Nutrition is not a belief system...
J72FIT
Posts: 6,009 Member
5
Replies
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Science just isn't sexy enough for the masses
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Okay article.
The problem with science is the conflicting studies. Over and over you see one study that proves something and then another that disproves it. There is very little fact out there beyond people need calories, protein and some fats from quality foods full of micronutrients.
I did find it sort of funny how he went on about sexy, splashy diet programs that are out to make a buck, but then finished with advertising for Precision Nutrition. Bit ironic.9 -
Okay article.
The problem with science is the conflicting studies. Over and over you see one study that proves something and then another that disproves it. There is very little fact out there beyond people need calories, protein and some fats from quality foods full of micronutrients.
I did find it sort of funny how he went on about sexy, splashy diet programs that are out to make a buck, but then finished with advertising for Precision Nutrition. Bit ironic.
It's not usually a problem with science, but with the reporting of it. The media and the masses don't understand science or studies or what the conclusions are and completely bugger it up.
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eh, it kind of does. Because he basically reduces every other diet belief to hokem, because they don't agree with what his particular beliefs are. Almost every diet "belief" is backed up by some form of science. That's where they all come from, some study, somewhere, says something, and people run with it. He's not really any different. He's just trying to convince you his is to sell books, oddly for a diet system he's not even fully qualified in yet, which is interesting.9 -
eh, it kind of does. Because he basically reduces every other diet belief to hokem, because they don't agree with what his particular beliefs are. Almost every diet "belief" is backed up by some form of science. That's where they all come from, some study, somewhere, says something, and people run with it. He's not really any different. He's just trying to convince you his is to sell books, oddly for a diet system he's not even fully qualified in yet, which is interesting.
Agree to disagree...0 -
Advertorial. Not much more.2
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eh, it kind of does. Because he basically reduces every other diet belief to hokem, because they don't agree with what his particular beliefs are. Almost every diet "belief" is backed up by some form of science. That's where they all come from, some study, somewhere, says something, and people run with it. He's not really any different. He's just trying to convince you his is to sell books, oddly for a diet system he's not even fully qualified in yet, which is interesting.
Agree to disagree...
disagree all you want. I don't know if I've ever seen a diet plan that didn't have a lengthy list of citations to back it up. Even plans that differ completely.
The message I take away from that is that the most important thing in weight loss, more than the specifics of how you're dieting, is THAT you're dieting. That structure, rules, and rigorous adherence to some basic methodology, is better than a casual "just eat less" approach.4 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Okay article.
The problem with science is the conflicting studies. Over and over you see one study that proves something and then another that disproves it. There is very little fact out there beyond people need calories, protein and some fats from quality foods full of micronutrients.
I did find it sort of funny how he went on about sexy, splashy diet programs that are out to make a buck, but then finished with advertising for Precision Nutrition. Bit ironic.
It's not usually a problem with science, but with the reporting of it. The media and the masses don't understand science or studies or what the conclusions are and completely bugger it up.
No. I disagree. I have seen different studies with conflicting results.
It is not just the reporting, or how the scientist chooses to spin his data, although that can be quite creative too. Meta analysis can be creatively done as well.8 -
He had aome interesting thoughts but he lost credibility at the end.4 -
Part of the problem is people thinking one study is "science", and is supposed to make a permanent determination. Science "decides" something over hundreds of studies and experiments and surveys over years. Science needs ambiguous and failed studies to provide direction to better designed studies and research. Any diet can cite "a study". That's not science, but unfortunately far too many people think it is. That's when it comes down to believing one study over the other, which is a misguided way to go.
Edited to add: Just skimmed the article and it made great points, but yeah I felt a little used at the end lol.10 -
IMO it's a very well written commercial12
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He had aome interesting thoughts but he lost credibility at the end.
the hilarious part?
#4 on his list of what to do next
4. Scrutinize claims that are tied to financial gain.
and #6?
6. Get qualified coaching.
If you don’t feel confident reading research or understanding the science, consider finding a Precision Nutrition Certified coach or enrolling in the Certification yourself.
hmmm
folllowed a pitch for his classes, and a teaser for a $200 discount!
Scrutinize claims that are tied to financial gain indeed.
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Don't know why so many are getting hung up on the sales pitch. I just ignored it...0
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Don't know why so many are getting hung up on the sales pitch. I just ignored it...
they though? context is important, and it is literally the context for the entire article. He's not actually trying to get anybody to make better decisions based on the article itself. He's trying to convince them that with HIS paid help he can get you to make better decisions.5 -
Don't know why so many are getting hung up on the sales pitch. I just ignored it...
they though? context is important, and it is literally the context for the entire article. He's not actually trying to get anybody to make better decisions based on the article itself. He's trying to convince them that with HIS paid help he can get you to make better decisions.
