Question: Sugar grams

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  • emailmehere1122
    emailmehere1122 Posts: 140 Member
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    I guess I was mistaken...I didn't know webmd was someone's opinion I thought it was medical fact. The op was asking about cutting back on sugar and people were saying even someone with diabetes doesn't need to worry about sugar which I thought was crazy but ok
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    I guess I was mistaken...I didn't know webmd was someone's opinion I thought it was medical fact. The op was asking about cutting back on sugar and people were saying even someone with diabetes doesn't need to worry about sugar which I thought was crazy but ok

    Yeah, unfortunately lots of these websites have blogs in addition to their health fact sheets. And the other thing you have to watch out for is that just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they are experts at everything health related. look at Dr, Oz - he is a brilliant cardiologist but he's ruined his good name by being uninformed about weight loss/nutrition!

    I can't speak about diabetes, I don't have it and I'm not a doctor.

    Mind you, I'm not saying eat all the sugar all the time :lol:, but if you are at your calorie goal, you'll lose weight, whether you ate 20g of sugar or 100g of sugar :cookie:
  • bpetrosky
    bpetrosky Posts: 3,911 Member
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    Hfcs can be 90% fructose and there is crystalline fructose. If you read the articles all the way through they all say fruits and vegetables aren't a concern but to watch your added sugars, especially fructose. If your liver is converting fructose into triglycerides and ldl cholesterol then why not be aware of that and limit added fructose...in hfcs and sucrose...especially if you have a poor lipid profile

    HFCS-90 is rarely used as-is, it's usually mixed down to a much lower ratio like 55/45. Crystalline fructose is often used for other properties than it's sweetness, as other forms of sugar are cheaper. So the sweetness in a product is primarily from sucrose or HFCS, and the crystalline fructose is used in a much smaller amount for a different reason. An average person is going to consume roughly equal amounts of fructose and glucose over the course of a day, almost never in isolation.

    The OP did not indicate she had any health problem that would suggest fructose was a problem. So the most reasonable advice would be to maintain a level of overall calories consistent with her goal, moderating her sugar intake within that goal as needed.

    Again, sugar in general and more recently fructose in particular have become the villains du jure. Mercola and Lusting have been flogging this theory and a number of agenda sites are generating a flood of scary sounding articles and blogs that are designed to be used as clickbait.
  • bpetrosky
    bpetrosky Posts: 3,911 Member
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    flatcoatedR wrote: »
    I pretty much have been watching my calories, carbs, and sugar grams. I'm quite large and have a lot of weight to lose. How many grams of sugar do all of you allow yourselves per day? I'm not sure how many I should be allowing myself to lose. Thank you.

    OP, as long as you're currently in good health metabolically, the main target you'll want to watch is your overall calories. You will lose weight if you do that, no matter the macro ratio.

    Make sure you are getting sufficient protein and fat, and the carbs (and sugars) can fill in the rest. Don't let a fear sugar prevent you from enjoying some fruit or even a sweet treat as long as it fits your calorie target.
  • emailmehere1122
    emailmehere1122 Posts: 140 Member
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    And you have decided these doctors and the American Heart Association are wrong to tell use to limit our added sugars based on what...someone else's webpages that you like better?
  • bpetrosky
    bpetrosky Posts: 3,911 Member
    edited August 2017
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    And you have decided these doctors and the American Heart Association are wrong to tell use to limit our added sugars based on what...someone else's webpages that you like better?

    Yes, I try to choose my sources carefully. Science news reporting is notoriously bad and a lot of blogs and agenda sites cherry pick sources to make their case.

    Again, I'll start off with this quote again from the article you posted. It's about context and dosage in the total diet.
    But Rippe says targeting one type of sugar or even one food as the main culprit in the rise in obesity and obesity-related disease misses the point.

    "We are eating too much of everything, not just sugar," he says. "Over the last three decades, the average American has increased their calorie consumption by 24% and physical activity has declined. People are singling out sugar as the one smoking gun in the obesity epidemic when there are guns everywhere."

    As I advised the OP previously, addressing her total calorie budget and the essentials first within that budget, she can decide what to do with the rest of her calories as desired. This is in line with the American Heart Association recommendation regarding discretionary calories:
    A person’s discretionary calorie budget varies depending on how physically active they are and how many calories they need to consume to meet their daily nutrient requirements. The American Heart Association recommends that no more than half of a person’s daily discretionary calorie allowance be spent on added sugars.

    Common sources of discretionary calories (in addition to added sugars) are fats, oils and alcohol. Fats are the most concentrated source of calories.

    Discretionary calories can be used to:

    Eat additional foods from a food group above your daily recommendation.
    Select a higher-calorie form of a food that’s higher in fat or contains added sugars (whole milk vs. skim or sweetened vs. unsweetened cereal).
    Add fats or sweeteners to the leanest versions of foods (for example, sauce, dressing and butter/margarine).
    Eat or drink items that are mostly fat, sugar or alcohol such as candy, cake, beer, wine or regular soda.

    http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/Nutrition/Sugar-101_UCM_306024_Article.jsp#.WaahnsiGOUk

    The AHA's guidelines are written for a general audience who are not using calorie counting as a tool. They're trying to thread a needle to get people to cut back on calories without cutting out fruits and other sources of sugars that are still nutritionally beneficial.

    You started off stating that you weren't afraid of sugar, then linking to an alarmist opinion piece written by an anti-sugar crusader. The point is to maintain a healthy weight, and the way to do that is to budget overall calories. Sugar, intrinsic or added, will fall into place when other needs are met.

  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »
    I don't eat anything that has more than 10 grams of added sugar. Yeay, fiber one bars fit. I never count sugars from natural foods.

    I don't care about sugar from an individual item, but total. Barely anything I eat has much added sugar, so if a few days a few I have ice cream (which is not my current pattern, but was for a while) with most of my added sugar in that one item, no biggie.

    Similarly, if I'm pretty low most days but have an occasional day (like a holiday or special event) where I'm way above my normal amount, fine with me.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    I don't know if Dr Mercola is a quack but how about
    Harvard health
    https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/is-fructose-bad-for-you-201104262425

    Mercola is a quack. The "Harvard" piece you looked is some guy wondering if there might be something to Lustig's ideas, not an actual recommendation from their site.

    It also does not say that added sugar in ANY amount or sugar overall (as in fruit) is something to worry about, and Lustig himself says don't worry about fruit.

    So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

    The Harvard site recommends that added sugar (as in sweets) be consumed sparingly, but doesn't fixate on sugar as the one and only thing to limit, and has a limit similar to the one from the WHO I mentioned above. That's more about overall healthful diet, and the site (sensibly, IMO) focuses much more on foods that should be included, and definitely recommends fruit. It does not recommend focusing on an overall sugar limit (vs. limiting non nutrient dense foods).

    Also, I think there'd be a difference if focusing on people with a specific use for the added sugar, like endurance athletes who consume it at such times and aren't risking going over calories. Lots of this advice assumes someone who needs to lose weight or is struggling to maintain or form healthy habits and is not logging.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    people were saying even someone with diabetes doesn't need to worry about sugar which I thought was crazy but ok

    That person was pointing out that what people with diabetes need to worry about is carbs (not never eating them, but moderating, eating them in balance with other foods, things like that), not specifically sugar, which is right -- someone with diabetes may find that fruit is not a problem at all, but that fast carbs of other sorts are (I have a friend who has T2D and tests and sees weird differences like rice is way worse than pasta, and for him fruit is fine).

    Maybe if you had responded to that person's post and asked for clarification you would better understand what she was saying.
  • emailmehere1122
    emailmehere1122 Posts: 140 Member
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    I wasn't going on...people were asking me why I singled out fructose, which I have explained as plainly as I can above. I don't recall saying tracking sugar helps one limit added sugar
    Here's another one you can get wound up about...if you drink milk and you vomit or have excess loose stools you might want to watch out for a sugar called lactose
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    I wasn't going on...people were asking me why I singled out fructose, which I have explained as plainly as I can above. I don't recall saying tracking sugar helps one limit added sugar
    Here's another one you can get wound up about...if you drink milk and you vomit or have excess loose stools you might want to watch out for a sugar called lactose

    whuh.gif
  • emailmehere1122
    emailmehere1122 Posts: 140 Member
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    And I am still shocked you don't have to look at sugar grams...I don't doubt you and I did leave out the word grams so excuse me for misquoting
    Congratulations on getting your diabetes into remission...hope you are sharing how you did that with the people that need to know
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited August 2017
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    I wasn't going on...people were asking me why I singled out fructose, which I have explained as plainly as I can above.

    Based on what appears to be a misunderstanding, namely that fructose is present in HFCS (55% fructose) in much higher percentages than in sucrose or fruit. (Although the added sugar I eat is basically all sucrose anyway, and as I said way above I do watch it, but the MFP sugar tracker includes ALL sugar, so is not the most useful way of doing that.)

    Also, while large doses of fructose (which someone eating a healthful overall diet does not have to worry about) are one of the things that can be harmful to the liver, that doesn't mean that fructose is bad and glucose is good (even if we ever consumed them separately, which we don't). Glucose causes the dreaded (joking) blood sugar spikes that people are always warning about, while fructose apparently does not (it has a low GI).
    I don't recall saying tracking sugar helps one limit added sugar

    You are claiming that the advice given has been bad advice. If you think a particular post is inaccurate, why not address it? Rather than generalizing inaccurately about the prior advice, that is.
    Here's another one you can get wound up about...if you drink milk and you vomit or have excess loose stools you might want to watch out for a sugar called lactose

    Yes, lactose intolerance is quite common, although less so with people of northern and western European backgrounds. That's hardly the same thing as going on about fructose being bad in any dose or claiming added sugar inherently has way more fructose than fruit, neither of which is true.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    I wasn't going on...people were asking me why I singled out fructose, which I have explained as plainly as I can above. I don't recall saying tracking sugar helps one limit added sugar
    Here's another one you can get wound up about...if you drink milk and you vomit or have excess loose stools you might want to watch out for a sugar called lactose

    Yes, some people are lactose intolerant. I have no idea how this is related to your claims about sugar or is even relevant to people who tolerate lactose well.
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
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    emailmehere1122 wrote: »
    And I am still shocked you don't have to look at sugar grams...I don't doubt you and I did leave out the word grams so excuse me for misquoting
    Congratulations on getting your diabetes into remission...hope you are sharing how you did that with the people that need to know

    That is one of many misconceptions about diabetes. It isn't all about sugar, it is about blood glucose. Carbs get turned into glucose for energy. Sugar (in all its forms) gets turned into glucose the fastest which is why those on insulin need to know the amount of total sugar in addition to carbs in general are in a meal so they can calculate how much insulin they need to prevent too high of a glucose spike. T2 diabetics not using insulin look more to averages rather than a single point in time. One spike isn't an issue. Prolonged average high numbers are an issue.

    Yes, I do mention how I am managing my diabetes whenever it can contribute to a conversation or answer questions. I keep below a maximum of 160 grams of carbs per day and I exercise (swimming laps 3 x a week and walking on the other days). Essentially, that is it. Losing weight has been the biggest contributor.

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