What is your take on Saturated Fats and Cholesterol from red meats, dairy etc...

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  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    The answer to this is simple for me. I have familial hypercholesterolemia. I limit fats and saturated fats. Since I'm a vegetarian, it's pretty easy for me to do this. Most of my sat fat comes from dairy.
  • Lillymoo01
    Lillymoo01 Posts: 2,865 Member
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    I personally like to keep my saturated fats within daily recommendations while getting more fats from polysaturated and monosaturated fats. I certainly don't see saturated fat as being the evil it once was considered to be but have found that this way of eating works best for me. I'd much prefer to go low fat milk and greek yogurt if it gives me enough calories for a handful of almonds at the end of the day.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited September 2017
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    johnwelk wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    Saturated fats appear to be perfectly healthy. I think the latest study, the PURE study, found that higher rates of saturated fat intake were not associated with a higher risk of mortality.
    Umm... No. That's not what the PURE study found. The study basically comes down to this:
    People from poor countries have poor diets and poor healthcare, therefore are sicker and have higher rates mortality. This study changes nothing.

    Either:
    (1) you read the study and didn't understand it
    Or
    (2) didn't bother to read the study and just regurgitated something from one of your favorite keto propaganda websites
    Or
    (3) your being intellectually dishonest again and purposely trying to mislead people and hoping no one will notice.

    Just for fun, what was the highest % of calories from saturated fat in the PURE study, what was the average and what are the current WHO recommendations for sat fat intake?

    Also, saturated fat is not perfectly healthy:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26068959
    Now vegetable oils? Not so good...
    Do you have any misinterpreted data to support this?

    I think you may be over reacting. Just a bit.

    The PURE study definitely looked at those with poorer diets. Poorer diets are often lower in animal products and higher in refined foods. It may be a coincidence. It may not.

    But it also stated that higher saturated fats (and not even that high - not ketogenic) do not raise mortality. Those who were eating higher saturated fats often had a lower mortality.

    I believe the PURE study's highest saturated fat was around 18%. I don't remember the average. Higher saturated fats were not associated with increased mortality. The WHO and the ADA have recommendations of 10% and 6%, although I may have mixed them up.

    The link you included was hardly definitive. This is from your link:
    There was some evidence that reducing saturated fats reduced the risk of myocardial infarction (fatal and non-fatal, RR 0.90; 95% CI 0.80 to 1.01; 11 trials, 53,167 participants), but evidence for non-fatal myocardial infarction (RR 0.95; 95% CI 0.80 to 1.13; 9 trials, 52,834 participants) was unclear and there were no clear effects on stroke (any stroke, RR 1.00; 95% CI 0.89 to 1.12; 8 trials, 50,952 participants).

    And yes, it appears that vegetable oils are less healthy than saturated fats. High levels of omega 6s from highly processed vegetable oils do not appear to be all that healthy. Safflower, soy and corn oils are what I am talking about here. Foods you would not normally associate with fats and oils.

    My misinterpreted date: ;)
    http://www.cmaj.ca/content/186/6/434.full

    Avocado, olive or nut oils are healthier non animal fat sources than vegetable oils. Coconut oil too, but that is the king of saturated fats from plants.
  • amarskhy
    amarskhy Posts: 7 Member
    edited September 2017
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    capaul42 wrote: »
    As someone who distrusts 90% of everything I read online, I eat just as much red meat and bacon as I ever did. My cholesterol levels are perfect. A lot of its scare mongering in my opinion. Much like every other time in history they've labelled a food as bad, only to turn around later and say they were wrong.

    I agree here. When I was doing a "low fat low carb diet" my blood sugar and cholesterol were way out of whack. That's because everything low fat has tons of hidden sugar and artificial sugar/chemicals. After trying it the traditional way and failing over and over again, I started researching nutrition. I found out through trials and error that a low sugar/carb with higher fat diet not only made me lose more weight quicker, but my blood sugar went back to normal. My insulin response was increased and brought my cholesterol levels back to normal range. I haven't had any adverse effects since. Sugar feeds fat cells while cholesterol repairs damage to arteries. Who would have thought?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    amarskhy wrote: »
    capaul42 wrote: »
    As someone who distrusts 90% of everything I read online, I eat just as much red meat and bacon as I ever did. My cholesterol levels are perfect. A lot of its scare mongering in my opinion. Much like every other time in history they've labelled a food as bad, only to turn around later and say they were wrong.

    I agree here. When I was doing a "low fat low carb diet" my blood sugar and cholesterol were way out of whack.

    Other than as a short term super low cal for those who need to lose weight fast (super obese), low fat and low carb is rarely recommended, so I'm not surprised.
    That's because everything low fat has tons of hidden sugar and artificial sugar/chemicals.

    Um, no, it doesn't, and if you were doing low carb too presumably you would have been avoiding those that do.

    First, no sugar is hidden, it's on the label. Claiming it's hidden is a way of denying agency.

