5k training pace vs race pace help?
Lizzypb88
Posts: 367 Member
I know I have another question, but I want to ask because it's more simple...
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?
For example, if I do my runs comfortably at 13:30min/mile, my race pace should be 11:30min/mile?
I'm wondering if that's not accurate because I was unable to keep at that pace after a little more than a mile...
Also if I just finished my 5k in 38:37, what is a "realistic" goal time for a 5k in 2 months for me to aim for?
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?
For example, if I do my runs comfortably at 13:30min/mile, my race pace should be 11:30min/mile?
I'm wondering if that's not accurate because I was unable to keep at that pace after a little more than a mile...
Also if I just finished my 5k in 38:37, what is a "realistic" goal time for a 5k in 2 months for me to aim for?
0
Replies
-
One way to figure this out is what Jeff Galloway calls the “magic mile.” Run a mile or two with the amount of effort you would utilize in a race and calculate from there. It’s usually not a good idea to calculate race pace based on training runs alone because of not knowing how your body will react to increased effort and other new factors at race time (adrenaline causing you to speed out too quickly and later crashing). That isn’t to say that in the end the estimation isn’t correct, but I wouldn’t base a goal on it without some form of race effort to base my data off of.
Once you have that data, then yes, most of your training runs should be slower. But no one can tell you for sure what a realistic improvement would be. Some people progress very quickly at running, some do not. As long as you’re seeing some form of improvement, that’s progress. If you’re not after a couple of months, then it’s time to look at your training habits.0 -
vespiquenn wrote: »One way to figure this out is what Jeff Galloway calls the “magic mile.” Run a mile or two with the amount of effort you would utilize in a race and calculate from there. It’s usually not a good idea to calculate race pace based on training runs alone because of not knowing how your body will react to increased effort and other new factors at race time (adrenaline causing you to speed out too quickly and later crashing). That isn’t to say that in the end the estimation isn’t correct, but I wouldn’t base a goal on it without some form of race effort to base my data off of.
Once you have that data, then yes, most of your training runs should be slower. But no one can tell you for sure what a realistic improvement would be. Some people progress very quickly at running, some do not. As long as you’re seeing some form of improvement, that’s progress.
I ran a 5k today. My 5k race average min/mile trying my hardest was 12:24/mile, so I'm trying to figure out how fast I should go when doing normal runs to at least build up my stamina, how much slower should I be running when I train?0 -
vespiquenn wrote: »One way to figure this out is what Jeff Galloway calls the “magic mile.” Run a mile or two with the amount of effort you would utilize in a race and calculate from there. It’s usually not a good idea to calculate race pace based on training runs alone because of not knowing how your body will react to increased effort and other new factors at race time (adrenaline causing you to speed out too quickly and later crashing). That isn’t to say that in the end the estimation isn’t correct, but I wouldn’t base a goal on it without some form of race effort to base my data off of.
Once you have that data, then yes, most of your training runs should be slower. But no one can tell you for sure what a realistic improvement would be. Some people progress very quickly at running, some do not. As long as you’re seeing some form of improvement, that’s progress.
My 5k race average min/mile trying my hardest was 12:24/mile, so I'm trying to figure out how fast I should go when doing normal runs to at least build up my stamina
If you were trying your hardest, then no, your race pace is not to 11:30 yet. So your runs should be around the ~13:30-14:30min/mi range for most your training. Stamina first, speed later.
3 -
To answer your second question. More time on your feet means faster 5Ks, at least if you are just starting out running. Generally, as a body becomes accustomed to running over the course of a year most people see PR's by just getting out of the door.4
-
I know I have another question, but I want to ask because it's more simple...
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?
I've just answered your other threads, but essentially the logic is sound. If you can establish your forecast race pace, the majority of your training volume should be undertaken more slowly. The proportion depends on your race distance.
The challenge for many runners, myself included, is that the training pace can feel too slow. Getting the training value depends on disciplining oneself to run at that pace. It doesn't hold true that the pace one is comfortable training at points to the preferred race pace, because one might be training too quickly.
It also depends on how much training volume, and how the plan is structured. As an example my forecast 5K time is 20:15. That would need me to be running about 50-60 miles per week, aimed at 5K performance improvement. My actual 5K PB is 24:25, and with most of my training being aimed at marathon and ultra running I'm not doing the type of work that will improve that.
1 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »I know I have another question, but I want to ask because it's more simple...
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?
I've just answered your other threads, but essentially the logic is sound. If you can establish your forecast race pace, the majority of your training volume should be undertaken more slowly. The proportion depends on your race distance.
The challenge for many runners, myself included, is that the training pace can feel too slow. Getting the training value depends on disciplining oneself to run at that pace. It doesn't hold true that the pace one is comfortable training at points to the preferred race pace, because one might be training too quickly.
It also depends on how much training volume, and how the plan is structured. As an example my forecast 5K time is 20:15. That would need me to be running about 50-60 miles per week, aimed at 5K performance improvement. My actual 5K PB is 24:25, and with most of my training being aimed at marathon and ultra running I'm not doing the type of work that will improve that.
What's a realistic goal then for my next 5k so I don't get ahead of myself? If I run 13min miles comfortably, what's a good goal to hope for in the next couple months with adding a 3rd day a week? What should my race pace actually be?0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »I know I have another question, but I want to ask because it's more simple...
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?
I've just answered your other threads, but essentially the logic is sound. If you can establish your forecast race pace, the majority of your training volume should be undertaken more slowly. The proportion depends on your race distance.
The challenge for many runners, myself included, is that the training pace can feel too slow. Getting the training value depends on disciplining oneself to run at that pace. It doesn't hold true that the pace one is comfortable training at points to the preferred race pace, because one might be training too quickly.
It also depends on how much training volume, and how the plan is structured. As an example my forecast 5K time is 20:15. That would need me to be running about 50-60 miles per week, aimed at 5K performance improvement. My actual 5K PB is 24:25, and with most of my training being aimed at marathon and ultra running I'm not doing the type of work that will improve that.
What's a realistic goal then for my next 5k so I don't get ahead of myself? If I run 13min miles comfortably, what's a good goal to hope for in the next couple months with adding a 3rd day a week? What should my race pace actually be?
If you run 13 minute miles comfortably, stick with 13 minute miles for the majority of your training. A common guideline is 80% of your training easy, though different systems disagree on whether it's 80% of the distance or 80% of the time running. Most systems agree that "easy" means you can carry on a conversation while running, without having to gasp for air in the middle of long sentences. If that doesn't describe your 13 minute mile pace, you're still running too fast.
From what you've said about your training, the big deal for you right now is stamina, i.e. ability to last for 5K at a race pace. To improve that you primarily need to run more volume. Others have already commented on how to do that, so I won't rehash that subject.
A reasonable goal? How about running the entire 5K, faster than your training runs? Don't attach a time goal to this one, just a goal to keep running at a pace faster than you usually run. Then if you achieve that goal, you have a baseline 5K race pace to use for planning future training.0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »I know I have another question, but I want to ask because it's more simple...
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?
I've just answered your other threads, but essentially the logic is sound. If you can establish your forecast race pace, the majority of your training volume should be undertaken more slowly. The proportion depends on your race distance.
The challenge for many runners, myself included, is that the training pace can feel too slow. Getting the training value depends on disciplining oneself to run at that pace. It doesn't hold true that the pace one is comfortable training at points to the preferred race pace, because one might be training too quickly.
It also depends on how much training volume, and how the plan is structured. As an example my forecast 5K time is 20:15. That would need me to be running about 50-60 miles per week, aimed at 5K performance improvement. My actual 5K PB is 24:25, and with most of my training being aimed at marathon and ultra running I'm not doing the type of work that will improve that.
What's a realistic goal then for my next 5k so I don't get ahead of myself? If I run 13min miles comfortably, what's a good goal to hope for in the next couple months with adding a 3rd day a week? What should my race pace actually be?
I'd suggest thinking in terms of event goals, rather than trying to forecast a race pace. As MobyCarp suggests that might be to run faster than training pace.
0 -
Doing more miles per week will increase your training and race pace over time. Adding in cross training will also help, just don't increase it all at the same time.0
-
Most beginner runners don't really have a lot of difference between their training and racing paces. Basically you only have one gear. You will push a bit harder in a race, but generally the pace itself isn't that different. Just keep running at a pace where you can hold a conversation easily. With more miles and more time on your feet, you could easily cut a couple of minutes off your time, if you are consistent. When you are running 25+ miles a week, then start doing speedwork. Until then, your best improvement will come just from consistent weekly mileage.1
-
spiriteagle99 wrote: »Most beginner runners don't really have a lot of difference between their training and racing paces. Basically you only have one gear. You will push a bit harder in a race, but generally the pace itself isn't that different. Just keep running at a pace where you can hold a conversation easily. With more miles and more time on your feet, you could easily cut a couple of minutes off your time, if you are consistent. When you are running 25+ miles a week, then start doing speedwork. Until then, your best improvement will come just from consistent weekly mileage.
Ok thank you all for the sound advice! I wish I hadn't pushed myself to my breaking point for that 5k in August, because I feel like I have to beat it, so I'll just go with what everyone has suggested with running a 3rd day a week. That darn number though! At the same time I want to enjoy running 5ks not be in pain the entire time. Thank you all for your insight, clearly I was thinking my race time should be much faster than my training time0 -
spiriteagle99 wrote: »Most beginner runners don't really have a lot of difference between their training and racing paces. Basically you only have one gear. You will push a bit harder in a race, but generally the pace itself isn't that different. Just keep running at a pace where you can hold a conversation easily. With more miles and more time on your feet, you could easily cut a couple of minutes off your time, if you are consistent. When you are running 25+ miles a week, then start doing speedwork. Until then, your best improvement will come just from consistent weekly mileage.
Ok thank you all for the sound advice! I wish I hadn't pushed myself to my breaking point for that 5k in August, because I feel like I have to beat it, so I'll just go with what everyone has suggested with running a 3rd day a week. That darn number though! At the same time I want to enjoy running 5ks not be in pain the entire time. Thank you all for your insight, clearly I was thinking my race time should be much faster than my training time
how often are you racing?0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »Most beginner runners don't really have a lot of difference between their training and racing paces. Basically you only have one gear. You will push a bit harder in a race, but generally the pace itself isn't that different. Just keep running at a pace where you can hold a conversation easily. With more miles and more time on your feet, you could easily cut a couple of minutes off your time, if you are consistent. When you are running 25+ miles a week, then start doing speedwork. Until then, your best improvement will come just from consistent weekly mileage.
Ok thank you all for the sound advice! I wish I hadn't pushed myself to my breaking point for that 5k in August, because I feel like I have to beat it, so I'll just go with what everyone has suggested with running a 3rd day a week. That darn number though! At the same time I want to enjoy running 5ks not be in pain the entire time. Thank you all for your insight, clearly I was thinking my race time should be much faster than my training time
how often are you racing?
I did a 5k in April, one in August and one yesterday...
I am signed up for an 8k thanksgiving day, and a 5k right before christmas0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »Most beginner runners don't really have a lot of difference between their training and racing paces. Basically you only have one gear. You will push a bit harder in a race, but generally the pace itself isn't that different. Just keep running at a pace where you can hold a conversation easily. With more miles and more time on your feet, you could easily cut a couple of minutes off your time, if you are consistent. When you are running 25+ miles a week, then start doing speedwork. Until then, your best improvement will come just from consistent weekly mileage.
Ok thank you all for the sound advice! I wish I hadn't pushed myself to my breaking point for that 5k in August, because I feel like I have to beat it, so I'll just go with what everyone has suggested with running a 3rd day a week. That darn number though! At the same time I want to enjoy running 5ks not be in pain the entire time. Thank you all for your insight, clearly I was thinking my race time should be much faster than my training time
how often are you racing?
I did a 5k in April, one in August and one yesterday...
I am signed up for an 8k thanksgiving day, and a 5k right before christmas
So you should only be in pain 5 times this year! :laugh:1 -
The drills you do for speed will help teach your body to run faster, but you must first have the proper base. The best advice I have is to gradually build your distance until you can easily run a 10k. Finish out the year with this and your races and then you can work on speed.
FWIW, since I am trying to really race (not win, I have no shot at that
) I am always 'in pain' at the end of a race. If I have anything left in my tank I didn't give it my best shot.
Good luck.3 -
FWIW, since I am trying to really race (not win, I have no shot at that ) I am always 'in pain' at the end of a race. If I have anything left in my tank I didn't give it my best shot.
^^ This is me every time and it's never pretty. Usually doubled over just beyond the finish line, hands on knees, gasping for air like a dying fish, surrounded by several volunteers asking "Sir, are you SURE you're ok?" 3
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions