CrossFit or MMA
Replies
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I have never done crossfit, and do one aspect of mma only. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is amazing. Full body workout, teaches you self defense (especially how to defend yourself as a woman) and the most amazing community to be part of. Yes, you are fighting against your partner in training, but it is a trust based fighting, where you tap before injury and your partner lets go. But honestly, you need to try various things and find what works best for you!1
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Niether. Crossfit is for the weak and is a cult, and MMA doesn't do something something, so the best alternative is a Planet Fitness membership.3
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I can’t speak on MMA vs Crossfit but I can give an opinion on Crossfit vs a structured compound lift program. I find lifting barbells has made me stronger in a shorter time than Crossfit would have. Crossfit would have increased my endurance more. Thing is I can run a structured training program and push a sled or do Tabata battle ropes, kettlebell swing, or rower for less money.
Now Crossfit does have a good social environment. It was nice for classes I tried, but I lift angry and alone. I get all my frustrations out in lifting and I found it annoying to have to deal with others. If you would thrive in social environment Crossfit might be good for you.
It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »Niether. Crossfit is for the weak and is a cult, and MMA doesn't do something something, so the best alternative is a Planet Fitness membership.
Are you sure?
I do like purple dumbbells.....0 -
MMA is more useful in life.
this is absurd.
on any given day I'm far more likely to need to lift/pull/carry something heavy, or otherwise exert myself physically, than need to engage in fisticuffs. From a risk management perspective, over the course of my life I'm also far more likely to find myself in a situation where my physical strength and cardiovascular conditioning will save my life than my prowess at punching and kicking.
Crossfit isn't about learning to do kipping pullups. Kipping pullups are about engaging your entire body in a simple exercise AFTER you've gotten to the point where strict pullups are so easy they become pointless, or just simply to put up big numbers in competition. Kipping pullups are to crossfit what the speed bag is to boxing.
Your argument is absurd as well. You're going to do plenty of lifting, pulling, and carrying in MMA training too, and you'll get plenty of cardiovascular training as well. As to which is more useful in life, that's going to vary from person to person.
Why can't both be good? Doesn't it really come down to what you enjoy? I find fight based training fun and I don't get bored. Does that make MMA better? Nope, but it's better for me. Will the fighting be useful in the real world? Probably not, I'm getting old, that crap hurts, and the legal ramifications are a freaking nightmare.0 -
It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
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It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
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I have no problem with that argument - specialized training is going to lead to better results for those specific exercises. If I was to train using a program like Stronglifts for 5 months, I’m sure my Squat, DL, and Strict Press would surpass my Squat, etc from 5 months of Crossfit. People that focus on traditional strength programs are going to be stronger.
Just like if I was to train with a running program, I’m sure my 5k time would be a few minutes shorter than if CrossFit was my primary exercise program.
Where I personally believe the real benefit of CrossFits training comes in though, is that after 5 months the person doing CrossFit would not only be able to run a 5k with a decent time, but they could also put up some relatively heavy numbers with their compound lifts.
For myself personally, after 5 months of CrossFit I could DL 355 pounds and Squat 260, run a 5k in 23 Minutes, and Clean 190 pounds. I weighed 162. I know those numbers aren’t exceptional by any means, but I think they are good for 5 months without specializing.2 -
It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.0 -
It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.
OR, you could do a dedicated lifting program for 4 months, with 2 days a week to light conditioning. switch to a lifting maint prog 2 days a week and a dedicated running program for 4 months and be ahead of both.
Crossfit isn't the fastest way to get anywhere except injured.
IF you want to crosstrain... crosstrain, but do it in a smart and structured manner.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.
OR, you could do a dedicated lifting program for 4 months, with 2 days a week to light conditioning. switch to a lifting maint prog 2 days a week and a dedicated running program for 4 months and be ahead of both.
Crossfit isn't the fastest way to get anywhere except injured.
IF you want to crosstrain... crosstrain, but do it in a smart and structured manner.
And you base that on what exactly?
Doing Kipping pull-ups before you’re ready, and with poor form, without supervision, is going to lead to injury just like doing any of the number of arcane specialized lifts that a powerlifting coach would have you do, if they’re done before your ready, without proper form, and without supervision.