    Second, some common low fat foods without added sugar (that I'd expect to be focused on if someone claims to be trying to do it for health -- I starred the ones that are also going to work okay on low carb, not many): *lean meats like chicken breast (no skin), turkey (same), white fish, tuna, lean cuts of pork and beef, game; *egg whites; *black soybeans and other soybean based foods like tofu; *all non starchy vegetables; beans and lentils; potatoes and sweet potatoes; fruit; skim dairy products; pasta and other grain-based foods like oats and couscous and barley. I could easily go on.

    NO added sugar.

    I personally do like a somewhat higher fat diet (although I still watch sat fat some and try to get more of my fat from non animal sources, especially, as well as from fatty fish), but the claim that if you eat low fat you eat lots of added sugar or that it's bad for everyone is just wrong. People differ on what works for them and many do well on low fat (I've done fine on low fat at times too, as when experimenting with cutting out animal products entirely, but I find that for me I feel more satisfied on higher fat -- I just don't assume all are the same).
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    Aren't avocado, olive, and nut oils vegetable oils? Color me confused.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Aren't avocado, olive, and nut oils vegetable oils? Color me confused.

    I thought that was odd too. Maybe they don't consider fruit and nut oils to be 'vegetable oil'??

    But then I thought much of that post was nonsense.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    amarskhy wrote: »
    capaul42 wrote: »
    As someone who distrusts 90% of everything I read online, I eat just as much red meat and bacon as I ever did. My cholesterol levels are perfect. A lot of its scare mongering in my opinion. Much like every other time in history they've labelled a food as bad, only to turn around later and say they were wrong.

    I agree here. When I was doing a "low fat low carb diet" my blood sugar and cholesterol were way out of whack.

    Other than as a short term super low cal for those who need to lose weight fast (super obese), low fat and low carb is rarely recommended, so I'm not surprised.
    That's because everything low fat has tons of hidden sugar and artificial sugar/chemicals.

    Um, no, it doesn't, and if you were doing low carb too presumably you would have been avoiding those that do.

    First, no sugar is hidden, it's on the label. Claiming it's hidden is a way of denying agency.

    Second, some common low fat foods without added sugar (that I'd expect to be focused on if someone claims to be trying to do it for health -- I starred the ones that are also going to work okay on low carb, not many): *lean meats like chicken breast (no skin), turkey (same), white fish, tuna, lean cuts of pork and beef, game; *egg whites; *black soybeans and other soybean based foods like tofu; *all non starchy vegetables; beans and lentils; potatoes and sweet potatoes; fruit; skim dairy products; pasta and other grain-based foods like oats and couscous and barley. I could easily go on.

    NO added sugar.

    I personally do like a somewhat higher fat diet (although I still watch sat fat some and try to get more of my fat from non animal sources, especially, as well as from fatty fish), but the claim that if you eat low fat you eat lots of added sugar or that it's bad for everyone is just wrong. People differ on what works for them and many do well on low fat (I've done fine on low fat at times too, as when experimenting with cutting out animal products entirely, but I find that for me I feel more satisfied on higher fat -- I just don't assume all are the same).

    Since I'm a person who eats low fat for health, I, like you, find the argument that my diet is by nature higher in sugar absurd on the face of it unless you assume I'm eating a poor diet.

    Even my non-fat cheese has the following ingredients (yes, sacrilege, I like the stuff):
    Nonfat Mozzarella Cheese [Pasteurized Skim Milk, Cheese Culture, Salt, Enzymes, Yeast (Ingredient Not in Regular Mozzarella Cheese), Artificial Color, Vitamin A Palmitate], Potato Starch, Cellulose Powder and Calcium Sulfate Added to Prevent Caking, Natamycin (a Natural Mold Inhibitor).

    No sugar. A few "chemicals", and the day I worry about a trace amount of artificial color is the day I start fashioning tin foil hats for myself.

    I eat 2% plain yogurt. No added sugar. The only things I eat that have added sugar are breakfast cereals, and I expect them to have added sugar. I read the ingredient labels.

    Saying that, the vast amount of sugar in my diet comes from fruit and vegetables.

    I can't, for my health, eat a high fat diet. I don't, by preference, eat a lot of sugar, but I certainly eat some. I'm definitely not getting it "hidden" in any of the low-fat products I use.

  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
    edited September 2017
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    I'm all about balance and moderation. I eat more fish and chicken than red meat...but I still eat red meat and my dairy consumption is moderate. I tend to go with the current guidelines which isn't to eliminate saturated fat, but to keep saturated fat at or below the recommended level which I do for the most part and I try to get more MUFA and PUFA from things like nuts, avocados, etc...

    You don't want to eliminate Saturated fat completely as some saturated fats are essential for production of certain hormones like testosterone. Dietary cholesterol has been shown to not really have much if any impact on blood serum levels...your liver makes more than you could possible eat and most dietary cholesterol is esterified and can't be absorbed.

