Machines for legs instead of free weights. Thoughts?
vinerie
Posts: 234 Member
I've had a nagging lower back issue over the past few years and this summer went to a chiropractor for the first time. I am an active, 40-year-old woman and the back pain is really frustrating. I am trying to lose about 20 pounds to see if that helps and have lifted (off and on) since I was 18 after first learning technique while a college athlete. (This to say, I know what i'm doing in the weight room.) Anyhow, my chiropractor says he tells everyone to not to do squats because 90% of people do them incorrectly. I am so terrified of aggravating my back again, I haven't done squats for two years. I do lunges, however, with light weights (i.e. 3 lbs dumbbells. Again, I am so freaked out about my back I am hesitant to do anything heavy free weight-wise). It's been awhile since I've done leg press, hamstring press and quads on the machine. Anyone doing leg machine lifts instead of free weight lifts for legs? If so, why, and what has your experience been, in terms of reshaping your legs? TIA!
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I'm not a fan of doing leg's in a machine or any movement in any machine, leg press is OK for people who are weaker to build up some strength at first, but for someone with nagging back issues, I'd say no because of the tendency to round the lower back in the press.
Honestly, I'd see a physical therapist, have them watch you squat and deadlift and make sure that you're form is spot on.6 -
I injured my lower back on the leg press (my own fault - hadn't been to the gym properly in months and started straight back using my 'normal weight') so I now much prefer free weights / the bar, as long as I've got someone nearby to support me. I still use the leg press but I get much better results with free weights.1
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I don't have a problem with machines per se. I work them into most of my routines. They can be effective if used correctly, but with back problems, I would think a leg press would be just as risky, if not more so than starting light and learning proper form on a barbell squat because of the tendency to round the lower back as @FatWithFatness mentioned. The keys, I think, are:
1. Pride - Check that *kitten*. Not saying you struggle with it, but a lot do, which is why so many people injure themselves and have terrible form. Don't be afraid to start light/empty until you've got the form down then increase the weight. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
2. Education - Study form, practice form, get an assessment from physical therapists and go from there. I learned by reading Starting Strength, using a broomstick in my living room, and having my wife watch me against form training videos on YouTube and telling me when it looked right. After it looked and felt right, I started with an empty bar and worked my way up. If you can afford to have a professional assessment done, I would say that's always the best option.2 -
I've had a nagging lower back issue over the past few years and this summer went to a chiropractor for the first time. I am an active, 40-year-old woman and the back pain is really frustrating. I am trying to lose about 20 pounds to see if that helps and have lifted (off and on) since I was 18 after first learning technique while a college athlete. (This to say, I know what i'm doing in the weight room.) Anyhow, my chiropractor says he tells everyone to not to do squats because 90% of people do them incorrectly. I am so terrified of aggravating my back again, I haven't done squats for two years. I do lunges, however, with light weights (i.e. 3 lbs dumbbells. Again, I am so freaked out about my back I am hesitant to do anything heavy free weight-wise). It's been awhile since I've done leg press, hamstring press and quads on the machine. Anyone doing leg machine lifts instead of free weight lifts for legs? If so, why, and what has your experience been, in terms of reshaping your legs? TIA!
This surprises me... If your chiro was actually wanting to help people, he should learn how to properly do squats himself and then teach his clients how to do them properly instead of just telling the clients not to do them.
As for the machines, as long as you have proper form (see that - form counts here as well), they have their place and will help you strengthen your legs. Watch that you keep your back flat on the bench and don't round it - the same problem that causes issues with squats. If you can't keep your back flat, lower the weights and work on form before adding weight back in. You can also adjust the position of the bench (back support) so that you can keep your back flat.4 -
A good physiotherapist will help you get back to squatting, if that's what you want to do.1
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You need good form on the machines too. I use both machines and free weights, but not too focused on "reshaping" my legs. I'm focused on building strength and endurance and better looking legs are the side benefits. I feel machines can have a useful place in your program because for me they help me do some things (upper body) that are difficult to do with good form on DB because of issues I have.
My back definitely improved with weight loss and core strengthening. My low back issues have virtually disappeared.0 -
I've had a nagging lower back issue over the past few years and this summer went to a chiropractor for the first time. I am an active, 40-year-old woman and the back pain is really frustrating. I am trying to lose about 20 pounds to see if that helps and have lifted (off and on) since I was 18 after first learning technique while a college athlete. (This to say, I know what i'm doing in the weight room.) Anyhow, my chiropractor says he tells everyone to not to do squats because 90% of people do them incorrectly. I am so terrified of aggravating my back again, I haven't done squats for two years. I do lunges, however, with light weights (i.e. 3 lbs dumbbells. Again, I am so freaked out about my back I am hesitant to do anything heavy free weight-wise). It's been awhile since I've done leg press, hamstring press and quads on the machine. Anyone doing leg machine lifts instead of free weight lifts for legs? If so, why, and what has your experience been, in terms of reshaping your legs? TIA!
90% of people do lunges incorrectly too.
It's a "deep step" not a "long step"5 -
My back is terrible as well. The best thing I've read in regards to improving legs, is doing everything as single leg only. Single leg leg press, pistol squats, etc...1
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You're better off doing free weights instead of machines across the board. Your chiropractor might be right that 90% of people do squats wrong but that shouldn't be a deterrent-use that as motivation to do them properly. I would recommend the squatting method taught by Mark Rippetoe in his book, Starting Strength. Proper form is the key to consistent and injury-free strength training and in the 19 years I have been lifting I know of no better way to squat.4
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I was laid up with an SI joint problem a few years ago, and my physical therapist had me doing a variety of squats & deadlifts during rehab (with dumbbells). They suggested I stay away from barbell lifting, but I'm back at it and haven't had any problems since. Not as heavy as I used to, but more than I could handle with dumbbells.
Before I had my home gym and only went to Planet Fitness, I did all the weight machines. I had good results. Just not as good as when I switched to free weights.1 -
The problem I found with machines is that they require your body to conform to the angles, etc. of the machine which may not be optimal for a person's individual body structure - seat heights, placement of weight load, etc.0
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what has your experience been, in terms of reshaping your legs?
Reshaping as in reducing fat, not making them bigger, yes? That's from a calorie deficit, not from leg exercises. For more on that, google "spot reduction myth".
Ask an M.D. before doing any strength exercises. And try to get a diagnosis for your pain. You might need a referral to a physical therapist.
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Your leg muscles (or any other muscle in your body, for that matter) don't know whether you're using machines or free weights. They sense a load being put upon them and they react accordingly. If you use machines properly, with proper form and proper weights, you'll get results. If you use free weights properly, with proper form and proper weights, you'll get results.
The only people who *have* to squat and/or deadlift are powerlifters. For everybody else, there are a lot of viable options if one chooses not to squat or deadlift.
Lyle McDonald wrote a great article about it here: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/squat-versus-leg-press-for-big-legs.html/
One quote in particular:...Exercise selection is purely secondary outside of a given exercise allowing someone to apply progressive overload safely and effectively. You can build strength or mass with almost any exercise if the loading parameters and progression are there (which isn’t to say that exercises don’t vary in how well or how poorly they lend themselves to progression)...6 -
I've had a nagging lower back issue over the past few years and this summer went to a chiropractor for the first time. I am an active, 40-year-old woman and the back pain is really frustrating. I am trying to lose about 20 pounds to see if that helps and have lifted (off and on) since I was 18 after first learning technique while a college athlete. (This to say, I know what i'm doing in the weight room.) Anyhow, my chiropractor says he tells everyone to not to do squats because 90% of people do them incorrectly. I am so terrified of aggravating my back again, I haven't done squats for two years. I do lunges, however, with light weights (i.e. 3 lbs dumbbells. Again, I am so freaked out about my back I am hesitant to do anything heavy free weight-wise). It's been awhile since I've done leg press, hamstring press and quads on the machine. Anyone doing leg machine lifts instead of free weight lifts for legs? If so, why, and what has your experience been, in terms of reshaping your legs? TIA!
I had horrible back pain for almost 20 years. I had horrible sciatica, i could step wrong or sneeze and throw my back out. I was terrified about lifting, my back always hurt. I got a good coach and learned to deadlift properly which was two fold benefit. I learned to lift and trained my body to move the right way without hurting my back, and i built up core and lower body strength to protect my back. I haven't had a twinge in my back since and its been many many years. I personally dont think the leg press or machines are your best option because its not gonna train your body for real life movements, and they dont build up your core. Focus on form with free weights, and use low weights if you have to , that will be so much more beneficial than trying to stack on lbs on machines. Us the TRX to help with squat form, its an awesome way to squat and protect your back and build confidence. and dont be afraid to invest in a good coach, its worth it.3 -
Cherimoose wrote: »what has your experience been, in terms of reshaping your legs?
Reshaping as in reducing fat, not making them bigger, yes? That's from a calorie deficit, not from leg exercises. For more on that, google "spot reduction myth".
Ask an M.D. before doing any strength exercises. And try to get a diagnosis for your pain. You might need a referral to a physical therapist.
I think you missed the part about me being a former collegiate athlete (at a major institution) and lifting for more than 20 years. I more than know my way around the weight room and have also had lots of training on technique. and nowhere in my summary did I suggest that one can spot-reduce. I was looking for informed responses on lifting weights, not condescension. Thanks.0 -
thank you to most of the responders. I haven't used leg machines (maybe ever) and have always used free weights when lifting lower body (and upper for that matter). For anyone who has had a back injury, you know how it can screw with your thinking and I appreciate the feedback. Consulting a physical therapist is on my list of things to do, but I work full time at a crazy job and did I mention I have a 16-month old and my husband is also squeezed at work? It's a lot, but I do what I can to keep my fitness up!0
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I find that - generally speaking (for me) - my form is really good with squats and dead lifts (well, for full disclosure, my form on both is really good now.....it has been a journey getting there, to be honest). I also find that - for me - I am more prone for bad form on the machines. Not talking about hamstring curls or leg extensions....talking about the leg press machine (where you sit back and your feet are above your head on that big square platform and you "press" the weight....). I tend to hurt myself on that if I go past a certain weight. Below that weight, I am okay. I can feel that my form is incorrect and I know that I have to fix it. Like I have on my squat and dead lift.
