, but that was on a broken toe, so I'd like to think I'd shave those two minutes off when I'm not feeling like my toe is going to separate itself from my foot.) But I have no such delusions that I could keep that pace up for another 13.1 miles, because I simply haven't trained my body to force itself to do that.
Yeah, I've done several halfs and one marathon. In my opinion, you can't assume your pace and endurance will carry over. A marathon isn't just like two half marathons. It's a whole different experience.
And I freely admit that I have no desire to do a full, because OMG the long training run for that would be more beyond what my tolerance for mindless would be. I run outside, on a hilly loop, but to do a 20-mile long run would involve doing that loop four times, and NOPE. I'll happily stick to my halves, 10-milers, and 10Ks.
I'm all about endurance, and I like the longer distance because I feel like superwoman (albeit a very slow superwoman), but I can't fathom doing a 20-mile long run every week.0 -
thank you everyone. I know there is no way with my current level of training that my half marathon pace would cary through If I were foolish enough to believe that then I'd be saying that the 4:20 to 4:30 pace my friend can keep would be slow. I'm fully aware that the 6 hour course shutoff is a more realistic pace to shoot for.
But I am in and I'm in to finish not to quit, back out early, or just quit before I even try.
I'm sure that all of you who have done this before know a lot more than I do and I am taking all your advice into consideration but since I'm doing this please give me advice of how to get there not tell me how dumb I am for doing it or telling me not to do it.
Some questions I have are what do you do for your feet. My friend that I'm running with uses tri spray which is a wetsuit lube on her feet. I'm wondering if this is a good idea for me? what type socks? My shoes themselves are fairly new and in good condition ut I've read that people prefer certain socksall I have now are some cheap moisture wicking ones.
I learned in the first half marathon I ran that covering my nipples is important. are there any other areas I should be concerned with? I plan on wearing the exact same clothes I wore for my last half because there was no irratation of any kind so I'm hoping for this.
I've been experimenting on my longer runs with gu gels and will just carry a bunch of these with me rahter than taking the chance of the race having something different that I'm not used to. Is there any other mid race nutrition I should consider?
I'm a heavy sweater but water and gatorade is available every mile along the race course so I'm not planning on taking my hydration pack that I use on long trail runs. If you think this is a mistake please let me know.0 -
Okay.....
Body Glide is your friend.... use it EVERYWHERE you think or don't think will rub & chaff.... I've even used it on my feet - get some & try it before race day.
I don't know how hot/humid it will be where you are but don't be afraid to use some water on your head along with drinking it.
I always wore double layer socks... helped with blisters but everyone is different.
If your thirsty it's too late...... drink water whether you think you need it or not.
Decide on how often your going to take your gels and stick to it whether you feel you need them or not - unless you develop GI problems - hopefully you won't.
I also carried a couple of vitamin I..... Ibuprofen wrapped up in my shorts pocket just in case.
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The day before........... if you don't have to run - walk, if you don't have to walk - sit, if you don't have to sit... lay down. REST
And....
DON'T CHANGE YOUR ROUTINE! DON'T DECIDE TO TRY SOMETHING NEW THE DAY OF!
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Lastly..... I do not care what anyone says..... you cross that finish line and no Olympic Gold Medalist will fell a bigger rush than you will.
Hope this helps just a little and again.... this is just from my experience....
Good luck!
"Success isn't how far you got, but the distance you traveled from where you started" - Pre
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Don't take the gels and gatorade at the same time - that overloads the stomach with too much sugar. The races I've done had water tables every two miles, so I alternated water and gatorade with the Gus during the water stops. I also learned to make the Gus last, so it would take a mile or so to swallow the whole thing rather than trying to force down the whole thing at once.
To repeat - don't run with your friend. You need to start a walk/run from the beginning, not waiting until you are tired. If you do, you'll find it harder and harder to start up the running again.5 -
As others have said, you're in for some pain and a possible DNF. To reduce the chance of DNF:
1. Start slow. Really slow. Slower than you think is slow. The first 13.1 miles should be the slowest half marathon you have ever run in your life.
2. The first half should feel ridiculously easy and like you're not working at all. If if feels like you're doing any work, the last half will be awful.
3. The first 10K is a *warmup*. Run it at your easy pace or slower.
4. Don't be ashamed to walk all or any part of the course.
There is a reason they say a marathon is a nice 20 mile jog followed by the hardest 10K of your life. Do that first 20 miles too hard, and the last 10K will feel like a death march.10 -
I don't run anymore and I've done only one marathon, but here's what I remember...start off slow. You'll be excited and want to go faster, but don't. If you do, you'll regret it in the second half. Don't try to keep up with your friend. Add some walking in every few miles. As someone else mentioned, use Body Glide everywhere. I did carry water with me and was happy to have it. I forgot to bring lip balm and was desperate for it. I thought the first 21 miles were pretty easy. The last 5 were miserable. Please get some different socks to experiment with quickly, before the race gets any closer...you need comfortable socks.
Good luck!0 -
lsutton484 wrote: »
I'm not stupid I know this is a dumb thing to do but when you have friends sometimes dumb things are required. She knows fully that at some point she's leaving me behind and we are both ok with that. at a 4:20 to 4:30 pace its a reasonably easy pace for me to maintain for 13 miles so I'll have at least the first half covered and would expect to have a few extra miles in the tank based on the way my last half marathon went. I understand the full is much different than the half but intend to give it my best shot.
