first marathon any tips.
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lsutton484 wrote: »
I'm not stupid I know this is a dumb thing to do but when you have friends sometimes dumb things are required. She knows fully that at some point she's leaving me behind and we are both ok with that. at a 4:20 to 4:30 pace its a reasonably easy pace for me to maintain for 13 miles so I'll have at least the first half covered and would expect to have a few extra miles in the tank based on the way my last half marathon went. I understand the full is much different than the half but intend to give it my best shot.
To piggyback on what has already been said, I would not try and keep up with your "friend's" 4:20-4:30 pace from the start, unless you are prepared for a major suckfest at the end. As an experienced marathoner, I can tell you that the best way to get through a marathon is to maintain a steady pace or even negative splits throughout the race. If you go out faster than you intend to finish, you are setting yourself up to crash and burn and those final miles are going to be really, really difficult. Just because you can run 13.1 miles at that pace, does not mean that you can run 26.2 at the same pace. Even with serious training, my marathon pace is about 45 seconds per mile slower than my half marathon pace. A full marathon is far more than two half marathons put together. Just keep that in mind. Good luck!
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some thoughts on pace. a 4:30 marathon represents a pace of 10.20 and a 4:20 pace is right around 10 minutes per mile for each mile. I ran my last half at a 9:22 pace in steep hilly terrain wouldn't the 10:20 pace be about where I should try to stay? How much should I try to pull back my pace?0
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How hard did you push to get that pace in your half? That seems fairly reasonable to drop about a minute.0
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lsutton484 wrote: »some thoughts on pace. a 4:30 marathon represents a pace of 10.20 and a 4:20 pace is right around 10 minutes per mile for each mile. I ran my last half at a 9:22 pace in steep hilly terrain wouldn't the 10:20 pace be about where I should try to stay? How much should I try to pull back my pace?
I would say that's reasonable if you had been training. Exactly how much running have you been doing? What has been your longest run in the past several months?1 -
lsutton484 wrote: »some thoughts on pace. a 4:30 marathon represents a pace of 10.20 and a 4:20 pace is right around 10 minutes per mile for each mile. I ran my last half at a 9:22 pace in steep hilly terrain wouldn't the 10:20 pace be about where I should try to stay? How much should I try to pull back my pace?
A lot. You should pull it back a lot to a very, very easy conversational pace.
Personally I think you can finish and maybe manage to have a good time, but if I were you I'd expect the worst case outcome (6 hr cutoff finish) and pace yourself at that time for the first half. Instead of thinking about the race as two half marathons, you need to think of the distance as one 20 mile-ish portion and one very very difficult 6 mile portion, and pace yourself for that. You're not racing this. It's a lot better to have something left in the tank for those final miles.
Body glide is great but don't try any major new things on race day (food, clothes). Minimize your room for error by sticking with what you know.
Also, the best advice I will give you is that I know you want to finish more than anything but if you feel major pain beyond any of the usual long distance soreness or general "I can't do this", stop. Don't push past an injury. That's a good way to be sidelined for a long time while you heal.2 -
The unknown factor for you is the distance.
It's not how fast can you run 13.1 miles, it's how fast can you run 13.1 miles AFTER you've already run 13.1 miles.
That's the point that is hard for first timers to wrap their head around, myself included.
Pace bands calculators won't help you because you do not have the base yet.
You've gotten ton's of advice............ if your going to listen to any of it...... listen to the GO SLOW advice.
11:30 minutes/mile pace will get you in at 5 hours.......... very respectable considering your low mileage base.
12:00 minutes/mile pace will get you in at 5:15 hours.
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You can qualify for Boston at your next marathon!
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Wow! Some "boisterous" opinions on this topic. lol. I think to some folks who train as hard as we do to run a marathon it may seem like you're trivializing what it takes a bit and that gets some folks upset. So take that into account when reading some of the responses.
Anyway, since you haven't trained, and aren't competing in the Olympics, just go out and have fun. If you finish you finish, if you don't you'll have the experience and a better idea of what it will take to finish.
Since you've run a half I imagine you know about hydration and nutrition. Basically drink water at every station, usually every two miles, thirsty or not. Take some race-nutrition about every fourth mile, followed with water. For example, I would open up my first Gu at approximately 3.75 miles and by the time I finished it I could grab a couple of cups of water to wash it down with. My stomach usually shuts down about mile 20 or 22 and so I have to rely on those early Gu gels to get me through.
If you don't want to carry your own nutrition find out what the race is providing and go out and buy some to try first. This is to avoid whatever it is causing gut distress because it's something that your stomach or gut doesn't tolerate well. Personally, I like to carry my own preferred flavor of Gu that I train with. I have a small running belt that I can put six or seven of them in and I don't even notice they're there and I don't have to take a chance on some weird energy drink that was provided by a sponsor.
Carb load a day, or even two, before the race to build up the glycogen stores in your muscles, but don't eat anything you haven't eaten before. Don't want your stomach or guts rebelling on you.
Get up a couple of hours before the race to completely hydrate and eat something sugar-heavy. My personal favorite is a peanut-butter and honey sandwich and copious amounts of water. I stop drinking about an hour and a half before the race start and when I get to the start line I line up at the porta-toilets do my business and get right back in line and do it over again. I keep that up until it's time to start the race, just to make sure that at the very least I don't have to stop at the first on-course portajohns. That first set if completely packed.
Good luck!
Oh, and one more thing, look for race-pace predictor charts. They're all over the Internet. I'm always amazed at how accurate they are. If you plug in your half time it'll tell you what to expect for your full time.0 -
there is absolutely 0 chance of me ever qualifying for Boston because this could very easily be my 1 and only attempt at the marathon. I just do not have tie time throughout the week to dedicate to the base miles. I do certainly admire those who can do it however.
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lol.... I was teasing about Boston.
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Actually, ignore the race predictors. Most of them assume you're running 70 miles per week and have been running consistently for several years. That doesn't apply.
One problem with relying on Gels provided by the race is many of them don't actually show up until mile 16 or so. You will want to start taking them long before. It takes time to build your stamina enough that you don't need the sugar boost.2 -
You've gotten some great advice here, I don't have anything to add. I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes - good luck!0
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spiriteagle99 wrote: »Actually, ignore the race predictors. Most of them assume you're running 70 miles per week and have been running consistently for several years. That doesn't apply.
I agree. I've completed 2 marathons and am 3 weeks off my third and the race predictors haven't been right yet. My hm pr is 1:35 and the calculators think I should be doing a marathon in 3:19, but it's been 3:42 and 3:32 so far. I think I've been training pretty well and haven't had any niggles, but I still don't expect to get sub 3:20. Hell , if I get sub 3:30 I'll be pretty stoked0 -
How's your training going @lsutton484 ?0
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good. I feel pretty good. ran 35 miles last week. Not nearly enough but I'm trying hard to get to the starting line in good shape. Got a stick of bodyglide and a can of tri spray(suggested for feet and preventing blisters) tried them. Found another fresh pair of the socks I wear to run in my drawer so I'm gonna cycle them through this week on a short run to make sure they don't bother my feet. Weather forecast is cool and rainy so my usual running gear will work. Got the same vanilla bean gu packs they have at the race just happened to be what I've tried in the past so that worked out good for me. Finished my cycle of 5/3/1 and have a deload week this week so no really heavy lifting before the marathon.
I'm trying to organize my week at this point I'm going to take a 8 mile run on some hilly terrain tonight, do my benchpress and overhead press workout in the morning, squats and deadlifts on Tuesday, short run Wednesday(4 miles or so) maybe repeat on Thursday if I feel good then rest and carb up for race day on Sunday.
My biggest battle will be my brain on the starting line and trying to force my feet to run a much slower pace than I normally run. tried to pull my pace back but keeping a pace less than 10:00 has been harder for me to do than I ever expected. I'm having serious doubts about my ability to run further slower than 10:00 as it feels like some sort of shuffling power walk rather than a nice easy jogging pace. So I'm debating between just sticking to that 10:00 pace group like glue until I can't hold it anymore and doing my own run/walk with my Garmin. I haven't done a ton of run/walk and it always sems odd to me to cycle back up to that running pace again.
When I first began running and left the c25k plan I forced myself to run time or distance without walking because I thought that was right. so for the longest time stopping in the middle of my run or walking in the middle would throw off my concentration enough that catching that rythem again was hard. I have thrown in random walk beaks to break me of this habbit so I hope it works.2 -
Day before race day. feeling pretty good. Gonna take it easy today a walk this evening and a good carb loading dinner with my family. Thanks again everyone for all the advice and I'll be back with a full report sometime early in the week.5
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Have fun!1
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I'll be back in the morning to write a more detailed writeup but for now here it goes. a finishing time of 5:01 on the timer but probably closer to 4:59 based on getting of the starting corral. first half was gravy and went by at around 2:10. The second half the wheels fell off with terrible leg cramps, and my own doubts. I would like to thank my friend Heather for taking me and refusing to leave me behind. She was there every step of the way even after repeatedly telling her to leave.13
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Well done! I'm super glad to be proven wrong
I'm not sure how to put this without coming across as a backdoor brag, but: as someone who does 3.30ish marathons, I am always in awe of people who do 4 hours or longer. I can't imagine the mental discipline to keep going that long, I'd be on the roadside crying.
Hope your recovery is swift! Well done again2 -
Based on my personal experience, if you can run a half-marathon without trouble, you can survive a full. It will probably be a little rough, though. Pace yourself (go slow.) If I can finish, YOU can finish. Good luck!
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Run?0
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lsutton484 wrote: »I'll be back in the morning to write a more detailed writeup but for now here it goes. a finishing time of 5:01 on the timer but probably closer to 4:59 based on getting of the starting corral. first half was gravy and went by at around 2:10. The second half the wheels fell off with terrible leg cramps, and my own doubts. I would like to thank my friend Heather for taking me and refusing to leave me behind. She was there every step of the way even after repeatedly telling her to leave.
