Cardio + Powerlifting
peaceout_aly
Posts: 2,018 Member
Hey ya'll! I've been training for powerlifting for a little over two years now with significant strength gain and physique changes. All summer I added in 30-45 minutes of cardio per day in order to get a little cut for bikini season. Recently, since I've only been in the gym 5 days per week versus 7 days per week I've made that 45-60 minutes of cardio per session. I'm still feeling strong and have energy, but I'm wondering if this cardio is detrimental to muscle or strength gain. What are your opinions? I would love to continue having abs (as long as I don't lose my butt) and I feel healthy and strong still, but when it comes time for a competition program I'm not sure it's something I should continue. Thoughts please!
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Well, as you do need a rest day to build muscle. As long as you continue with your lifting and are simply adding cardio for a cut, I see no issue with it.
Cardio ruining gains is broscience BS, it's when you stop lifting that you start losing muscle mass.2 -
VeronicaA76 wrote: »Well, as you do need a rest day to build muscle. As long as you continue with your lifting and are simply adding cardio for a cut, I see no issue with it.
Cardio ruining gains is broscience BS, it's when you stop lifting that you start losing muscle mass.
This.
Unless you are doing some silly crap like multiple runs per day, to the point where the cardio is starting to affect your recovery from the lifting, there's nothing to worry about. I think Wendler's views on it are pretty solid: pick one thing to focus most on (strength, conditioning, hypertrophy, etc.) and hit that hard, but don't let the others completely fall to the wayside either.
Balance is good. It's how we avoid becoming that guy who can deadlift 800, but couldn't run a mile or do a pullup if someone had a gun to his head, and gets winded walking up a flight of stairs.
Front burner vs. back burner and all.3 -
If you are training for a competition, you're going want to cut back on cardio as you get closer to the date. I've used Wendler's competition template, which has little to no cardio starting about a month or 2 out (I think).
My last comp was August 5th (won weight class and best female lifter!), I just started training heavy again and have added about 15-20 minutes on the arc-trainer. I'm also eating at a 100 calorie deficit to drop the few lbs I added during my competition training phase (mini-bulk). I'm down 3lbs already. Cardio isn't the only way to drop fat...you can manipulate calories, and experiment to figure out the right combo of cardio and calorie deficit for cutting.
I have found that I need less cardio to maintain my "weight" (fatness) as I've put on more muscle. I've also gotten better at bulking/cutting after a couple of rounds.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VeronicaA76 wrote: »Well, as you do need a rest day to build muscle. As long as you continue with your lifting and are simply adding cardio for a cut, I see no issue with it.
Cardio ruining gains is broscience BS, it's when you stop lifting that you start losing muscle mass.
This.
Unless you are doing some silly crap like multiple runs per day, to the point where the cardio is starting to affect your recovery from the lifting, there's nothing to worry about. I think Wendler's views on it are pretty solid: pick one thing to focus most on (strength, conditioning, hypertrophy, etc.) and hit that hard, but don't let the others completely fall to the wayside either.
Balance is good. It's how we avoid becoming that guy who can deadlift 800, but couldn't run a mile or do a pullup if someone had a gun to his head, and gets winded walking up a flight of stairs.
Front burner vs. back burner and all.
That's definitely my mind set but so many people are all or nothing with different aspects of fitness. I love power lifting but I want to be able to maintain a certain level of fitness with cardio as well, along with non-compound lifts. Thanks!1 -
Cardio can effect your energy level depending on the intensity. Something light, not a lot to worry about.
That being said, going into a meet, I wouldn't. You want to be optimal and those days of triple, doubles, and singles at high intensity can be grueling depending on the programming.
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting. He take "vitamins" and I can't think of more than one person in the powerlifting community that has won anything substantial raw and tested on his programming. He has a good fan boy base, but his programming is suboptimal. At least in the tested powerlifting world.4 -
I'm pretty sure you've posted previously about similar things and were told you need to eat more calories along with the suggestions above.3
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I'm pretty sure you've posted previously about similar things and were told you need to eat more calories along with the suggestions above.
That was 6 months ago before summer began and I took that advice and ate more. This question is not regarding weight gain, it's about if cardio is detrimental to muscle and strength growth or if that is all "bro science". If I didn't have energy, eating more would be a great suggestion but I eat a sufficient amount to back the length that I work out. I just want to know if cardio is *actually* depleting muscle growth and strength gains.1 -
Cardio can effect your energy level depending on the intensity. Something light, not a lot to worry about.
That being said, going into a meet, I wouldn't. You want to be optimal and those days of triple, doubles, and singles at high intensity can be grueling depending on the programming.
