Any seasoned marathon runners? Newbie marathon training question

AmyOutOfControl

I have a marathon training question for anyone who has run a marathon. I am running my first half marathon on 10/28 and my first full on 12/10. I started with the half training plan and switched to the full training plan around 6 weeks ago.

I'm currently following the MapMyRun marathon training plan. My longest run to date has been 16 miles. The plan I am currently following has me doing my longest 20 mile training run the day I am scheduled to run my 1/2 marathon (on 10/28). Obviously, that is not happening. I was going to do it the week after (on 11/3), however, the ladies in my running group tell me the longest run should be three weeks out from the race. This would make my longest run on 11/19. Thoughts?

Upcoming Races:
10/28 = Hill Country Halloween Half Marathon
11/23 = Georgetown Turkey Trot
12/10 = BCS Marathon
1/6/18 = River Road Run Half Marathon

lporter229

It's hard to say without knowing the details of your plan. Personally, I think that 3 weeks out is too close to the race. I would suggest 4 or even 5. Can you share the details of what you plan looks like for long runs? That would make it easier to offer suggestions on how to arrange it. Also, the big question centers around your half marathon goal. Are you planning to run it at a faster than normal pace or are you treating it as a training run? If you are racing it, I think you will find that you will need at least a week in between your half and your 20 mile run.

bendyourkneekatie

Every training plan I've ever seen has the longest training run 3 weeks out and a 3 week taper. Sometimes 2 weeks but I think that's usually more experienced runners.
Basically you want to hit the peak of your training as close to the marathon as you can in order to benefit from it while still leaving enough time to recover and be fresh on the day. Tapering well can be the most important part of training: too much and you risk being undercooked, too little and you risk tired legs etc.
Also be prepared that doing another half less than a month after your first full might not be much fun. You may still just be getting your legs back at that point.

MeanderingMammal

If your plan only has you on one 20 miler I'd personally suggest leaving it in as planned, perhaps adding 7 miles after your HM. If you leave it a week then you're more likely to compromise your preparation for the race. I'm comfortable with a two week taper but I've run five full marathons, including a back to back, and three ultras so my training is quite bespoke.

You could bring it forward a week without too much trouble.

spiriteagle99

The Hal Higdon plans have a 20 miler 3 weeks out from the marathon. If you really race your HM (which you should because it is a good way to figure out your marathon pace) you probably won't have energy to do 7 miles afterwards, especially since it's your first. I intended to do that (run 5-7 after my HM) while preparing for my first marathon, and I was exhausted after the race. What I did was run 20 a few days after the half when I had recovered. But my overall mileage was fairly high and the long run that week was only 12 or 13. It wasn't a great run, but I did get it done. I doubt anybody would recommend that though for a new runner. You'd do better to just do it on 11/3.

And I agree with bendyourknee, it can take several weeks to recover from a marathon.

rybo

I would do the longest run 3 weeks out. If you had an extremely high MPW training load, then maybe doing it farther out might help, but nearly all programs have 3 week tapers. I hated tapering that long and moved to a 2 week taper after my first.

AmyOutOfControl

Thanks everyone. Most of the advice I have gotten seems to point to doing my longest run 3 weeks out. I am planning on racing the 1/2 so will not be running more miles after. The people in my running group tell me I over trained for the half (and then convinced me sign up for the full in December). I am running 40-50 MPW right now. Switching training plans half way through has thrown me off.

@lporter229 The rest of my MapMyRun plan look like this:

• Week of 10/8= Sun 16; Mon 8.5; Wed 7.5 (tempo); Thurs 7; Fri 7
• Week of 10/15= Sun 14; Mon 8.5; Wed 8.5 (tempo); Thurs 7; Fri 7
• Week of 10/22= Sun 16; Mon 8.5; Wed 12 min test (run 30 minutes - 12 at max pace); Thurs 7; Sat (1/2 marathon)
• Week of 10/29= Sun (it has me running 20 here but considering moving to later week); Mon 7; Wed 12 (with fast intervals); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/5= Sun 13; Mon 7; Wed 9 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/12= Sun 17.5(considering doing 20 here); Mon 7; Wed 8.5 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/19= Sun 13; Mon 7; Wed 9 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/26= Sun 9.5; Mon 5; Wed 6.5 (with speed intervals); Thurs 4; Fri 4
• Week of 12/3= Sun 7; Mon 4.5; Wed 3.5; Fri 2.5
• Sunday 12/10= marathon

@bendyourkneekatie I expect to be pretty cooked after the marathon. I am running the other 1/2 in January to support a friend. She does run/walk intervals so it will be fairly slow/easy.