But, all of that is specific to me. If your form is correct....no worries.
The only "objection" that I have for machines is that - generally speaking - you remove the stabilizer muscles from the lift. That is more for upper body stuff, though. And, what I mean by that....if you are using dumbbells or a barbell, you have to keep the dumbbells | barbell straight and centered. That means you have to keep it 'centered' "front to back" as well as "left to right"! With a lot of the machines, that is not a concern as all you have to do is "push" the machine arms up and down (or whatever).
I am a HUGE fan of doing dumbbells | barbells over machines everyday of the week and then twice on Sunday! But that is just me.1 -
And, to address the "don't do squats" comment from your doctor....I injured my left knee in high school football (yeah....the Glory Days). It was really messed up. For the longest time I was afraid to do squats. I mean, I was 15 when I tore up my left knee....I was 49 when I started doing squats.
Now, in between I was a distance runner. I would run up to 13 miles (in 75 minutes...so, I can run a little bit). I never had any knee problems until I twisted that same knee a few times while running on the Green Way. That kinda made distance running an issue for me. I could run through the pain, but why do that?
Anyway, I started doing squats about one year ago. Freaking love them. Now, I have gone through all of the dumb stuff due to bad form. The blessing in each event was that my form got that much better! Now, I have pretty dang good form. And my legs are getting a lot stronger. A lot stronger!
You do you. Whatever works for you. But, if you are thinking about doing barbell squats and are on the fence, try all of the other suggestions first. Once you are comfortable there then go for just the bar. I completely and TOTALLY understand the mental aspect to this.
I was - for the longest time - dead set against doing squats. I finally just googled something like "doing squats with bad knees" and found AthleneX and Scott Herman and a few others. Well, when I am not laid out (from an injuty because of bad form) I am loving them. And, to be honest, there are several reasons to the bad form. Mostly, me being really stubborn!
Take this for what it is worth......I do not regret starting squats at all. Really love them (behind dead lifts, but love them both).
And, totally understand that a bad knee is a bit different from a bad back. Was more focusing on the mental aspect........0 -
I was doing the majority of my lower body work on machines for a while after injuring my SI joint.
I guess I managed to maintain a fair amount of muscle/strength by doing this, but the stabilizer muscles got very weak.. When I did try to return to non-machine/barbell movements I had all kinds of issues (such as knee cave during squats, even with light weight) that were never a problem before. I don't feel like this transferred to any "real world strength" because of this... My quads/hamstrings are strong, everything else is not. Lower back strength is also a big issue for me, strictly machine work for legs did nothing for that. Compared to the barbell work I was doing previously I feel like I have some major imbalances now.1 -
@not_a_runner - hip adductor if your knees cave. That is that super awkward machine in the gym where you sit with your knees spread out and you bring them together! I know that YOU know what that exercise is, but others might not.
Funny story....at the gym and was working on squats. As mentioned numerous times, my form is really good. But I am still not as strong as I would like....so, I sat down on "the machine" and did adductor. It was something like 108lbs (I know, weird weight....but that is how things are on that machine...don't think that it is kgs converted to lbs). Did three sets of 10. And, was struggling on the second set to get #10. On the third set, started to struggle on #7.....barely finished. I am a man, 6'0" @ 208lbs. This tiny female (had to be 5'2" @ 110lbs) gets on the machine, looks at me, says "Really?" and then proceeds to move the pin WAY DOWN the stack. Then pumps out 10 like it was nothing. LOL! What could I do? Not a dang thing. I just walked away....
You might also want to work on Good Mornings and on GHD. LOVE those. And, I will do some Adductor work. Just a bit conflicted....I know that accessory work is important. Super important. But if I am doing the Strong Lifts 5x5 I am pretty sure that doing accessory work is not on the agenda. Anyway, we will see....0 -
I think it depends what n your back issue. I have degenerative scoliosis. I started doing yoga to increase my range of motion, which has helped my lifting tremendously as I can get my body in the correct form on both sides.
I bring my own super-firm pads for the back of the Leg Press. (They’re technically gardening pads from Amazon.) They help me maintain my form without curving/compressing lower back and help
Me reach the sled. I’m short—think booster chair.
Because of that, I use the other machines with caution. They’re not always built for someone my size. For example, the adductor machine ... if my back is against the back rest (made as small as it can go), much of the weight pressure in using the machine will be at my knees. Not good, so I do other things. And I do good!
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I have had a chronic back for 20 years. Step-ups have helped me tremendously. 16-inch box. 3 sets of 12 per leg. I’ve just added holding 20 pounds of weight. I do modified squats with a kettle bell starting by sitting on that box with a 20-pound bell, standing and lifting the bell straight up, then return. I also do squats with a large balance ball against my back, rolling it along a wall. That prevents bad form.
My concern with leg press machines would be the stress on the knees, not the back.
I agree with others that it’s well
worth the money to hire a well-qualified trainer to teach you proper form.0
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