Gain muscle, reduce body fat
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I think most of you didn't read my whole post and just stuck with the first sentence. That's too bad. The point I was making is, if your goal is ONLY weight loss (disregard comp) then a diet is the only thing that matters eating less calories than you burn. HOWEVER, if you want to lift weights and gain muscle while losing fat (yes this is very possible and too boot lifting weights while losing fat is complimentary, not competing), granted the offset is NOT 1:1 and you need to eat more calories (most likely at maintenance) to not damage your body. You should focus less on weight and more on your comp because the scale will go slower. Does that make sense now?
Still nope. Maybe do a little reading over at BodyRecompostition?2 -
You guys say its impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? Please link me to your scientific evidence that this is so, or is it just bro-science brains convinced it's impossible? I mean my extensive panel work is showing my Muscle Mass has been going up and my percent body fat has been going down for awhile now, I must be a freak!
Also I've checked out BodyRecompostition before. He claims science based facts but just gives his opinion and tries to sell his book/products, pretty typical from an "expert". It's his way or nothing (so you buy his products). His over-use of the word diet, body shaming and absolutes (never, always) is evident throughout. Might want to try a more actual fact/science based information source that isn't out to sell you something.
Just to clarify, you can be in a slight hypo-caloric state and maintain a positive nitrogen balance for protein biosynthesis. Anyone that says you have to be in either a cut or a bulk is either taking steroids or just plain mis-informed.6 -
You guys say its impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? Please link me to your scientific evidence that this is so, or is it just bro-science brains convinced it's impossible? I mean my extensive panel work is showing my Muscle Mass has been going up and my percent body fat has been going down for awhile now, I must be a freak!
Also I've checked out BodyRecompostition before. He claims science based facts but just gives his opinion and tries to sell his book/products, pretty typical from an "expert". It's his way or nothing (so you buy his products). His over-use of the word diet, body shaming and absolutes (never, always) is evident throughout. Might want to try a more actual fact/science based information source that isn't out to sell you something.
Just to clarify, you can be in a slight hypo-caloric state and maintain a positive nitrogen balance for protein biosynthesis. Anyone that says you have to be in either a cut or a bulk is either taking steroids or just plain mis-informed.
Lol for categorizing Lyle as bro-science. Noobs, obese, formerly trained people coming back after a long break, and enhanced lifters are able to overcome the adaptive training stimulus and simultaneously build muscle and lose fat in a deficit.
No one is disputing the fact that noob gains are real while on a deficit. Anyone in the intermediate and advanced lifter genre is going to have a difficult time since most of their muscles have adapted to adequate loads and the potential for muscle growth starts tapering off, negating any effects of muscle gain while in a deficit. Thus, bulk and cut cycles become a necessary thing. Why? Because muscles become efficient at loaded movement and generating more adaptive stimulus is going to require either an increase in load, volume, or frequency. Therefore, since increased output is necessary to handle increased stimulus, increased energy is going to be necessary. When you've dieted down to a level of leanness that can only handle a certain weight effectively, at a new lower weight, what do you think happens when you bump up calories? It becomes maintenance or a surplus, depending on the increase.
On any surplus, fat gain is going to happen. To shed the fat you built on a surplus, you have to cut. All the while lifting heavy is going to be a priority to either build or retain lean muscle. If you consider yourself experienced beyond a novice lifter, you should know that maintaining a positive net nitrogen balance is going to be difficult on a deficit and training relatively heavy. You know what kind of experienced lifters can still maximize muscle growth on a cut/deficit? Steroid users. I'd include extreme outliers with all the right genetic gifts, but they're rare enough that it's not worth including since most of them should be getting scouted into professional sports. For everyone else, drugs help.5 -
My argument was purely that you CAN gain muscle and lose fat at the same time as the title of the post is "Gain muscle, reduce body fat." Pointing out extreme examples of people 4-5 sigma from the mean isn't going to change that fact.4
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I think most of you didn't read my whole post and just stuck with the first sentence. That's too bad. The point I was making is, if your goal is ONLY weight loss (disregard comp) then a diet is the only thing that matters eating less calories than you burn. HOWEVER, if you want to lift weights and gain muscle while losing fat (yes this is very possible and too boot lifting weights while losing fat is complimentary, not competing), granted the offset is NOT 1:1 and you need to eat more calories (most likely at maintenance) to not damage your body. You should focus less on weight and more on your comp because the scale will go slower. Does that make sense now?
What you are describing is body recomposition, which is a fairly long process. If the immediate goal is fat loss, a deficit is more ideal and more aligned to the OPs goals. Whether or not the OP is going to gain muscle is driving by a lot of factors and really doesn't matter all the much unless the OP plans on getting multiple dexa scans.
OP, set a moderate deficit (~15 to 20% below maintenance), have protein around 160 to 180g per day and get on a well structured lifting routine. Play with fats and carbs for satiety and compliance. And most importantly, dont over think it too much.2 -
I agree psuLemon, well said.0
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You guys say its impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? Please link me to your scientific evidence that this is so, or is it just bro-science brains convinced it's impossible? I mean my extensive panel work is showing my Muscle Mass has been going up and my percent body fat has been going down for awhile now, I must be a freak!
Also I've checked out BodyRecompostition before. He claims science based facts but just gives his opinion and tries to sell his book/products, pretty typical from an "expert". It's his way or nothing (so you buy his products). His over-use of the word diet, body shaming and absolutes (never, always) is evident throughout. Might want to try a more actual fact/science based information source that isn't out to sell you something.
Just to clarify, you can be in a slight hypo-caloric state and maintain a positive nitrogen balance for protein biosynthesis. Anyone that says you have to be in either a cut or a bulk is either taking steroids or just plain mis-informed.
