Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Things that affect CICO
Ainadan
Posts: 158 Member
Ok, so an assumption that I wanted to start out with is that calories-in, calories-out (CICO) is the only way to lose weight. This is not up for debate in this thread. However, I wanted to discuss things that may make a difference in either the CI side or the CO side and help an individual lose weight.
For instance: More sleep leads to more energy which means you may workout or move around more, which increases in calories out.
Or: If you eat healthier foods you are more satiated on fewer calories, so you eat less (fewer calories in.)
What are some things that you think affect weightloss because they may affect CICO?
Note, this doesn't mean that any of these things are universal, because again, CICO is what actually changes things, but I've noticed people have some things which help them achieve their calorie and activity goals.
For instance: More sleep leads to more energy which means you may workout or move around more, which increases in calories out.
Or: If you eat healthier foods you are more satiated on fewer calories, so you eat less (fewer calories in.)
What are some things that you think affect weightloss because they may affect CICO?
Note, this doesn't mean that any of these things are universal, because again, CICO is what actually changes things, but I've noticed people have some things which help them achieve their calorie and activity goals.
7
Replies
-
Stay active not just with your body but also with your mind, boredom tends to lead to overeating.14
-
I think drinking my 7 glasses of water per day and staying hydrated helps with my CICO. Perhaps allowing for more efficient use of calories.
I know that there is not universal agreement on good calories versus bad calories with respect to CICO. This being said, for me, I believe that some foods are harder to digest and process the calories and thus have an impact on CICO and weight loss.13 -
lessismoreohio wrote: »I think drinking my 7 glasses of water per day and staying hydrated helps with my CICO. Perhaps allowing for more efficient use of calories.
I know that there is not universal agreement on good calories versus bad calories with respect to CICO. This being said, for me, I believe that some foods are harder to digest and process the calories and thus have an impact on CICO and weight loss.
If a food is harder to digest, then it will have a higher TEF and will have a positive impact on weight loss. It's what so funny when people (not you) say that fast food is hard to digest. IF that were true, then fast food would aid in weight loss. Reality is that the impact of "harder to digest" foods is minimal. Yes chicken has a higher TEF than pasta, but in a well rounded diet the difference is not enough to consider.11 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »lessismoreohio wrote: »I think drinking my 7 glasses of water per day and staying hydrated helps with my CICO. Perhaps allowing for more efficient use of calories.
I know that there is not universal agreement on good calories versus bad calories with respect to CICO. This being said, for me, I believe that some foods are harder to digest and process the calories and thus have an impact on CICO and weight loss.
If a food is harder to digest, then it will have a higher TEF and will have a positive impact on weight loss. It's what so funny when people (not you) say that fast food is hard to digest. IF that were true, then fast food would aid in weight loss. Reality is that the impact of "harder to digest" foods is minimal. Yes chicken has a higher TEF than pasta, but in a well rounded diet the difference is not enough to consider.
Thank you for this insight.0 -
Basically engage in activities that aid metabolism and life. Keep active, stay hydrated, get enough sleep, eat a variety of foods.
CICO is the simple underlying concept. The difficult part is building a routine utilizing this concept in a way that ensures your goals will be achieved. Most people mimic someone else's routine, but make changes to adapt to personal differences.6 -
I find fatty foods to be more filling and carb heavy foods to make me hungry, so for me personally eating a higher fat, lower carb, diet helps me meet my CICO goal. I tried to work a "normal" amount of carbs back into my diet and it was a disaster.
I think it's about finding what works for you.17 -
Hypothyroidism can have a pretty significant impact on CO. Many GI ailments can impact CI via malabsorption.5
-
Autoimmune issues or poor health can affect things. Eating for energy or affected appetite, malabsorption, nutrient deficiencies, poor sleep, lack of energy (less movement), affected hormones... poor health, even if not an autoimmune issue can make losing harder for me.
Food choices. For me carbs cause hunger, fat and protein are satiating.
Also in food choices, some foods will lower CI or raise calories out due to the type. Protein is more thermogenic than fat which is more thermogenic than carbs. Those with insulin resistance may have hormones that affect fat loss or storage and appetite, so choosing lower carbs may help with that.
