Intermittent fasting
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If you are interested in IF, keto/low carb, or anything that is not CICO & exercise, you will get a lot of bad advice on the general forums. If you want to learn more about these taboo subjects and get some useful advice, then you should look into the private groups.
In the meantime, you may want to look into this series on fasting by Dr. Jason Fung. I believe there are about 14 parts, so just keep clicking.
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-a-history-part-i/
He will show you it's not just about calorie reduction. I've personally done IF (one meal a day) for a while and have lost a lot of weight and feel great and never have hunger. As I'm only eating once a day, my calories have gone down (I won't say how low because someone will say how dangerous it is). My body is burning body fat for most of my energy needs. My metabolism has not gone down to match my lower calorie intake, so I continue to lose weight.
Anyway, believe what you want, but I believe in low carb and IF, not in CICO (or CRaP - Calorie Reduction as Primary).
THIS!!! Great advice.
You do know that IF, keto, lc and all other diets are CICO right?6 -
If you are interested in IF, keto/low carb, or anything that is not CICO & exercise, you will get a lot of bad advice on the general forums. If you want to learn more about these taboo subjects and get some useful advice, then you should look into the private groups.
In the meantime, you may want to look into this series on fasting by Dr. Jason Fung. I believe there are about 14 parts, so just keep clicking.
https://idmprogram.com/fasting-a-history-part-i/
He will show you it's not just about calorie reduction. I've personally done IF (one meal a day) for a while and have lost a lot of weight and feel great and never have hunger. As I'm only eating once a day, my calories have gone down (I won't say how low because someone will say how dangerous it is). My body is burning body fat for most of my energy needs. My metabolism has not gone down to match my lower calorie intake, so I continue to lose weight.
Anyway, believe what you want, but I believe in low carb and IF, not in CICO (or CRaP - Calorie Reduction as Primary).
So you're losing weight because you are eating a vlcd. Sounds like cico to me3 -
I fast three or four times a day, between breakfast and lunch, lunch and a snack, ..
It can help eat less but CICO is the only thing that works. 1 -
I naturally dont eat until 11 or noon. I realized after the fact I sorta follow that schedule but you still have to not go over calories to lose weight. I can pig out and the scale wont move. Its not a magic pill. If its something that will fit your lifestyle go for it. I like eating this way because my meals can be slightly bigger. I could never get on board with 5-6 meals a day too much thinking involved with that. lol0
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Of course reducing calories will result in weight loss, or at least not weight gain, but only for the short term. All diets work in the short term, but except for the few, most diets fail for the long term (history of the last 50-60 years). So, yes, I will lose weight on a low fat diet, eating 3 times a day. But I find it easier eating lower carb, higher protein, reasonable fat (relying mostly on my body for fat and ketosis). And fasting, both IF and longer, may result in lowering insulin resistance and maintaining metabolism. Once my weight is off, I plan on just reducing refined carbs, but eating "natural" carbs in moderation, along with whatever protein and fat I care to eat. I'll use IF to maintain my metabolism (and lower overall caloric intake). And when I feast, I'll have some cake or pizza, but I'll offset that with fasting.You say in your post that you don't believe in CICO. But you also say that your calories have gone down as a function of IF (if I misinterpreted that, please forgive me and clarify). How do you decide what factor is causing what benefit?
Anyway, I suggest you read thru the above blogs on fasting. Then maybe take a look at the other blog posts, like this one on how to lose weight. There are lots of links - and he can say it better, and more accurately, than me.
https://idmprogram.com/lose-weight/
Dr. Jason Fung has made the most sense to me, moving through low fat diets, Atkins or low carb, to keto, to LCHF, to fasting. I'm still trying to learn and understand what works best for me.
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They may reduce calories, but there is a difference in how these diets affect hormones (insulin and others). Just reducing calories will allow for a short term weight loss, but then the metabolism will lower to match the lower calories - and a million other things - causing the weight to go back on.singingflutelady wrote: »You do know that IF, keto, lc and all other diets are CICO right?
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Of course reducing calories will result in weight loss, or at least not weight gain, but only for the short term. All diets work in the short term, but except for the few, most diets fail for the long term (history of the last 50-60 years). So, yes, I will lose weight on a low fat diet, eating 3 times a day. But I find it easier eating lower carb, higher protein, reasonable fat (relying mostly on my body for fat and ketosis). And fasting, both IF and longer, may result in lowering insulin resistance and maintaining metabolism. Once my weight is off, I plan on just reducing refined carbs, but eating "natural" carbs in moderation, along with whatever protein and fat I care to eat. I'll use IF to maintain my metabolism (and lower overall caloric intake). And when I feast, I'll have some cake or pizza, but I'll offset that with fasting.You say in your post that you don't believe in CICO. But you also say that your calories have gone down as a function of IF (if I misinterpreted that, please forgive me and clarify). How do you decide what factor is causing what benefit?
Anyway, I suggest you read thru the above blogs on fasting. Then maybe take a look at the other blog posts, like this one on how to lose weight. There are lots of links - and he can say it better, and more accurately, than me.
https://idmprogram.com/lose-weight/
Dr. Jason Fung has made the most sense to me, moving through low fat diets, Atkins or low carb, to keto, to LCHF, to fasting. I'm still trying to learn and understand what works best for me.
Wow, $1200!! Why on earth would anyone pay money for this?
You know what makes the most sense to me? Reading science literature instead of blogs and taking with a LARGE grain of salt the advice of someone who wants to charge me 1200 of my dollars for slapping their name on information that can be obtained free from the internet.3 -
They may reduce calories, but there is a difference in how these diets affect hormones (insulin and others). Just reducing calories will allow for a short term weight loss, but then the metabolism will lower to match the lower calories - and a million other things - causing the weight to go back on.singingflutelady wrote: »You do know that IF, keto, lc and all other diets are CICO right?
Nope.2 -
They may reduce calories, but there is a difference in how these diets affect hormones (insulin and others). Just reducing calories will allow for a short term weight loss, but then the metabolism will lower to match the lower calories - and a million other things - causing the weight to go back on.singingflutelady wrote: »You do know that IF, keto, lc and all other diets are CICO right?
LOL Source?2 -
They may reduce calories, but there is a difference in how these diets affect hormones (insulin and others). Just reducing calories will allow for a short term weight loss, but then the metabolism will lower to match the lower calories - and a million other things - causing the weight to go back on.singingflutelady wrote: »You do know that IF, keto, lc and all other diets are CICO right?
High protein you mentioned effects insulin too - read up some research on it - not even studies - just plain old measuring insulin after eating protein of average levels.
Eat more and read up on how the unneeded is converted to glucose, which now insulin will go up for again.
You aren't getting away from insulin response, perhaps bad spikes, on a high protein keto diet. Reason why the original was high fat, normal protein.
Other hormone changes effected too like leptin even on low carb - because it's the loss of fat that effects that huge regulating hormone. Actually carbs is the way to improve it's whacked out state.
But metabolism won't lower to match the eating level, it's can only adapt so much - by then someone doing that extreme (and agree not hard to do that) is having other issues, like adherence eating so little is probably their biggest problem.
While that binging too frequently could wipe out a deficit and cause weight gain - it's the binging, not the diet.
And while it appears you think keto would prevent overeating - read around - it's still possible and many stopped keto because they still overate too much.
No magic bullet there that can't be blocked with good old human weakness.
If it works for you, great.
But the claims as to why it works are either exaggerations or not backed up by any other research.1 -
Like others have said, it's still all about CICO. But if you have trouble maintaining a calorie deficit then it's not a bad idea to look into IF. Intermittent Fasting seems to be a magic bullet for some people that allows them to consistently maintain a calorie deficit.0
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For the people dismissing hormone manipulation (for lack of a better term) in favor of CICO...
Is it because hormone manipulation isn't a thing and/or has no impact on weight loss (short term or long), or is it because its importance pales in comparison to CICO? Or... ?0 -
I did it for a while with good results. It's just another way to create a calorie deficit. But it's definitely not for everyone.0
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katrinalawson wrote: »Hi all,
I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts on fasting and if it really helps with weightloss.
Back to the question after the thread hijack.....
Yes IF can help with weight loss if it personally suits you for adherence to a sustainable calorie deficit.
But if it doesn't suit you then it's a hindrance.
Do remember a lot of the "noise" around IF isn't aimed at people who are calorie counters - if restricting food intake some days or part of everyday due to intermittent fasting works for weight loss then it's because they are eating less.
"I skipped some meals and lost weight" is a bit of a no *kitten* Sherlock statement isn't it?
I liked 5:2 when I lost weight, found my weekly moderate calorie deficit was far less difficult than an everyday deficit and I got to goal weight and stayed there. But I've also known many people who tried 5:2 and hated it and failed with it.
Also tried 16:8 at maintenance but didn't like (or really need) rigid rules around eating windows.
Try whatever version appeals to you along with a healthy overall diet and an appropriate calorie deficit (daily or weekly). You can always revert if you don't like it.2 -
I started trying fasting after my coworker also started and had success after his doctor recommended Dr. Fung's book The Obesity Code. 3 days a week I basically skip breakfast and lunch and eat a normal dinner. I have been losing weight steadily and it really helps offset any weight gain if I go out to eat over the weekend. I don't really calorie count anymore so it helps save on time. You definitely get used to not eating during those times. The key is to make sure you drink plenty of water.
I am still not sure whether it is CICO or IF that is the reason for the weight loss. Likely it is a mix of things that contribute to weight loss; boiling it down to just one thing or another is too simplistic. So find what works for you and your lifestyle. 0 -
No matter the protocol, you need a calorie deficit to lose. Whether there is a metabolic advantage or not with IF (I believe there is), any protocol with a deficit, as calculated by CICO, will result in weight loss (you used up energy and it had to come from somewhere).
See http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/3/519.full
pay attention to the gluconeogenisis discussion
"the energy cost to produce glucose through gluconeogenesis was 33% of the energy content of glucose"
This shows me that IF results in a metabolic advantage due to the extra gluconeogenesis involved with IF.
Again any protocol will work (with a deficit). I believe for the same amount of calories consumed, IF will work better though. Any protocol can be overcome also (including IF and LC) by consuming too many calories.
Other things I like about IF is that I eat tell full instead of stopping eating before I'm full. I get to eat tell fullness because I eat most of my calories in a short window. I also don't have to do much meal planning, and I don't count or measure anything.
IF, I'm sure, isn't for everyone and stopping eating before your full and eating more small meals might be easier for some than not eating for a long time but it might require that you count and measure to make it work.2 -
The secret to being a skinny *kitten*. I mean, everyone that I know who is "naturally" skinny forgets to eat. Some of us aren't so lucky and have to consciously avoid eating for a time.0
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katrinalawson wrote: »Hi all,
I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts on fasting and if it really helps with weightloss.
I liked 5:2 when I lost weight, found my weekly moderate calorie deficit was far less difficult than an everyday deficit and I got to goal weight and stayed there. But I've also known many people who tried 5:2 and hated it and failed with it.
Also tried 16:8 at maintenance but didn't like (or really need) rigid rules around eating windows.
Try whatever version appeals to you along with a healthy overall diet and an appropriate calorie deficit (daily or weekly). You can always revert if you don't like it.
Try it and see? I ate 8400-9000 calories a week - deficit the same each day ( approx 1250 cake a day). Over 6 months my weight loss was averaging 2.5 pounds a month. I started 5:2 IF this month- Same weekly calories but two days at 500 and 5 days close to 1500. This month is not over and I’ve lost over four pounds. I don’t believe that is a coincidence- I believe 5:2 fasting has a different effect on my body than everyday low calorie restriction did.
Plenty on the forum will say IF doesn’t matter, only CICO. I can’t give you evidence and scientific studies, I have only my experience to offer. It was a game changer for me. But would it be for another? I don’t know, so unless you have a history of eating disorder I would recommend giving it a try.
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If you don't eat anything after dinner until breakfast, you are fasting during that time ... as well as any time you don't eat between meals long enough for your stomach to empty out ... I understand this varies some, but is about 6 to 8 hours after consumption.
I like to do a 12-hour fast between supper and breakfast ... but that's just so I can get a more accurate fasting blood glucose check with my glucometer.
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For the people dismissing hormone manipulation (for lack of a better term) in favor of CICO...
Is it because hormone manipulation isn't a thing and/or has no impact on weight loss (short term or long), or is it because its importance pales in comparison to CICO? Or... ?
All of the different types of diets (eg., Keto diets, low sugar diets. intermittent fastings, etc.,) always claim some sort of hormonal or metabolic advantage. But the real reason they work for so many people isn't because they increase your metabolism by 0.1%, but because they simply provide a way of eating that allows people to routinely consume less calories.
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