How are you measuring your body fat and lean mass?
And LOL at trying to discredit Lyle.3 -
You guys say its impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? Please link me to your scientific evidence that this is so, or is it just bro-science brains convinced it's impossible? I mean my extensive panel work is showing my Muscle Mass has been going up and my percent body fat has been going down for awhile now, I must be a freak!
Also I've checked out BodyRecompostition before. He claims science based facts but just gives his opinion and tries to sell his book/products, pretty typical from an "expert". It's his way or nothing (so you buy his products). His over-use of the word diet, body shaming and absolutes (never, always) is evident throughout. Might want to try a more actual fact/science based information source that isn't out to sell you something.
Just to clarify, you can be in a slight hypo-caloric state and maintain a positive nitrogen balance for protein biosynthesis. Anyone that says you have to be in either a cut or a bulk is either taking steroids or just plain mis-informed.
Methinks you don't know what complimentary means.
Complimentary = it aids each other.
The fact that you can't gain as much muscle in a deficit as in a surplus shows it doesn't, you even had to specify slight deficit because you seem to be perfectly aware of the fact that an actual deficit for losing weight before the next ice age is not going to result in muscle gains.4 -
You guys say its impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time? Please link me to your scientific evidence that this is so, or is it just bro-science brains convinced it's impossible? I mean my extensive panel work is showing my Muscle Mass has been going up and my percent body fat has been going down for awhile now, I must be a freak!
Also I've checked out BodyRecompostition before. He claims science based facts but just gives his opinion and tries to sell his book/products, pretty typical from an "expert". It's his way or nothing (so you buy his products). His over-use of the word diet, body shaming and absolutes (never, always) is evident throughout. Might want to try a more actual fact/science based information source that isn't out to sell you something.
Just to clarify, you can be in a slight hypo-caloric state and maintain a positive nitrogen balance for protein biosynthesis. Anyone that says you have to be in either a cut or a bulk is either taking steroids or just plain mis-informed.
Slandering Lyle McDonald and posting terrible advice. Good work!5 -
My argument was YOU CAN lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. The science/evidence proves this. Plugging in an extreme example of why I'm still correct makes your bro-science look silly.5
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Honestly want to know how you're measuring your fat loss and lean mass gains.1
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My argument was YOU CAN lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. The science/evidence proves this. Plugging in an extreme example of why I'm still correct makes your bro-science look silly.
You internet really well, I'll give you that. You realize that your statement IS part of the extreme example of simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss while on a deficit, yes?
Muscle gain = anabolic
Fat loss = catabolic
This is irrefutable.
OP is a novice (an extreme) on the scale of experience, where his experience with macro tracking is just starting, and his stated 6 weeks of poor training dealing with an injury (another extreme example) would put him in a position of being able to fit the factors for simultaneously gaining muscle and losing fat in a deficit.
Once he has adequately adapted beyond that initial phase and attains a level of satisfactory body compositon, with appropriate programming he will become an experienced/intermediate gym-goer where he will be among the 80% of trained individuals under the area of the curve and will have to follow phases of bulking and cutting to build muscle and shed fat, respectively. It is this majority area from where most of us "bro-science" people (nice ad-hominem there, btw) are speaking.
I don't see any extremes that lie within a majority. By definition, they wouldn't be there.
FYI I haven't purchased a thing from Lyle and it's completely unnecessary to do so since his literal thousands of posts over the decades pretty much amount to free information. On top of that, Lyle isn't the only credible source of information that supports this notion. Anyone with an understanding of biochemistry and physiological adaptation regarding hypertrophy and body composition (pick your favorite unbiased physique competitor) will tell you the same. At the same time, I don't know anyone who has put dedicated time and effort into this field as a career and hasn't tried to receive some kind of compensation for it. So... who are *you* getting your information from that they also don't sell products on the side/gain monetary value on top of giving information?5 -
Again the bro-science team is out here spewing nonsense. My argument was YOU CAN lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. The science/evidence proves this. Plugging in an extreme example of why I'm still correct makes your bro-science look silly. Your lord savior Lyle McDonald does have sound advise, be sure to buy his new book on how to do it for only $40! Get real.
You internet really well, I'll give you that. You realize that your statement IS part of the extreme example of simultaneous muscle gain and fat loss while on a deficit, yes?
Muscle gain = anabolic
Fat loss = catabolic
This is irrefutable.
OP is a novice (an extreme) on the scale of experience, where his experience with macro tracking is just starting, and his stated 6 weeks of poor training dealing with an injury (another extreme example) would put him in a position of being able to fit the factors for simultaneously gaining muscle and losing fat in a deficit.
Once he has adequately adapted beyond that initial phase and attains a level of satisfactory body compositon, with appropriate programming he will become an experienced/intermediate gym-goer where he will be among the 80% of trained individuals under the area of the curve and will have to follow phases of bulking and cutting to build muscle and shed fat, respectively. It is this majority area from where most of us "bro-science" people (nice ad-hominem there, btw) are speaking.
I don't see any extremes that lie within a majority. By definition, they wouldn't be there.
FYI I haven't purchased a thing from Lyle and it's completely unnecessary to do so since his literal thousands of posts over the decades pretty much amount to free information. On top of that, Lyle isn't the only credible source of information that supports this notion. Anyone with an understanding of biochemistry and physiological adaptation regarding hypertrophy and body composition (pick your favorite unbiased physique competitor) will tell you the same. At the same time, I don't know anyone who has put dedicated time and effort into this field as a career and hasn't tried to receive some kind of compensation for it. So... who are *you* getting your information from that they also don't sell products on the side/gain monetary value on top of giving information?
QFT and all around awesomeness!1
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