Some supplements will affect CO in small ways, such as caffeine. Small is the key word there.
Activity and exercise will increase CO. No question there.
Stress and fatigue. Seems to lower CO a bit.
Gender. Dammit.
Size and age, although age seems to be partially affected by healthy and activity; menopause too.
Proper hydration and electrolytes will probably have a small impact on CO and CI.
Meal timing might make a small difference for some people - probably mainly those with IR issues too.4 -
CI:
For me, not snacking, eating 2-3 meals. I just eat way less and feel more satisfied than if I graze or even eat planned snacks.
Coffee (takes the place of a desire to snack on a weak day).
Sleep and exercise (takes away the desire to eat to wake up and helps with emotional/stress eating).
Having somewhat more fat as a percentage of calories, lots of vegetables, and protein, and meals that I really enjoy make it easier for me to feel satisfied on less.
CO:
Walking everywhere I can and trying to get up regularly. (Not too hard for me since I am in a city.)
Getting in exercise as part of my commute -- biking to and from work, occasionally running home (I have a backpack for this purpose), if all else fails, walking to a train station farther from my office on my way home or getting off early to walk some.5 -
Autoimmune issues or poor health can affect things. Eating for energy or affected appetite, malabsorption, nutrient deficiencies, poor sleep, lack of energy (less movement), affected hormones... poor health, even if not an autoimmune issue can make losing harder for me.
Food choices. For me carbs cause hunger, fat and protein are satiating.
Also in food choices, some foods will lower CI or raise calories out due to the type. Protein is more thermogenic than fat which is more thermogenic than carbs. Those with insulin resistance may have hormones that affect fat loss or storage and appetite, so choosing lower carbs may help with that.
Some supplements will affect CO in small ways, such as caffeine. Small is the key word there.
Activity and exercise will increase CO. No question there.
Stress and fatigue. Seems to lower CO a bit.
Gender. Dammit.
Size and age, although age seems to be partially affected by healthy and activity; menopause too.
Proper hydration and electrolytes will probably have a small impact on CO and CI.
Meal timing might make a small difference for some people - probably mainly those with IR issues too.
Carbs are more thermogenic that fats. The breakdown is protein is 20 to 25%, carbs are 5 to 6%, and fats are 2 to 3%.
Diets high in fiber and protein tend to have the greatest satiety on most people, which makes compliance much easier. But ultimately, things that increase EE are protein (minimally), muscle (4 to 6 calories a day, but can have an impact if enough is gains), exercise calories, and changes to NEAT. So if you get out of your desk more, park further away, etc, you will see increase to EE.
Also, you can help reduce impacts to EE with things like resistance training (helps sustain muscle) and occasional diet breaks; although for the latter, it's been awhile since I have seen some good data on that. I can definitely help with compliance.4 -
Autoimmune issues or poor health can affect things. Eating for energy or affected appetite, malabsorption, nutrient deficiencies, poor sleep, lack of energy (less movement), affected hormones... poor health, even if not an autoimmune issue can make losing harder for me.
Food choices. For me carbs cause hunger, fat and protein are satiating.
Also in food choices, some foods will lower CI or raise calories out due to the type. Protein is more thermogenic than fat which is more thermogenic than carbs. Those with insulin resistance may have hormones that affect fat loss or storage and appetite, so choosing lower carbs may help with that.
Some supplements will affect CO in small ways, such as caffeine. Small is the key word there.
Activity and exercise will increase CO. No question there.
Stress and fatigue. Seems to lower CO a bit.
Gender. Dammit.
Size and age, although age seems to be partially affected by healthy and activity; menopause too.
Proper hydration and electrolytes will probably have a small impact on CO and CI.
Meal timing might make a small difference for some people - probably mainly those with IR issues too.
I'm in agreement with this, but want to add additional insight.
One of the root causes of disagreements on this site is "Where are you in your fitness journey?" (I make no apologies for using "journey")
The needs of someone at 30% are going to be quite different from someone at <10%.
If you're at >30% body fat you just need to focus on the basics and that really doesn't move beyond calories in and calories out.
If you're more athletic and >10% body fat then those little things become bigger things. You've already mastered the foundational skills of managing CICO.