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting. He take "vitamins" and I can't think of more than one person in the powerlifting community that has won anything substantial raw and tested on his programming. He has a good fan boy base, but his programming is suboptimal. At least in the tested powerlifting world.
Perfect, so pre-meet I should cut back on cardio but in the off season cardio is acceptable as long as the energy is there. And I always wonder that about those who create these programs...does it work for you because it actually works or are you taking *supplements* that make the strength that is gained an exponentially greater amount?! LOL1 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »I'm pretty sure you've posted previously about similar things and were told you need to eat more calories along with the suggestions above.
That was 6 months ago before summer began and I took that advice and ate more. This question is not regarding weight gain, it's about if cardio is detrimental to muscle and strength growth or if that is all "bro science". If I didn't have energy, eating more would be a great suggestion but I eat a sufficient amount to back the length that I work out. I just want to know if cardio is *actually* depleting muscle growth and strength gains.
But we answered that before. If you are eating enough to fuel the running and the lifting you won't hurt your gains. We also suggested lifting before running to ensure you aren't going to hurt yourself.1 -
Cardio can effect your energy level depending on the intensity. Something light, not a lot to worry about.
That being said, going into a meet, I wouldn't. You want to be optimal and those days of triple, doubles, and singles at high intensity can be grueling depending on the programming.
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting. He take "vitamins" and I can't think of more than one person in the powerlifting community that has won anything substantial raw and tested on his programming. He has a good fan boy base, but his programming is suboptimal. At least in the tested powerlifting world.
True enough, but Jim also never claimed that much of his stuff was applicable to powerlifting (with the exeption of the 5/3/1 for Powerlifting book, which was actually very light on the conditioning work). It's far more applicable to things like team sports (football, rugby, etc.) and strongman/highland type athletes. I do know quite a few of the latter two who do pretty well and swear by 5/3/1, as it provides decent strength gains, while not being so demanding as to ruin sport specific training.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Cardio can effect your energy level depending on the intensity. Something light, not a lot to worry about.
That being said, going into a meet, I wouldn't. You want to be optimal and those days of triple, doubles, and singles at high intensity can be grueling depending on the programming.
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting. He take "vitamins" and I can't think of more than one person in the powerlifting community that has won anything substantial raw and tested on his programming. He has a good fan boy base, but his programming is suboptimal. At least in the tested powerlifting world.
True enough, but Jim also never claimed that much of his stuff was applicable to powerlifting (with the exeption of the 5/3/1 for Powerlifting book, which was actually very light on the conditioning work). It's far more applicable to things like team sports (football, rugby, etc.) and strongman/highland type athletes. I do know quite a few of the latter two who do pretty well and swear by 5/3/1, as it provides decent strength gains, while not being so demanding as to ruin sport specific training.
I concur
. Jim doesn't claim, but many people of his fan base/programing do and will be quick to suggest 5/3/1 as a optimal specifically toward powerlifting. It is decent at best. Hence why I said...
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting.
OP it might of been already said but cardio isn't going to eat into your muscle if nutrition is substantial. The problem with some cardio (running, swimming, etc) while training for a sport such as powerlifting is it can deplete your energy and possibly your recovery to lift at a higher intensity or frequency for adaptation to take place.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Cardio can effect your energy level depending on the intensity. Something light, not a lot to worry about.
That being said, going into a meet, I wouldn't. You want to be optimal and those days of triple, doubles, and singles at high intensity can be grueling depending on the programming.
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting. He take "vitamins" and I can't think of more than one person in the powerlifting community that has won anything substantial raw and tested on his programming. He has a good fan boy base, but his programming is suboptimal. At least in the tested powerlifting world.
True enough, but Jim also never claimed that much of his stuff was applicable to powerlifting (with the exeption of the 5/3/1 for Powerlifting book, which was actually very light on the conditioning work). It's far more applicable to things like team sports (football, rugby, etc.) and strongman/highland type athletes. I do know quite a few of the latter two who do pretty well and swear by 5/3/1, as it provides decent strength gains, while not being so demanding as to ruin sport specific training.
I concur. Jim doesn't claim, but many people of his fan base/programing do and will be quick to suggest 5/3/1 as a optimal specifically toward powerlifting. It is decent at best. Hence why I said...
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting.
OP it might of been already said but cardio isn't going to eat into your muscle if nutrition is substantial. The problem with some cardio (running, swimming, etc) while training for a sport such as powerlifting is it can deplete your energy and possibly your recovery to lift at a higher intensity or frequency for adaptation to take place.
Points taken. I learned a long time ago to actually read what authors write, instead of the pubbie interpretation, but I guess that a lot of "word of mouth" is still a problem.