MeanderingMammal

amymoreorless wrote: »

• Week of 10/8= Sun 16; Mon 8.5; Wed 7.5 (tempo); Thurs 7; Fri 7
• Week of 10/15= Sun 14; Mon 8.5; Wed 8.5 (tempo); Thurs 7; Fri 7
• Week of 10/22= Sun 16; Mon 8.5; Wed 12 min test (run 30 minutes - 12 at max pace); Thurs 7; Sat (1/2 marathon)
• Week of 10/29= Sun (it has me running 20 here but considering moving to later week); Mon 7; Wed 12 (with fast intervals); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/5= Sun 13; Mon 7; Wed 9 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/12= Sun 17.5(considering doing 20 here); Mon 7; Wed 8.5 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/19= Sun 13; Mon 7; Wed 9 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/26= Sun 9.5; Mon 5; Wed 6.5 (with speed intervals); Thurs 4; Fri 4
• Week of 12/3= Sun 7; Mon 4.5; Wed 3.5; Fri 2.5
• Sunday 12/10= marathon

Sorry, I misunderstood your sequence earlier, but I'm still of a similar view.

Personally I'd sub the 20 for one of the 13s, rather than the 17. You're a little short on long runs so it would be unwise to forsake that opportunity.

Given your plan to race the HM you may need to take the Sunday for a 5K recovery run, dump the Monday and maybe moderate the Wednesday to an easy paced session. Give yourself an opportunity to recover to avoid disrupting your later training.

collectingblues

Since you plan to race the HM, are you doing any sort of taper leading to that? I know for me -- and a half is the longest I do -- I try to time it so that my last long run is 10 days before a race where I plan to go all out.

curlsintherack

run your half give yourself a week then do your 20. Having fumbled my way through my first marathon about a month ago my legs were fine about 3-4 days after the marathon and I've been prepping for a half on 10/14 ever since.

spiriteagle99

Generally when the half is part of marathon training, and essentially a test to work out marathon pace, there isn't much taper. The idea is to see how you do when you are somewhat tired. Tapering for the HM is actually counter-productive. Even so, with all the extra mileage that goes with marathon training, a lot of us end up with PRs at the HM anyway.

rybo

amymoreorless wrote: »

Thanks everyone. Most of the advice I have gotten seems to point to doing my longest run 3 weeks out. I am planning on racing the 1/2 so will not be running more miles after. The people in my running group tell me I over trained for the half (and then convinced me sign up for the full in December). I am running 40-50 MPW right now. Switching training plans half way through has thrown me off.

@lporter229 The rest of my MapMyRun plan look like this:

• Week of 10/8= Sun 16; Mon 8.5; Wed 7.5 (tempo); Thurs 7; Fri 7
• Week of 10/15= Sun 14; Mon 8.5; Wed 8.5 (tempo); Thurs 7; Fri 7
• Week of 10/22= Sun 16; Mon 8.5; Wed 12 min test (run 30 minutes - 12 at max pace); Thurs 7; Sat (1/2 marathon)
• Week of 10/29= Sun (recovery run from half, easy); Mon 7; Wed 12 (with fast intervals); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/5= Sun 20; Mon 7; Wed 9 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/12= Sun 13; Mon 7; Wed 8.5 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/19= Sun 20; Mon 7; Wed 9 (tempo); Thurs 5.5; Fri 5.5
• Week of 11/26= Sun 9.5; Mon 5; Wed 6.5 (with speed intervals); Thurs 4; Fri 4
• Week of 12/3= Sun 7; Mon 4.5; Wed 3.5; Fri 2.5
• Sunday 12/10= marathon

@bendyourkneekatie I expect to be pretty cooked after the marathon. I am running the other 1/2 in January to support a friend. She does run/walk intervals so it will be fairly slow/easy.

Given this schedule, and your solid MPW I would suggest the mileage I have in bold. If you want to do 18 for the 1st "20" I have, that's ok too. But I think you can handle 20.