80/20 training

Jthanmyfitnesspal

Anyone else interested in it? Anyone else reading or following "80/20 Running" by Matt Fitzgerald?

Happy_Goat

I read it. It makes some good arguments. But I don't think one school of training is right for everyone.

lporter229

Read it a few years back and started following the concept for building base mileage. Prior to reading that book, a sub 4 marathon would have been a scary goal. I started the base building in May and ran a 3:52:34 in January, using the level 2 marathon training plan in the book. 9 months later I qualified for Boston with a 3:38:26. Using a heart rate monitor to manage the 80% was a hard concept at the start, but I have to say that I am glad I stuck with it because it paid off big.

ETA: Of course, there was also a lot of pretty grueling and disciplined training that went in there too.

DX2JX2

There's no right plan for everyone but I do run an 80/20 split on my weekly miles. That said, I'm not training for anything specific (running for fitness and fun) and am still at a stage where my running still gets a huge benefit from additional mileage volume regardless of effort. The only reason I actually do any kind of speed work is to mix things up a bit and because it's fun.

There's a big difference between specific training and exercise for fitness. I'd argue that cardio for fitness can actually be done 100% easy should one choose to do so. Specific training with a specific performance goal in mind is a different story altogether...I don't have enough experience to speak to that.

Djproulx

Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »

Anyone else interested in it? Anyone else reading or following "80/20 Running" by Matt Fitzgerald?

I have not read 80/20, but I have read Fitzgerald's "Racing Weight: Getting Lean for Peak Performance". In that book, he touches on the 80/20 concept. Joe Friel also suggests a high ratio of recovery paced vs speed training in his book, "Fast after 50". Friel goes into significant detail around the middle aged(and older) athletes' need for more recovery time in order to be ready to really push during the quality workouts.

This approach has been effective in my training over the last 5 years. During this time, I have worked with both a running coach and now a triathlon coach. Both of them advocated and built my training plans around this concept. Given my primary interest in longer events, (Half/Full Iron distances) my training builds are fairly long and volume can be significant. My run coach would set up training weeks to include 3 or 4 easy paced (Z2 HR) runs and either 1 or 2 higher intensity runs. My tri coach applies the same logic. For example, during our normal HIM builds, we do 9 or 10 sessions per week( done in 7 days). A typical week would consist of 1 high intensity run and 1high intensity bike workout, with the other 7-8 sessions(swim/bike/run) performed at a recovery pace. The whole goal is to allow athletes to build both threshold improvments and endurance, while minimizing the risk of injury and symptoms of overtraining. As @lporter229 noted, I also found it hard to just " go slow" at first, but the payoff has been there for me at both short and longer distances.

Jthanmyfitnesspal

Thanks @Djproulx for the pointer to "Fast after 50." Sounds like a good book for me.

NorthCascades

Have not read the book but I tend to be if the same philosophy. Base fitness, lots of volume, moderate intensity.

Djproulx

Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »

Thanks @Djproulx for the pointer to "Fast after 50." Sounds like a good book for me.

He starts by describing the growing set of physical challenges facing us as we age. But the payoff comes in his discussion of how athletes are racing strong well into their 60s and 70's by adjusting their training approach to allow them to continue to push hard and maintain speed.

Its worth a read if you're a training geek like me.

spiriteagle99

I haven't read the books, but as an older runner, I try to keep most of my runs easy with only one day a week of faster more intense running. I'm also more interested in endurance events than speed. I'll never be fast, I just need to finish, hopefully with a smile on my face.

Jthanmyfitnesspal

NorthCascades wrote: »

Have not read the book but I tend to be if the same philosophy. Base fitness, lots of volume, moderate intensity.

I have gone back to training in swim, ride, run for the past few years (running only for about the last year and a half). My philosophy has been to "go as hard as possible" every time. This limits how long you can go for and certainly reduces the enjoyment of the workout. Also, I have plateaued in cycling or swimming. In running, I have gone from no capability to being able to run a ~27 minute 5k, over the past 1.5 years or so. I'd love to shave 3-4 more minutes off that and also to run longer distances more easily. (I can do a 10k, but it kills me.)

I'm hoping that a change in training approach will help. I have to say that I like the way the 80/20 approach sounds, with mostly easier workouts.

MeanderingMammal

Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »

Anyone else interested in it? Anyone else reading or following "80/20 Running" by Matt Fitzgerald?

Given that I pointed you at it, I've read it. It's consistent with most other mainstream coaching philosophies and underpins the coaching training in the Leader in Running Fitness and Coach in Running Fitness qualifications delivered under the remit of English Athletics, the Fell Running Association and the Trail Running Association.

For me it's worked reasonably well, although most of my training is aimed at longer distances. I think I identified in another thread that for me the sweet spot for short distance improvement was training for my first Half, at about 30 miles per week, with only 6 of those being a speed session.

It is challenging to ease the pace back.

NorthCascades

Yesterday I did a 20 minute MMP test, it was tough, today I'm going out for the love of riding a bicycle on a sunny day. As long as possible, but no real goal except enjoyment. A zone 2 ride in other words. A lot of people call them junk miles, but if I only take 20 minute power tests, I'm going to be real fast for 20 minutes and then get tired out. If I only do 5 minute hill repeats, I'll be able to climb 5 minute hills. Moderate stress for long times is how you build and maintain endurance.

For what it's worth, I think the "training effect" feature in modern Garmins and Suuntos does a pretty good job of identifying when you've satisfied the 20 %. There's a saying that most people go too hard on their easy days and too easy on their hard days.

Djproulx

spiriteagle99 wrote: »

I haven't read the books, but as an older runner, I try to keep most of my runs easy with only one day a week of faster more intense running. I'm also more interested in endurance events than speed. I'll never be fast, I just need to finish, hopefully with a smile on my face.

Assuming 5 runs a week, you are an 80/20 runner!

I'm following this at the moment as well. Tonight was a track workout, (20x400's), so the rest of my runs this week will be at a recovery pace, including my long run on Saturday.

Jthanmyfitnesspal

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Given that I pointed you at it, I've read it.

Totally true. I ran out and borrowed the audiobook from the library.

lporter229

NorthCascades wrote: »

There's a saying that most people go too hard on their easy days and too easy on their hard days.

This is so true. From a training perspective, I think a big part of the value from the 80/20 rule comes from really crushing it on that 20%. You can only do this if you take it easy enough on the other 80%. Pretty much the summary of the whole book.

Djproulx

lporter229 wrote: »

NorthCascades wrote: »

There's a saying that most people go too hard on their easy days and too easy on their hard days.

This is so true. From a training perspective, I think a big part of the value from the 80/20 rule comes from really crushing it on that 20%. You can only do this if you take it easy enough on the other 80%. Pretty much the summary of the whole book.

^^^ Exactly.

Jthanmyfitnesspal

Djproulx wrote: »

lporter229 wrote: »

NorthCascades wrote: »

There's a saying that most people go too hard on their easy days and too easy on their hard days.

This is so true. From a training perspective, I think a big part of the value from the 80/20 rule comes from really crushing it on that 20%. You can only do this if you take it easy enough on the other 80%. Pretty much the summary of the whole book.

^^^ Exactly.

There are a couple of other pro tips. One is to use cross training to take the stress off the joints. I like that suggestion because I already do it.

An unexpected tip is the endorsement of ElliptiGo bikes. I thought those were of interest only for non-athletes, but apparently not!