I have no affiliation or ties to PN, that said it is one of the leading diet and nutrition companies out there because it doesn't push a diet or gimmick or anything like that. They are based completely on science and use the best and latest research available. Much of their system is focused on helping people to sustainably change their habits so that they can be successful in the long term, not just about what they are eating. Mock it all you want, they are a leading authority.6 -
Don't know why so many are getting hung up on the sales pitch. I just ignored it...
they though? context is important, and it is literally the context for the entire article. He's not actually trying to get anybody to make better decisions based on the article itself. He's trying to convince them that with HIS paid help he can get you to make better decisions.
I have no affiliation or ties to PN, that said it is one of the leading diet and nutrition companies out there because it doesn't push a diet or gimmick or anything like that. They are based completely on science and use the best and latest research available. Much of their system is focused on helping people to sustainably change their habits so that they can be successful in the long term, not just about what they are eating. Mock it all you want, they are a leading authority.
ok, but you understand that this same claim is made by pretty much every single weight loss company right? in pretty much identical terms even.10 -
Don't know why so many are getting hung up on the sales pitch. I just ignored it...
they though? context is important, and it is literally the context for the entire article. He's not actually trying to get anybody to make better decisions based on the article itself. He's trying to convince them that with HIS paid help he can get you to make better decisions.
I have no affiliation or ties to PN, that said it is one of the leading diet and nutrition companies out there because it doesn't push a diet or gimmick or anything like that. They are based completely on science and use the best and latest research available. Much of their system is focused on helping people to sustainably change their habits so that they can be successful in the long term, not just about what they are eating. Mock it all you want, they are a leading authority.
^^^This.
Why anyone would "woo" this is beyond me...6 -
Don't know why so many are getting hung up on the sales pitch. I just ignored it...
they though? context is important, and it is literally the context for the entire article. He's not actually trying to get anybody to make better decisions based on the article itself. He's trying to convince them that with HIS paid help he can get you to make better decisions.
I have no affiliation or ties to PN, that said it is one of the leading diet and nutrition companies out there because it doesn't push a diet or gimmick or anything like that. They are based completely on science and use the best and latest research available. Much of their system is focused on helping people to sustainably change their habits so that they can be successful in the long term, not just about what they are eating. Mock it all you want, they are a leading authority.
^^^This.
Why anyone would "woo" this is beyond me...
An observation- it seems that those who are disagreeing are low carbers. Perhaps that is influencing how the article is read?5 -
Don't know why so many are getting hung up on the sales pitch. I just ignored it...
they though? context is important, and it is literally the context for the entire article. He's not actually trying to get anybody to make better decisions based on the article itself. He's trying to convince them that with HIS paid help he can get you to make better decisions.
I have no affiliation or ties to PN, that said it is one of the leading diet and nutrition companies out there because it doesn't push a diet or gimmick or anything like that. They are based completely on science and use the best and latest research available. Much of their system is focused on helping people to sustainably change their habits so that they can be successful in the long term, not just about what they are eating. Mock it all you want, they are a leading authority.
^^^This.
Why anyone would "woo" this is beyond me...
woohoo?2 -
This is an ad. You have to start thinking of the motivation of the writer before you go off and believe anything online. This person wants your money. Keep that in mind. I tend to trust studies and authorities on health who are not trying to get me to spend on them.6
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This is an ad. You have to start thinking of the motivation of the writer before you go off and believe anything online. This person wants your money. Keep that in mind. I tend to trust studies and authorities on health who are not trying to get me to spend on them.
But do you disagree with any of the non-advertising points the author made?
I really think OP was just happy to see a mainstream nutrition post that suggested people stop "believing" in every new thing that comes down the pike and look at the preponderance of actual scientific evidence that has accumulated over time. Considering the 2 billion posts here about ACV and green tea and superfoods and detoxes and waist trainers etc that people learn about through blog posts like this one, it's nice to see someone trying to sell science <shrug>3 -
This is an ad. You have to start thinking of the motivation of the writer before you go off and believe anything online. This person wants your money. Keep that in mind. I tend to trust studies and authorities on health who are not trying to get me to spend on them.
But do you disagree with any of the non-advertising points the author made?
I really think OP was just happy to see a mainstream nutrition post that suggested people stop "believing" in every new thing that comes down the pike and look at the preponderance of actual scientific evidence that has accumulated over time. Considering the 2 billion posts here about ACV and green tea and superfoods and detoxes and waist trainers etc that people learn about through blog posts like this one, it's nice to see someone trying to sell science <shrug>
I think the problem is how dismissive the author is of anything that doesn't fit his particular model. He doesn't have a monopoly on nutrition science, there is no monopoly, there are a thousand different studies by a thousand different people that say a thousand different things. There's nothing about his particular system that makes it anymore rigorously "scientific" than what most companies are selling. Atkins, Keto, IF, or any other you can think up. Pick up any of the "pop" nutrition books he dismissed outright, you'll find them filled with references to scientific studies. Being backed up by "actual scientific evidence that has accumulated over time" is hardly a unique or meaningful claim.5 -
"Stop believing in every new thing that comes along" unless it has Precision Nutrition name on it. This is not science, not research, it's cherry picking "studies" to promote a product.8
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"Stop believing in every new thing that comes along" unless it has Precision Nutrition name on it. This is not science, not research, it's cherry picking "studies" to promote a product.
Agree! Almost every new thing comes with a good sales pitch claims that it's based on scientific research and studies. I could write an article and claim it's backed by scientific research as well... that doesn't mean it is. For that matter... I could start selling shakes and call myself a nutritional coach
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This is an ad. You have to start thinking of the motivation of the writer before you go off and believe anything online. This person wants your money. Keep that in mind. I tend to trust studies and authorities on health who are not trying to get me to spend on them.
But do you disagree with any of the non-advertising points the author made?
I really think OP was just happy to see a mainstream nutrition post that suggested people stop "believing" in every new thing that comes down the pike and look at the preponderance of actual scientific evidence that has accumulated over time. Considering the 2 billion posts here about ACV and green tea and superfoods and detoxes and waist trainers etc that people learn about through blog posts like this one, it's nice to see someone trying to sell science <shrug>
I think the problem is how dismissive the author is of anything that doesn't fit his particular model. He doesn't have a monopoly on nutrition science, there is no monopoly, there are a thousand different studies by a thousand different people that say a thousand different things. There's nothing about his particular system that makes it anymore rigorously "scientific" than what most companies are selling. Atkins, Keto, IF, or any other you can think up. Pick up any of the "pop" nutrition books he dismissed outright, you'll find them filled with references to scientific studies. Being backed up by "actual scientific evidence that has accumulated over time" is hardly a unique or meaningful claim.
I would respectfully disagree that all those diets have thousands of peer-reviewed scientific studies to back them up. I've seen plenty of diet books/websites link to studies and research that don't actually prove what they say they do, or to studies that have since been overturned by years of follow up research that disproved the assertion.
I'm not saying we should all print the OP article out and memorize it. I'm just surprised by the level of indignation the OP was met with. For a fluff piece leading into a sales pitch, I preferred it over most others I see.5 -
http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/10/the_healthiest_diet_proven_by_science.html
This article posits that the healthiest diet is no diet. That's turned out to be the most effective methodology for me when it come to eating."Science has not identified the healthiest way to eat. In fact, it has come as close as possible (because you can't prove a negative) to confirming that there is no such thing as the healthiest diet. To the contrary, science has established quite definitively that humans are able to thrive equally well on a variety of diets. Adaptability is the hallmark of man as eater. For us, many diets are good while none is perfect."6 -
I was expecting nutritional advice as a taster, not a prelude to, "join my certification scheme", without any idea of what you were letting yourself in for.
I'm someone who discovered vit b 12 with intrinsic factor made the world of difference to intolerances in my Hashimoto's Thyroiditis wrecked system and this was after I'd assiduously followed nutritional advice which was already making inroads to my issues but I'd still been lacking something. I support any move towards nutrition, particularly for those who are enzyme or microbially challenged, those who are in poor health for some reason, beyond the regularly available knowledge.
I wish I'd studied nutrition in the past, it would have been way more beneficial for me than taking business studies.
My beliefs are too way out for many on here who consider it all, woo. It is where the science is steadily leading those who are repeatedly failed by current medical practices. I'm not convinced this article does anything to hasten this progress.0 -
He had aome interesting thoughts but he lost credibility at the end.
the hilarious part?
#4 on his list of what to do next
4. Scrutinize claims that are tied to financial gain.
and #6?
6. Get qualified coaching.
If you don’t feel confident reading research or understanding the science, consider finding a Precision Nutrition Certified coach or enrolling in the Certification yourself.
hmmm
folllowed a pitch for his classes, and a teaser for a $200 discount!
Scrutinize claims that are tied to financial gain indeed.
These are not contradictory statements.
#4 says to "scrutinize" claims tied to financial gain. It does not say to dismiss them. It also goes on to explain what he means by "claims tied to financial gain" by offering examples of claims made by companies to get you to buy their product ("ripped abs in 1 minute), illustrating that he means if a company wants to sell you something to get ripped abs in 1 minute, you shouldn't hand over the cash until after you've scrutinized their claims (meaning you research for yourself to see if 1 minute abs are actually possible based on scientific research).
#6 makes the claim (tied to financial gain) that Precision Nutrition Certified coaches are qualified to help you understand the science of nutrition. I'm sure the author would agree that you should then indeed scrutinize this claim before handing over your money. Do research and verify whether Precision Nutrition Certified coaches are indeed qualified to help you understand the science of nutrition.
Scrutiny =/= rejection
Edited to add: Besides, even if these two points at the conclusion of the article were contradictory, would that invalidate the premise of the article, that nutritional theories should be built on a foundation of scientific research rather than on mere beliefs, what we want to be true or what sounds good? No. No it wouldn't.4 -
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater...7
This discussion has been closed.
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