I learned the lesson in a rather embarrassing way. Let's just say that because of forum goers and blog writers, I once believed that Rippetoe encouraged people to be wusses by spouting off overtraining nonsense. Nope; quite the opposite in fact. It was his loud fanboys who happened to also be wusses in the gym, and Rip was regularly telling them to sack the *kitten* up.2 -
I'm a competitive powerlifter and I'm also training for a spartan race its just about make sure you're not hindering your recover. Here's an awesome link about Kris Gethin who is an ifbb pro body builder training for a triathlon granted he's juiced to the gills but it's possible.
https://www.trainmag.com/fitness/kris-gethin-bodybuilder-to-triathlete/0 -
I know you don't want to discuss your calorie intake but it looks incredibly low and you never log any exercise therefore not compensating. It brings your net pretty low. I don't see how you can either make huge progress or prep for a meet when in such a large deficit. There's just not enough fuel.2
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VintageFeline wrote: »I know you don't want to discuss your calorie intake but it looks incredibly low and you never log any exercise therefore not compensating. It brings your net pretty low. I don't see how you can either make huge progress or prep for a meet when in such a large deficit. There's just not enough fuel.
I log my exercise every day and eat back a good portion of those calories. I'm 4'11" so 1,600 is technically a surplus for me. 1,300-1,500 is maintenance. 1,200 is deficit. And even if I'm not eating back enough throughout the week I definitely compensate on the weekends. I track every bite that enters my mouth and every minute of exercise.
I have enough energy and have made huge progress over the past two years by doing so, but as for prep for my next meet I am definitely going to take the advice that's been given and decrease cardio so that there are no adverse effects and that I can have optimal performance leading up to the meet and the day of.2 -
I'm a competitive powerlifter and I'm also training for a spartan race its just about make sure you're not hindering your recover. Here's an awesome link about Kris Gethin who is an ifbb pro body builder training for a triathlon granted he's juiced to the gills but it's possible.
https://www.trainmag.com/fitness/kris-gethin-bodybuilder-to-triathlete/
Yeah, I was also wondering about those who train for triathlons and still compete in powerlifting meets. That's why I really questioned the "bro science" theory.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Cardio can effect your energy level depending on the intensity. Something light, not a lot to worry about.
That being said, going into a meet, I wouldn't. You want to be optimal and those days of triple, doubles, and singles at high intensity can be grueling depending on the programming.
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting. He take "vitamins" and I can't think of more than one person in the powerlifting community that has won anything substantial raw and tested on his programming. He has a good fan boy base, but his programming is suboptimal. At least in the tested powerlifting world.
True enough, but Jim also never claimed that much of his stuff was applicable to powerlifting (with the exeption of the 5/3/1 for Powerlifting book, which was actually very light on the conditioning work). It's far more applicable to things like team sports (football, rugby, etc.) and strongman/highland type athletes. I do know quite a few of the latter two who do pretty well and swear by 5/3/1, as it provides decent strength gains, while not being so demanding as to ruin sport specific training.
I concur. Jim doesn't claim, but many people of his fan base/programing do and will be quick to suggest 5/3/1 as a optimal specifically toward powerlifting. It is decent at best. Hence why I said...
Also I wouldn't give too much thought on Wendler's opinion on things if you're focus is powerlifting.
OP it might of been already said but cardio isn't going to eat into your muscle if nutrition is substantial. The problem with some cardio (running, swimming, etc) while training for a sport such as powerlifting is it can deplete your energy and possibly your recovery to lift at a higher intensity or frequency for adaptation to take place.
Notes taken! Definitely decreasing cardio for meet prep. I know people say to cut it out completely, but I might just decrease it until a month out and then cut it out completely until meet day so I have optimal performance. On days that I don't do cardio I always feel restless and have trouble sleeping - too much energy for my body LOL1 -
deputy_randolph wrote: »If you are training for a competition, you're going want to cut back on cardio as you get closer to the date. I've used Wendler's competition template, which has little to no cardio starting about a month or 2 out (I think).
My last comp was August 5th (won weight class and best female lifter!), I just started training heavy again and have added about 15-20 minutes on the arc-trainer. I'm also eating at a 100 calorie deficit to drop the few lbs I added during my competition training phase (mini-bulk). I'm down 3lbs already. Cardio isn't the only way to drop fat...you can manipulate calories, and experiment to figure out the right combo of cardio and calorie deficit for cutting.
I have found that I need less cardio to maintain my "weight" (fatness) as I've put on more muscle. I've also gotten better at bulking/cutting after a couple of rounds.
This will be my second bulk/cut session (bulking from November through April and cutting beginning mid-April or early May). I learned a lot from my last bulk, didn't eat nearly enough (still made gains but not at the rate I wanted). I was also in the office last bulk and went through a hell of a roller coaster of moving place to place from November through February so I feel like my actual training was not optimal either. I'm excited for this year's bulk because I work from home and can really focus on getting those gym sessions in and using all that extra intake to crush my compound lifts.
Congratulations on the win by the way! That is amazing! How many competitions have you done? I did my first in July and had a blast - I didn't win but I hit PR's for DL and bench which is all I was hoping for.0 -
My trainer is both a competitive power lifter and competitive BMX rider (retired pro). He basically trains seasonally. He keeps up with cardio when he's power lifting training, but keeps it to some easy cycling and lite jogging...as he gets closer to an actual meet, he pretty much just walks and completely focuses on his lifting. Once lifting season is over, he goes back into BMX and road riding mode and he takes a break from heavy lifting to more moderate weights and reps with some heavy work thrown in from time to time...he starts ramping up the heavy lifting in the late fall/early winter for spring meets...1
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cwolfman13 wrote: »My trainer is both a competitive power lifter and competitive BMX rider (retired pro). He basically trains seasonally. He keeps up with cardio when he's power lifting training, but keeps it to some easy cycling and lite jogging...as he gets closer to an actual meet, he pretty much just walks and completely focuses on his lifting. Once lifting season is over, he goes back into BMX and road riding mode and he takes a break from heavy lifting to more moderate weights and reps with some heavy work thrown in from time to time...he starts ramping up the heavy lifting in the late fall/early winter for spring meets...
Oh wow, that's awesome to know. I always thought if I take a break from heavy lifting even for a short period that it would be difficult to get back into the swing of things and hit those same PR's again. It actually probably does the body good the way your trainer has his year scheduled. Gives the body time to heal from all the heavy lifting while still staying conditioned and keeping a competitive mindset. That's another reason I'm so about cardio AND lifting - I feel more motivated if I'm consistently improving either more reps, more weight, better form, or shaving off seconds when running.0 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »My trainer is both a competitive power lifter and competitive BMX rider (retired pro). He basically trains seasonally. He keeps up with cardio when he's power lifting training, but keeps it to some easy cycling and lite jogging...as he gets closer to an actual meet, he pretty much just walks and completely focuses on his lifting. Once lifting season is over, he goes back into BMX and road riding mode and he takes a break from heavy lifting to more moderate weights and reps with some heavy work thrown in from time to time...he starts ramping up the heavy lifting in the late fall/early winter for spring meets...
Oh wow, that's awesome to know. I always thought if I take a break from heavy lifting even for a short period that it would be difficult to get back into the swing of things and hit those same PR's again. It actually probably does the body good the way your trainer has his year scheduled. Gives the body time to heal from all the heavy lifting while still staying conditioned and keeping a competitive mindset. That's another reason I'm so about cardio AND lifting - I feel more motivated if I'm consistently improving either more reps, more weight, better form, or shaving off seconds when running.
It does do the body good and his philosophy is to not live in any one rep range all of the time. At the end of power lifting season, he's pretty beat up and needs the rest...in the off season, he works in a variety of rep ranges...at the end of the season he usually does a cycle or higher rep and lower weight to get some recovery and then cycles through various rep ranges throughout the off season...he doesn't really concern himself with hitting PRs in the off season in the gym...the lifting off season is where he focuses on the track and his road bike.
He wants me to do a meet this spring, but I'm not too sure about it...I have a shoulder impingement that has been nagging me for months and I can't seem to get it fully worked out...as a result, my bench pretty much sucks and at 43 I don't know that my body will survive a whole season of power lifting...I just don't recover as fast anymore from heavy lifting...0 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »I'm a competitive powerlifter and I'm also training for a spartan race its just about make sure you're not hindering your recover. Here's an awesome link about Kris Gethin who is an ifbb pro body builder training for a triathlon granted he's juiced to the gills but it's possible.
https://www.trainmag.com/fitness/kris-gethin-bodybuilder-to-triathlete/
Yeah, I was also wondering about those who train for triathlons and still compete in powerlifting meets. That's why I really questioned the "bro science" theory.
Yeah he has a whole YouTube series on it if you want to check it out.0 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »I'm a competitive powerlifter and I'm also training for a spartan race its just about make sure you're not hindering your recover. Here's an awesome link about Kris Gethin who is an ifbb pro body builder training for a triathlon granted he's juiced to the gills but it's possible.
https://www.trainmag.com/fitness/kris-gethin-bodybuilder-to-triathlete/
Yeah, I was also wondering about those who train for triathlons and still compete in powerlifting meets. That's why I really questioned the "bro science" theory.
You'll definitely want to look up Alex Viada. He has a book "the hybrid athlete" and a whole company geared towards training people to perform at both ends of the spectrum.1
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