    Personally, I believe the leading causes for high cholesterol are 1) genetics; 2) lack of regular exercise; 3) too many highly processed/refined carbohydrates and free sugars; 4) not enough whole foods, particularly fruits and vegetables and other fibrous foods like beans, lentils, oats, etc; 5) being overweight/obese. (not in any particular order, but I do think heredity/genetics plays a massive part).

    Basically eating the SAD (which is a really *kitten* diet) and not moving...
  • rsclause
    rsclause Posts: 3,103 Member
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    Sometime you are better off ignoring studies. I can remember switching from butter to margarine because margarine is so much better for you. I also know someone that has always eaten what I would call unhealthy foods all her life. She is 101 years old and lives alone. I try to get my fats from tree nuts, olive oil and veggies. I just take the viewpoint that I already know what is probably a food I should limit or avoid like french fries or doughnuts for example. Its not very scientific but I think it works for me. Saves a lot of research time too because you never know when that bus is going to hit you.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Aren't avocado, olive, and nut oils vegetable oils? Color me confused.

    No, those are not generally considered to be vegetable oils... Not sure why they aren't lumped in there too. They tend to be thought of separately for some reason. Like if a recipe called for a vegetable oil, very few people would go to olive oil. KWIM? Seems like vegetable oils are from plants that you would not normally associate with oil: soy, rapeseed, safflower, corn, etc.

    Technically olive and avocado oil could be thought of as fruit oils. ;)
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Aren't avocado, olive, and nut oils vegetable oils? Color me confused.

    No, those are not generally considered to be vegetable oils... Not sure why they aren't lumped in there too. They tend to be thought of separately for some reason. Like if a recipe called for a vegetable oil, very few people would go to olive oil. KWIM? Seems like vegetable oils are from plants that you would not normally associate with oil: soy, rapeseed, safflower, corn, etc.

    Technically olive and avocado oil could be thought of as fruit oils. ;)

    They aren't generally thought of as vegetable oils by whom?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    If a recipe called for vegetable oil I'd use olive oil, probably. It's my default oil. I might use avocado oil or coconut oil or even butter depending on what the flavor profile was and the cooking method -- I wouldn't think the kind of oil a recipe specified would matter that much, and those are the only oils I usually have on hand. (But then I don't follow recipes that often anyway, I get inspired by them.)
  • Old_Cat_Lady
    Old_Cat_Lady Posts: 1,193 Member
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    I'm still not going to eat sausage daily.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited September 2017
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    nvmomketo wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Aren't avocado, olive, and nut oils vegetable oils? Color me confused.

    No, those are not generally considered to be vegetable oils... Not sure why they aren't lumped in there too. They tend to be thought of separately for some reason. Like if a recipe called for a vegetable oil, very few people would go to olive oil. KWIM? Seems like vegetable oils are from plants that you would not normally associate with oil: soy, rapeseed, safflower, corn, etc.

    Technically olive and avocado oil could be thought of as fruit oils. ;)

    By whom? When I googled this, a woo site with scaremongering didn't consider them vegetable oils, but the Wikipedia page on vegetable oils considered everything from plants fair game.


    So what's "generally" in your books? I'd rather go with Wikipedia.

    If a recipe called for vegetable oil, I'd use olive oil. It's what I naturally think of as a vegetable oil and is my oil of choice.
  • _pi3_
    _pi3_ Posts: 2,311 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If a recipe called for vegetable oil I'd use olive oil, probably. It's my default oil. I might use avocado oil or coconut oil or even butter depending on what the flavor profile was and the cooking method -- I wouldn't think the kind of oil a recipe specified would matter that much, and those are the only oils I usually have on hand. (But then I don't follow recipes that often anyway, I get inspired by them.)

    Vegetable oil is vegetable oil
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    forward0backward wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If a recipe called for vegetable oil I'd use olive oil, probably. It's my default oil. I might use avocado oil or coconut oil or even butter depending on what the flavor profile was and the cooking method -- I wouldn't think the kind of oil a recipe specified would matter that much, and those are the only oils I usually have on hand. (But then I don't follow recipes that often anyway, I get inspired by them.)

    Vegetable oil is vegetable oil

    Why is that tagged onto my comment (and isn't what people understand by "vegetable oil" under discussion)?
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    forward0backward wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    If a recipe called for vegetable oil I'd use olive oil, probably. It's my default oil. I might use avocado oil or coconut oil or even butter depending on what the flavor profile was and the cooking method -- I wouldn't think the kind of oil a recipe specified would matter that much, and those are the only oils I usually have on hand. (But then I don't follow recipes that often anyway, I get inspired by them.)

    Vegetable oil is vegetable oil

    Why is that tagged onto my comment (and isn't what people understand by "vegetable oil" under discussion)?

    I would wager that discussion would only happen on MFP. LOL
  • jdlobb
    jdlobb Posts: 1,232 Member
    edited September 2017
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    i don't know how people can substitute vegetable oil for olive oil in a recipe. They taste completely different and behave completely differently when cooking.

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