Satiation is one of those key elements - very personal, unique, and will change as your behavior changes.
Lean muscle mass is the primary driver of metabolism - use this to your advantage.
Age isn't much of a factor, other than relation to diminished activity and loss of muscle mass.
Hydration is more of a healthy habit and just another part of a successful routine. Timing your drinking prior to mealtimes is one that I found early success with getting my portions under control and determining the difference between hunger and appetite.7 -
I think the following impact:
under eating impacts CO.
The nutrient value of the foods as well. I have more energy on days I've eaten nutrient dense foods. CO and CI
Mental place..if you aren't ready to do this you will obsess over food and what you think you can't have..
For example people who eat a VLCD won't have the energy to move as much and those who aren't satisfied will search for more food
2 -
I took this as a question of what could be hidden causes of making CICO not seem correct.
I believe cortisol from stress can keep the body in fat storage mode alot despite being in a deficit. Medicines like antidepressants seem to have a weird effect on weight gain. I personally have not been able to lose any weight since June despite being in a deficit and suffering horribly. I lowered my calories and eventually crashed due to lack of energy.13 -
Autoimmune issues or poor health can affect things. Eating for energy or affected appetite, malabsorption, nutrient deficiencies, poor sleep, lack of energy (less movement), affected hormones... poor health, even if not an autoimmune issue can make losing harder for me.
Food choices. For me carbs cause hunger, fat and protein are satiating.
Also in food choices, some foods will lower CI or raise calories out due to the type. Protein is more thermogenic than fat which is more thermogenic than carbs. Those with insulin resistance may have hormones that affect fat loss or storage and appetite, so choosing lower carbs may help with that.
Some supplements will affect CO in small ways, such as caffeine. Small is the key word there.
Activity and exercise will increase CO. No question there.
Stress and fatigue. Seems to lower CO a bit.
Gender. Dammit.
Size and age, although age seems to be partially affected by healthy and activity; menopause too.
Proper hydration and electrolytes will probably have a small impact on CO and CI.
Meal timing might make a small difference for some people - probably mainly those with IR issues too.
Carbs are more thermogenic that fats. The breakdown is protein is 20 to 25%, carbs are 5 to 6%, and fats are 2 to 3%.
My mistake. Thank you.
2 -
I find working out helps me stay on track with my calories because it changes the way I think about myself. I tend to think I worked too hard at the gym to eat that donut and me a healthier choice which keeps me in my calorie goals5
-
I took this as a question of what could be hidden causes of making CICO not seem correct.
I believe cortisol from stress can keep the body in fat storage mode alot despite being in a deficit. Medicines like antidepressants seem to have a weird effect on weight gain. I personally have not been able to lose any weight since June despite being in a deficit and suffering horribly. I lowered my calories and eventually crashed due to lack of energy.
Cortisol can affect CO. If you gain or maintain weight, you aren’t in a deficit. You just think you are.5 -
PCOS lowers your BMR, sometimes by hundreds of calories.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/186783723 -
Exercise for me is essential to keeping a deficit, it gives me more energy so I do more during the day. I'm lucky in that my response to exercise is either less appetite, or at least no increase in appetite0
-
lessismoreohio wrote: »I think drinking my 7 glasses of water per day and staying hydrated helps with my CICO. Perhaps allowing for more efficient use of calories.
I know that there is not universal agreement on good calories versus bad calories with respect to CICO. This being said, for me, I believe that some foods are harder to digest and process the calories and thus have an impact on CICO and weight loss.