That's really great. TBH I was a little worried for you. You rocked it out! Well done.1 -
I'm gonna lay out my race the best I can for now. we started in the corral near the back and set our own pace. Never having run together before we were both fairly comfortable around 10:00 pace. 4 miles in I past the furst puking runners including 1 man who said he was done. 8 miles in my garmin decided to die of low battery even though it had been fully charged before I put it in my bag. We finished the first lap of the 2 lap course in around 2:10 according to the timer at the start/finish line. I've never run further than a half marathon before in my life. about 2 miles after that mark I started having calf cramps. This i believe was a lack of me just not having the knowledge I needed to fuel properly. I was eating candy and trying to choke down gu for the first 3 hours but after that even the thoughts of putting any more gu in my mouth caused my guts to rebel. We ran walked in short intervals for the next few miles but the run intervals became shorter and shorter while the walk intervals became longer. At mile 24 my left quad started cramping and locking up. I had to sit down didn't want to but had no choice but to bend that leg up and rest for a minute. I got up and that had helped enough that we ran the majority of the last 2.2 miles. We crossed the finish line together.
I'd like to thank my friend Heather for first of all pushing me into the marathon because its honestly not a step that I probably would have taken for myself. Yes it wasn't enough notice and I told her this repeatedly as she did all she could short of shoving or dragging me along the course.
Now for the post race review. I suffered 1 blister on my left foot and the liner of my shorts that I've worn for half marathons destroyed the skin on my upper thighs. I'm stiff this morning but otherwise I feel pretty good and am looking forward to getting out and active again in the next couple days.
Will I do it again? fy first reaction is NO but that 5 hour mark wasn't what I wanted and I think with good training, proper fueling, and good friends I could get that time down a bit.6 -
Well done.
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when you are out of gas, physically and mentally...do not think of how many miles you have left...think only of that next step...make it perfect...make the next step perfect too. And so on,1
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And fwiw I struggle to stomach more than 4 gels, but recently switched to Tailwind. Very easy on the stomach and 400 calories of that got me through each of my marathons at the weekend without an issue.1
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Don't injure yourself. I did a half easily, coming in at 2:00:48, but the two full marathons I did were torture. The first one was alright, I think we came in around 4:12 with consistent training and a focus on nutrition, but the second one was 4:35 because I didn't take training as seriously/consistently. There was an enormous difference. The risk of injury goes up exponentially once you pass your longest long run distance: I trained to 22 miles so the last 4 were horrible, and if you've only done 13/15 (assuming) you'll be putting yourself at risk of injury for the last >10 miles.
But you do you, and we'll cheer you on; stay hydrated, stay loose, aim for a negative split.0 -
Don't injure yourself. I did a half easily, coming in at 2:00:48, but the two full marathons I did were torture. The first one was alright, I think we came in around 4:12 with consistent training and a focus on nutrition, but the second one was 4:35 because I didn't take training as seriously/consistently. There was an enormous difference. The risk of injury goes up exponentially once you pass your longest long run distance: I trained to 22 miles so the last 4 were horrible, and if you've only done 13/15 (assuming) you'll be putting yourself at risk of injury for the last >10 miles.
But you do you, and we'll cheer you on; stay hydrated, stay loose, aim for a negative split.
OP has already done the race...3 -
Don't injure yourself. I did a half easily, coming in at 2:00:48, but the two full marathons I did were torture. The first one was alright, I think we came in around 4:12 with consistent training and a focus on nutrition, but the second one was 4:35 because I didn't take training as seriously/consistently. There was an enormous difference. The risk of injury goes up exponentially once you pass your longest long run distance: I trained to 22 miles so the last 4 were horrible, and if you've only done 13/15 (assuming) you'll be putting yourself at risk of injury for the last >10 miles.
But you do you, and we'll cheer you on; stay hydrated, stay loose, aim for a negative split.
Exponentially increased injury past your longest run? That's not how it works. Plus the vast majority of marathon programs only go to 20 miles. That's pretty standard.
Most interesting, and what is actually horrible horrible advice for the person in the the given situation is suggesting they aim for a negative split. That's almost as bad as saying start out as fast as you can & hope for the best. In order for a negative split, you've got to be pretty well trained and have an idea of pacing, and what you are capable of. A 1st time marathoner who's severely undertrained has 0 chance of a negative split unless they walk the 1st half.3 -
sitting here today I've got some time to think and I've been doing just that. I have no choice but to go back there next year and run the race I wanted to run. I ran the race I deserved this year and my friend had to run the race she deserved for throwing me into this with no prep time but next year we're both gonna have our race even if I have to drag her with me.8
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Thanks for checking back in and telling us how it went. Congratulations on completing the marathon, something 99.5% of us will never do.1
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