To piggyback on what has already been said, I would not try and keep up with your "friend's" 4:20-4:30 pace from the start, unless you are prepared for a major suckfest at the end. As an experienced marathoner, I can tell you that the best way to get through a marathon is to maintain a steady pace or even negative splits throughout the race. If you go out faster than you intend to finish, you are setting yourself up to crash and burn and those final miles are going to be really, really difficult. Just because you can run 13.1 miles at that pace, does not mean that you can run 26.2 at the same pace. Even with serious training, my marathon pace is about 45 seconds per mile slower than my half marathon pace. A full marathon is far more than two half marathons put together. Just keep that in mind. Good luck!
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some thoughts on pace. a 4:30 marathon represents a pace of 10.20 and a 4:20 pace is right around 10 minutes per mile for each mile. I ran my last half at a 9:22 pace in steep hilly terrain wouldn't the 10:20 pace be about where I should try to stay? How much should I try to pull back my pace?0
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How hard did you push to get that pace in your half? That seems fairly reasonable to drop about a minute.0
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lsutton484 wrote: »some thoughts on pace. a 4:30 marathon represents a pace of 10.20 and a 4:20 pace is right around 10 minutes per mile for each mile. I ran my last half at a 9:22 pace in steep hilly terrain wouldn't the 10:20 pace be about where I should try to stay? How much should I try to pull back my pace?
I would say that's reasonable if you had been training. Exactly how much running have you been doing? What has been your longest run in the past several months?1 -
lsutton484 wrote: »some thoughts on pace. a 4:30 marathon represents a pace of 10.20 and a 4:20 pace is right around 10 minutes per mile for each mile. I ran my last half at a 9:22 pace in steep hilly terrain wouldn't the 10:20 pace be about where I should try to stay? How much should I try to pull back my pace?
A lot. You should pull it back a lot to a very, very easy conversational pace.
Personally I think you can finish and maybe manage to have a good time, but if I were you I'd expect the worst case outcome (6 hr cutoff finish) and pace yourself at that time for the first half. Instead of thinking about the race as two half marathons, you need to think of the distance as one 20 mile-ish portion and one very very difficult 6 mile portion, and pace yourself for that. You're not racing this. It's a lot better to have something left in the tank for those final miles.
Body glide is great but don't try any major new things on race day (food, clothes). Minimize your room for error by sticking with what you know.
Also, the best advice I will give you is that I know you want to finish more than anything but if you feel major pain beyond any of the usual long distance soreness or general "I can't do this", stop. Don't push past an injury. That's a good way to be sidelined for a long time while you heal.2 -
The unknown factor for you is the distance.
It's not how fast can you run 13.1 miles, it's how fast can you run 13.1 miles AFTER you've already run 13.1 miles.
That's the point that is hard for first timers to wrap their head around, myself included.
Pace bands calculators won't help you because you do not have the base yet.
You've gotten ton's of advice............ if your going to listen to any of it...... listen to the GO SLOW advice.
11:30 minutes/mile pace will get you in at 5 hours.......... very respectable considering your low mileage base.
12:00 minutes/mile pace will get you in at 5:15 hours.
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You can qualify for Boston at your next marathon! 1 -
Wow! Some "boisterous" opinions on this topic. lol. I think to some folks who train as hard as we do to run a marathon it may seem like you're trivializing what it takes a bit and that gets some folks upset. So take that into account when reading some of the responses.
Anyway, since you haven't trained, and aren't competing in the Olympics, just go out and have fun. If you finish you finish, if you don't you'll have the experience and a better idea of what it will take to finish.
Since you've run a half I imagine you know about hydration and nutrition. Basically drink water at every station, usually every two miles, thirsty or not. Take some race-nutrition about every fourth mile, followed with water. For example, I would open up my first Gu at approximately 3.75 miles and by the time I finished it I could grab a couple of cups of water to wash it down with. My stomach usually shuts down about mile 20 or 22 and so I have to rely on those early Gu gels to get me through.
If you don't want to carry your own nutrition find out what the race is providing and go out and buy some to try first. This is to avoid whatever it is causing gut distress because it's something that your stomach or gut doesn't tolerate well. Personally, I like to carry my own preferred flavor of Gu that I train with. I have a small running belt that I can put six or seven of them in and I don't even notice they're there and I don't have to take a chance on some weird energy drink that was provided by a sponsor.
Carb load a day, or even two, before the race to build up the glycogen stores in your muscles, but don't eat anything you haven't eaten before. Don't want your stomach or guts rebelling on you.
Get up a couple of hours before the race to completely hydrate and eat something sugar-heavy. My personal favorite is a peanut-butter and honey sandwich and copious amounts of water. I stop drinking about an hour and a half before the race start and when I get to the start line I line up at the porta-toilets do my business and get right back in line and do it over again. I keep that up until it's time to start the race, just to make sure that at the very least I don't have to stop at the first on-course portajohns. That first set if completely packed.
Good luck!
Oh, and one more thing, look for race-pace predictor charts. They're all over the Internet. I'm always amazed at how accurate they are. If you plug in your half time it'll tell you what to expect for your full time.0 -
there is absolutely 0 chance of me ever qualifying for Boston because this could very easily be my 1 and only attempt at the marathon. I just do not have tie time throughout the week to dedicate to the base miles. I do certainly admire those who can do it however.
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lol.... I was teasing about Boston.
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Actually, ignore the race predictors. Most of them assume you're running 70 miles per week and have been running consistently for several years. That doesn't apply.
One problem with relying on Gels provided by the race is many of them don't actually show up until mile 16 or so. You will want to start taking them long before. It takes time to build your stamina enough that you don't need the sugar boost.2
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