It also means more trips to the bathroom and thus more walking.3 -
Intermittent fasting is the major influence in determining my CI ... just by avoiding a morning breakfast gives me a 300-400 buffer for the rest of the day. If someone brings birthday cakes in to the office, I can join in ... if I get to the end of the day I can either bank the calories or enjoy a dessert that I wouldn’t normally have8
-
Hey for all the women out their, I read that 30 minutes of sex burns 500 calories!15
-
Men you can thank me later!11
-
-
CI to a fat cell and CO of a fat cell is a better equation of fat accumulation in a fat cell. Not all excess calories make it to fat cells and it takes more calories out of a fat cell to produce an equivalent calorie of work the body can do (there are waste heat calories also). CI the mouth and CO of the body due to work is a worst case estimate of CI a fat cell and CO of a fat cell so if you go by CI the mouth and CO out of the body, you will lose at least as much or more than that deficit. Many things effect how much of excess cals make it to fat cells and how much waste heat there will be. Many things also influence hunger which plays a big role in eventually our CI.19
-
-
CI to a fat cell and CO of a fat cell is a better equation of fat accumulation in a fat cell. Not all excess calories make it to fat cells and it takes more calories out of a fat cell to produce an equivalent calorie of work the body can do (there are waste heat calories also). CI the mouth and CO of the body due to work is a worst case estimate of CI a fat cell and CO of a fat cell so if you go by CI the mouth and CO out of the body, you will lose at least as much or more than that deficit. Many things effect how much of excess cals make it to fat cells and how much waste heat there will be. Many things also influence hunger which plays a big role in eventually our CI.
My standard reply is that science is aware of what you think it isn't. You don't know what CICO is.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2266991/7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »CI to a fat cell and CO of a fat cell is a better equation of fat accumulation in a fat cell. Not all excess calories make it to fat cells and it takes more calories out of a fat cell to produce an equivalent calorie of work the body can do (there are waste heat calories also). CI the mouth and CO of the body due to work is a worst case estimate of CI a fat cell and CO of a fat cell so if you go by CI the mouth and CO out of the body, you will lose at least as much or more than that deficit. Many things effect how much of excess cals make it to fat cells and how much waste heat there will be. Many things also influence hunger which plays a big role in eventually our CI.
My standard reply is that science is aware of what you think it isn't. You don't know what CICO is.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2266991/
I think you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm sure science knows the macro terms for energy in and out of the body (food in, waste heat, work, and excretion out). What I'm claiming is that a lot of people here only think food in (without taking into account type, quantity, timing, etc..) and work (without taking into account type, rate, etc..) effect CICO. That is plainly not true.15 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »CI to a fat cell and CO of a fat cell is a better equation of fat accumulation in a fat cell. Not all excess calories make it to fat cells and it takes more calories out of a fat cell to produce an equivalent calorie of work the body can do (there are waste heat calories also). CI the mouth and CO of the body due to work is a worst case estimate of CI a fat cell and CO of a fat cell so if you go by CI the mouth and CO out of the body, you will lose at least as much or more than that deficit. Many things effect how much of excess cals make it to fat cells and how much waste heat there will be. Many things also influence hunger which plays a big role in eventually our CI.
My standard reply is that science is aware of what you think it isn't. You don't know what CICO is.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2266991/
I think you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm sure science knows the macro terms for energy in and out of the body (food in, waste heat, work, and excretion out). What I'm claiming is that a lot of people here only think food in (without taking into account type, quantity, timing, etc..) and work (without taking into account type, rate, etc..) effect CICO. That is plainly not true.
Except they don't, it's just not worth worrying about because there's no practical application to be made from that knowledge. THAT'S the point we're trying to make and the one you want to ignore because......I don't even know why.10 -
-
VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »CI to a fat cell and CO of a fat cell is a better equation of fat accumulation in a fat cell. Not all excess calories make it to fat cells and it takes more calories out of a fat cell to produce an equivalent calorie of work the body can do (there are waste heat calories also). CI the mouth and CO of the body due to work is a worst case estimate of CI a fat cell and CO of a fat cell so if you go by CI the mouth and CO out of the body, you will lose at least as much or more than that deficit. Many things effect how much of excess cals make it to fat cells and how much waste heat there will be. Many things also influence hunger which plays a big role in eventually our CI.
My standard reply is that science is aware of what you think it isn't. You don't know what CICO is.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2266991/
I think you don't understand what I'm saying. I'm sure science knows the macro terms for energy in and out of the body (food in, waste heat, work, and excretion out). What I'm claiming is that a lot of people here only think food in (without taking into account type, quantity, timing, etc..) and work (without taking into account type, rate, etc..) effect CICO. That is plainly not true.
Except they don't, it's just not worth worrying about because there's no practical application to be made from that knowledge. THAT'S the point we're trying to make and the one you want to ignore because......I don't even know why.
That is not true.12
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions