Hypermetabolism?
collectingblues
Posts: 2,541 Member
I'm so confused right now. At my dietitian's urging -- I keep meticulous food logs, weigh everything to the gram (except for fish/meat, which is in ounces), and am active, yet have gone months without losing anything -- I had RMR testing done this morning. She suspected that due to years of an eating disorder (and never doing a sharp restriction, but being super active without actually fueling those workouts), I was dealing with a reduced metabolism/adaptive thermogenesis.
The reality? The testing showed that my RMR is about 30 percent higher than would be expected in someone with my height/weight/body fat.
Now, obviously I don't know how recent this is. But I'm so confused and angry that I keep *meticulous* logs, and I can't actually lose weight, despite eating at a supposed deficit. Because even if I were off, it would have to be in the ballpark of 300-500 calories a day, based on these number -- and I can say with 99 percent confidence that I'm not off to the tune of 300-500 calories a day.
I meet with her next week, and I'll email her, too, but I'm so angry, and confused, and upset. Has anyone else dealt with this? Usually when you hear of hypermetabolism, it's in ED-recovery patients who are still losing weight when being refed. I don't understand how I've got the increased metabolism, but no weight loss to go with it.
The reality? The testing showed that my RMR is about 30 percent higher than would be expected in someone with my height/weight/body fat.
Now, obviously I don't know how recent this is. But I'm so confused and angry that I keep *meticulous* logs, and I can't actually lose weight, despite eating at a supposed deficit. Because even if I were off, it would have to be in the ballpark of 300-500 calories a day, based on these number -- and I can say with 99 percent confidence that I'm not off to the tune of 300-500 calories a day.
I meet with her next week, and I'll email her, too, but I'm so angry, and confused, and upset. Has anyone else dealt with this? Usually when you hear of hypermetabolism, it's in ED-recovery patients who are still losing weight when being refed. I don't understand how I've got the increased metabolism, but no weight loss to go with it.
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stats would be useful in your post...1
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Ah, sorry. 5'4.5, ranging between 122-124 these days, 25.3 percent body fat.0
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collectingblues wrote: »Ah, sorry. 5'4.5, ranging between 122-124 these days, 25.3 percent body fat.
and you're trying to lose weight?
how many calories do you currently eat?
do you weigh and measure all your food?3 -
So this is long, but all the details...
Everything that goes in my mouth is weighed and measured -- to the gram for everything that is not poultry/pork/beef, and to the ounce for poultry/pork/beef. My scale has a liquid function as well, so that is used for everything but cooking oil. Cooking oil is rarely used, and when it is, is done with tablespoons.
Restaurants I don't weigh and measure, but I either go only to places that publish, or I use the closest Aramark/Sodexo entry for what I am eating if they do not publish.
Plus, I don't eat out that often (maybe once or twice a month) at places that don't publish nutritional info.
I use USDA entries for all "raw" ingredients, and verify database entries to the nutritional labels for everything else.
With the exception of the past two weeks, when I've been dealing with a stress fracture, I typically run 20 MPW, do barre three times a week, and try to swim once (typically a mile swim). If we were going by activity factors, I'd put me at a 1.46 (I think I'm neither the 1-3, nor the 3-5 -- I think it's more like in between) -- so that would be a TDEE of 2098 when I'm in full training mode, and 1722 when I'm not. In the months below, the only month when I would have been at glorified slug mode (AKA, sedentary) was May, when I had another break in my foot.
Average total calories per day for the last week were 1445.- For September, the average daily over the course of a month was 1618.
- August: 1756
- July: 1534
- June: 1373
- May: 1371
- April: 1455
- March:1304
- February:1496
- January: 1481
Everything was fine up until my first half marathon on May 7. The irony being that my total calories in April, February, and January were *higher* than May and June.
Now that I plot it all out, I can see that I was eating more in January-April, on average, but I thought that eating more wasn't supposed to help you lose weight?
I have a history of ... not true binging and purging, but eating slightly above what I thought was strictly necessary, and then withholding insulin as a purge. In May/June, I wasn't logging those, but it was in the ballpark of maybe 150 calories or so, on average, when it happened; I'd been working with a different dietitian in the winter and spring (hence why those calories were also higher -- she was really getting on my case about restriction), and was able to keep those in check up until May when I just got so angry about everything . I'd say that the July count is a true representation -- I started logging those events in July so I could see what the true calorie profile looked like.
I did that increase in August after figuring that oh, fine, whatever, I'll listen to the dietitian and add more calories to see if that helped the b/p cycle, and see what happens. It did help with those cycles, and I've been able to keep those away now.
I prefer being at sub-120. I gained a few pounds after my first half marathon, and they didn't come off. That's been the battle since May. It's been a 3 percent increase since that first half, and I'm furious at my body and at myself. I don't know what else to do. Right now, my goal is to get back to 120, and from there, I would prefer to get to 115.
We know that water retention is an issue, but it's getting to the point of ridiculousness.0 -
and what has your weight done from January to now?
are those net or gross figures?0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Ah, sorry. 5'4.5, ranging between 122-124 these days, 25.3 percent body fat.
and you're trying to lose weight?
how many calories do you currently eat?
do you weigh and measure all your food?
This. Are you trying to lose or maintain? And you had years of ED? If so, the hypermetabolism may last a while - your body is trying to make up for all that it lost (nutrients, hormone function, preserving organs, etc), so eating more makes sense. I can imagine how frustrating it is that metabolism isn't stabilized, but you need to pay attention to your body's cues.
I have hypermetabolism myself due to Crohn's causing malnutrition and extreme weight loss, so I am restoring my weight. I bet I will have these same frustrations when I am at a healthy weight/BMI, but for now my conversations with my medical staff have really helped. Keep communicating with your dietician, and best of luck.
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TavistockToad wrote: »and what has your weight done from January to now?
are those net or gross figures?
Those are all gross. I don't do net calories because I follow TDEE instead of NEAT. I figured I hated the idea of eating back exercise calories, especially since seeing numbers in red before exercise was entered was a giant trigger for me -- and that if I knew that I was going to run, or go to barre, why should I beat myself up over a "red" number when I knew that my day's plan needed to include fueling it.
From January to now, it's gone up and down. From January -> May I was losing on average of around half a pound a week, and fairly predictably. It's been stable since May, initially trending downward, but then popping back up after my second half in July.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Ah, sorry. 5'4.5, ranging between 122-124 these days, 25.3 percent body fat.
and you're trying to lose weight?
how many calories do you currently eat?
do you weigh and measure all your food?
This. Are you trying to lose or maintain? And you had years of ED? If so, the hypermetabolism may last a while - your body is trying to make up for all that it lost (nutrients, hormone function, preserving organs, etc), so eating more makes sense. I can imagine how frustrating it is that metabolism isn't stabilized, but you need to pay attention to your body's cues.
I have hypermetabolism myself due to Crohn's causing malnutrition and extreme weight loss, so I am restoring my weight. I bet I will have these same frustrations when I am at a healthy weight/BMI, but for now my conversations with my medical staff have really helped. Keep communicating with your dietician, and best of luck.
I mean, I don't doubt that hypermetabolism is a thing -- I've restricted/overexercised/withheld insulin in some form or another for 20+ years now. I just don't understand why I'm not actually losing weight if I supposedly have hypermetabolism.0 -
collectingblues wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »and what has your weight done from January to now?
are those net or gross figures?
Those are all gross. I don't do net calories because I follow TDEE instead of NEAT. I figured I hated the idea of eating back exercise calories, especially since seeing numbers in red before exercise was entered was a giant trigger for me -- and that if I knew that I was going to run, or go to barre, why should I beat myself up over a "red" number when I knew that my day's plan needed to include fueling it.
From January to now, it's gone up and down. From January -> May I was losing on average of around half a pound a week, and fairly predictably. It's been stable since May, initially trending downward, but then popping back up after my second half in July.
and whats the accuracy of the test you had done, because nothing in your figures is suggesting hypermetabolism to me?1 -
That's a good question. I mean, it's the same university-run lab that they use for our NFL and NHL teams in town, so I can only presume that it's fairly accurate. Or, at least, as accurate as any RMR set up at a professional level.0
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So if you've got ideas, I would love to hear/read them -- but at this point, because I have nothing showing me that any of the data is inaccurate, I also need to trust the data that's sitting in front of me.0
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collectingblues wrote: »So if you've got ideas, I would love to hear/read them -- but at this point, because I have nothing showing me that any of the data is inaccurate, I also need to trust the data that's sitting in front of me.
So going by your numbers I would say you need to try and increase your cals to get your TDEE up before you try losing weight again. Cos given your stats and activity level you should be able to eat more and still lose weight.1 -
OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.0
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collectingblues wrote: »OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.
Pointless really, you're either wanting to fix it or you're not IMO. Plus you should not be eating in a deficit when you're trying to heal a bone fracture.10 -
collectingblues wrote: »OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.
What is your TDEE?0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.
Pointless really, you're either wanting to fix it or you're not IMO. Plus you should not be eating in a deficit when you're trying to heal a bone fracture.
That's a fair point, and I do appreciate the smack.
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laurenebargar wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.
What is your TDEE?
If I use a 1.2 sedentary activity factor, it would be 1722. Which ... feels like *so* much food when I'm not actually doing anything.
I am cleared to swim and go to barre (with modifications -- no getting up on my toes, and no intense pressure on the left foot) if my foot doesn't hurt, which would be closer to 1975. Which, to my brain right now, feels like an *insane* amount of food. But I'm still getting off-and-on pain spikes, so that's really a day-by-day call.0 -
collectingblues wrote: »laurenebargar wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.
What is your TDEE?
If I use a 1.2 sedentary activity factor, it would be 1722. Which ... feels like *so* much food when I'm not actually doing anything.
I am cleared to swim and go to barre (with modifications -- no getting up on my toes, and no intense pressure on the left foot) if my foot doesn't hurt, which would be closer to 1975. Which, to my brain right now, feels like an *insane* amount of food. But I'm still getting off-and-on pain spikes, so that's really a day-by-day call.
It honestly might help to eat up to your TDEE, I personally would stay off the scale for a few weeks (easier said than done I know) but you could slowly increase? 50-100 calories a week?2 -
laurenebargar wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »laurenebargar wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.
What is your TDEE?
If I use a 1.2 sedentary activity factor, it would be 1722. Which ... feels like *so* much food when I'm not actually doing anything.
I am cleared to swim and go to barre (with modifications -- no getting up on my toes, and no intense pressure on the left foot) if my foot doesn't hurt, which would be closer to 1975. Which, to my brain right now, feels like an *insane* amount of food. But I'm still getting off-and-on pain spikes, so that's really a day-by-day call.
It honestly might help to eat up to your TDEE, I personally would stay off the scale for a few weeks (easier said than done I know) but you could slowly increase? 50-100 calories a week?
LOL. These days, I'm considering a success that I'm only weighing in once a day... (We started increasing my fluid intake in August, which was ... monumental in keeping me off the scale, because OMG water weight jumps.)
I'll talk to the dietitian on Monday, and I see my therapist tomorrow. I'm sure they'll have ideas on how to increase, and how to deal with the brain games, but to my brain, it's all "nope, you haven't lost weight, so why would eating more help anything?"0 -
collectingblues wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »OK. I don't know that I'm comfortable going to my full TDEE, especially since I'm still in glorified slug mode due to the fracture, but I don't have serious issues staying at the 1440 ballpark while I'm a glorified slug.
Pointless really, you're either wanting to fix it or you're not IMO. Plus you should not be eating in a deficit when you're trying to heal a bone fracture.
That's a fair point, and I do appreciate the smack.
You're welcome. We're here to help you get healthy
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Average total calories per day for the last week were 1445.
For September, the average daily over the course of a month was 1618.
August: 1756
July: 1534
June: 1373
May: 1371
April: 1455
March:1304
February:1496
January: 1481
This is not a mystery. You lost about .5 per week for several months eating around 1400. Then in July and Aug you increased a few hundred calories and stopped losing. Increasing 250 calories would explain no longer losing .5 per week. With only a few lbs to lose and already at a healthy weight, .5 lb per week is normal, acceptable, and perfectly on track. After your fracture heals, go back to the calorie level you ate earlier in the year.
I may have missed this, but please consider opening your food diary so the insightful people here can give you some feedback on your logging.1 -
collectingblues wrote: »That's a good question. I mean, it's the same university-run lab that they use for our NFL and NHL teams in town, so I can only presume that it's fairly accurate. Or, at least, as accurate as any RMR set up at a professional level.
How was the test done? Did you follow all the instructions of not eating, not exercise etc beforehand? Did you move around a lot during the test? You are supposed to be reclined and essentially try to take a nap.0 -
The thing that sticks with me is you started having trouble after your first half Marathon and had more trouble after your second half marathon. Other than that, everything was pretty much ok. Did I hear right?0
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collectingblues wrote: »That's a good question. I mean, it's the same university-run lab that they use for our NFL and NHL teams in town, so I can only presume that it's fairly accurate. Or, at least, as accurate as any RMR set up at a professional level.
How was the test done? Did you follow all the instructions of not eating, not exercise etc beforehand? Did you move around a lot during the test? You are supposed to be reclined and essentially try to take a nap.
Fasted and no exercise for 12 hours. Flat on my back for the entire 30 minutes, no movement.
I followed the instructions to the T.
I see my dietitian tomorrow, and will see what she wants to do next.0 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »The thing that sticks with me is you started having trouble after your first half Marathon and had more trouble after your second half marathon. Other than that, everything was pretty much ok. Did I hear right?
Yes, that's right.0 -
Did I misunderstand, or are you an insulin dependent diabetic? That potentially changes a lot about how you metabolize food, depending on how appropriate your insulin levels are.
Also, why are you trying to lose weight? It sounds like you are already at a healthy weight.0 -
I'm in recovery from an eating disorder. I'm not happy at this weight. (And the rest of that is not a conversation for here, but for my therapist's office.) I don't find it acceptable that in five months, my weight increased by five percent. I want to get it back to where it was.
I'm insulin dependent. I'm actually really insulin sensitive, and am on what's considered a relatively low dose (units per kilogram -- or in my case, less than a unit per kilo) for a type 1. But that's been the case for 35 years, so shouldn't have a causal relationship with whatever my body decided to do back in May.0 -
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Just as confused .0
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collectingblues wrote: »I'm so confused right now. At my dietitian's urging -- I keep meticulous food logs, weigh everything to the gram (except for fish/meat, which is in ounces), and am active, yet have gone months without losing anything -- I had RMR testing done this morning. She suspected that due to years of an eating disorder (and never doing a sharp restriction, but being super active without actually fueling those workouts), I was dealing with a reduced metabolism/adaptive thermogenesis.
The reality? The testing showed that my RMR is about 30 percent higher than would be expected in someone with my height/weight/body fat.
Now, obviously I don't know how recent this is. But I'm so confused and angry that I keep *meticulous* logs, and I can't actually lose weight, despite eating at a supposed deficit. Because even if I were off, it would have to be in the ballpark of 300-500 calories a day, based on these number -- and I can say with 99 percent confidence that I'm not off to the tune of 300-500 calories a day.
I meet with her next week, and I'll email her, too, but I'm so angry, and confused, and upset. Has anyone else dealt with this? Usually when you hear of hypermetabolism, it's in ED-recovery patients who are still losing weight when being refed. I don't understand how I've got the increased metabolism, but no weight loss to go with it.
I highlighted the 2 bolded parts because I wondered how you knew what the "expected RMR was for someone your height/weight/body fat".
If you are talking about online calculators, then are you certain you used an RMR calculator as opposed to a BMR calculator?
RMR is typically higher than a BMR.
Mine for example is approx 200 cals more when I use online calculators.
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