Any CrossFit instructor worth their certification will tell you that the “crazy” stuff, like everybody’s favorite punching bag kipping, is only to be attempted by experienced athletes.
CrossFit IS a smart, structured, cross training program. That’s heavily reliant on classes, coaching, and instruction.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.
OR, you could do a dedicated lifting program for 4 months, with 2 days a week to light conditioning. switch to a lifting maint prog 2 days a week and a dedicated running program for 4 months and be ahead of both.
Crossfit isn't the fastest way to get anywhere except injured. [\b]
IF you want to crosstrain... crosstrain, but do it in a smart and structured manner.
And you base that on what exactly?
Doing Kipping pull-ups before you’re ready, and with poor form, without supervision, is going to lead to injury just like doing any of the number of arcane specialized lifts that a powerlifting coach would have you do, if they’re done before your ready, without proper form, and without supervision.
Any CrossFit instructor worth their certification will tell you that the “crazy” stuff, like everybody’s favorite punching bag kipping, is only to be attempted by experienced athletes.
CrossFit IS a smart, structured, cross training program. That’s heavily reliant on classes, coaching, and instruction mixed bag of random workouts with no structure, limited supervision and no end goal.
1. FIFY
2. Nothing Arcane or specialized about Squats, Deadlifts, or Bench press. Perhaps you meant Olympic lifting.
3. Totally false, IME. when I went, the coach had everyone kipping or trying to kip first day. Also had everyone cleaning first day with no coaching and minimal supervision. From talking to other folks that's pretty typical.
4. FIFY Again
Just because you joined a cult doesn't mean anyone else should.
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stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.
OR, you could do a dedicated lifting program for 4 months, with 2 days a week to light conditioning. switch to a lifting maint prog 2 days a week and a dedicated running program for 4 months and be ahead of both.
Crossfit isn't the fastest way to get anywhere except injured. [\b]
IF you want to crosstrain... crosstrain, but do it in a smart and structured manner.
And you base that on what exactly?
Doing Kipping pull-ups before you’re ready, and with poor form, without supervision, is going to lead to injury just like doing any of the number of arcane specialized lifts that a powerlifting coach would have you do, if they’re done before your ready, without proper form, and without supervision.
Any CrossFit instructor worth their certification will tell you that the “crazy” stuff, like everybody’s favorite punching bag kipping, is only to be attempted by experienced athletes.
CrossFit IS a smart, structured, cross training program. That’s heavily reliant on classes, coaching, and instruction mixed bag of random workouts with no structure, limited supervision and no end goal.
1. FIFY
2. Nothing Arcane or specialized about Squats, Deadlifts, or Bench press. Perhaps you meant Olympic lifting.
3. Totally false, IME. when I went, the coach had everyone kipping or trying to kip first day. Also had everyone cleaning first day with no coaching and minimal supervision. From talking to other folks that's pretty typical.
4. FIFY Again
Just because you joined a cult doesn't mean anyone else should.
it sounds like you went to a *kitten* box that should lose it's status as an affiliate. It's too bad that spoiled your view of crossfit entirely. I've been to 2 different affiliates here, and neither was remotely like that, at all. It also doesn't fit with every blog post, tutorial, or article written about CrossFit that's blessed by the governing organization.
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stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.
OR, you could do a dedicated lifting program for 4 months, with 2 days a week to light conditioning. switch to a lifting maint prog 2 days a week and a dedicated running program for 4 months and be ahead of both.
Crossfit isn't the fastest way to get anywhere except injured. [\b]
IF you want to crosstrain... crosstrain, but do it in a smart and structured manner.
And you base that on what exactly?
Doing Kipping pull-ups before you’re ready, and with poor form, without supervision, is going to lead to injury just like doing any of the number of arcane specialized lifts that a powerlifting coach would have you do, if they’re done before your ready, without proper form, and without supervision.
Any CrossFit instructor worth their certification will tell you that the “crazy” stuff, like everybody’s favorite punching bag kipping, is only to be attempted by experienced athletes.
CrossFit IS a smart, structured, cross training program. That’s heavily reliant on classes, coaching, and instruction mixed bag of random workouts with no structure, limited supervision and no end goal.
1. FIFY
2. Nothing Arcane or specialized about Squats, Deadlifts, or Bench press. Perhaps you meant Olympic lifting.
3. Totally false, IME. when I went, the coach had everyone kipping or trying to kip first day. Also had everyone cleaning first day with no coaching and minimal supervision. From talking to other folks that's pretty typical.
4. FIFY Again
Just because you joined a cult doesn't mean anyone else should.
it sounds like you went to a *kitten* box that should lose it's status as an affiliate. It's too bad that spoiled your view of crossfit entirely. I've been to 2 different affiliates here, and neither was remotely like that, at all. It also doesn't fit with every blog post, tutorial, or article written about CrossFit that's blessed by the governing organization.
You need to try getting away from the coolaid, and reading some blog posts from others who've visited the thousands of *kitten* boxes worldwide.0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.
OR, you could do a dedicated lifting program for 4 months, with 2 days a week to light conditioning. switch to a lifting maint prog 2 days a week and a dedicated running program for 4 months and be ahead of both.
Crossfit isn't the fastest way to get anywhere except injured. [\b]
IF you want to crosstrain... crosstrain, but do it in a smart and structured manner.
And you base that on what exactly?
Doing Kipping pull-ups before you’re ready, and with poor form, without supervision, is going to lead to injury just like doing any of the number of arcane specialized lifts that a powerlifting coach would have you do, if they’re done before your ready, without proper form, and without supervision.
Any CrossFit instructor worth their certification will tell you that the “crazy” stuff, like everybody’s favorite punching bag kipping, is only to be attempted by experienced athletes.
CrossFit IS a smart, structured, cross training program. That’s heavily reliant on classes, coaching, and instruction mixed bag of random workouts with no structure, limited supervision and no end goal.
1. FIFY
2. Nothing Arcane or specialized about Squats, Deadlifts, or Bench press. Perhaps you meant Olympic lifting.
3. Totally false, IME. when I went, the coach had everyone kipping or trying to kip first day. Also had everyone cleaning first day with no coaching and minimal supervision. From talking to other folks that's pretty typical.
4. FIFY Again
Just because you joined a cult doesn't mean anyone else should.
it sounds like you went to a *kitten* box that should lose it's status as an affiliate. It's too bad that spoiled your view of crossfit entirely. I've been to 2 different affiliates here, and neither was remotely like that, at all. It also doesn't fit with every blog post, tutorial, or article written about CrossFit that's blessed by the governing organization.
You need to try getting away from the coolaid, and reading some blog posts from others who've visited the thousands of *kitten* boxes worldwide.
Um.....
Blog posts aren't necessarily the best source of objective information....
Haven't you learned that here?
People who have a gripe are much more likely to post than people who are happy and satisfied with a thing.
I could probably find a lot of posts ripping Gold's Gym/apple-pie/pizza/God-and-country if I so wished.0 -
MMA. Nothing against crossfit but I've been doing MMA for 18 years and I'm set in my ways.1
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I love Crossfit, never did MMA but would definitely try it.0
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GiddyupTim wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
I'm not so sure about that. By combining both you're not simply doing half the work over double the time (assuming same amount of time spent working out) and arriving at the same end result, the lifting part could interfere with your energy for the cardio part and vice versa leading to less results, which wouldn't happen in a dedicated program of only doing one of the two consistently.
OR, you could do a dedicated lifting program for 4 months, with 2 days a week to light conditioning. switch to a lifting maint prog 2 days a week and a dedicated running program for 4 months and be ahead of both.
Crossfit isn't the fastest way to get anywhere except injured. [\b]
IF you want to crosstrain... crosstrain, but do it in a smart and structured manner.
And you base that on what exactly?
Doing Kipping pull-ups before you’re ready, and with poor form, without supervision, is going to lead to injury just like doing any of the number of arcane specialized lifts that a powerlifting coach would have you do, if they’re done before your ready, without proper form, and without supervision.
Any CrossFit instructor worth their certification will tell you that the “crazy” stuff, like everybody’s favorite punching bag kipping, is only to be attempted by experienced athletes.
CrossFit IS a smart, structured, cross training program. That’s heavily reliant on classes, coaching, and instruction mixed bag of random workouts with no structure, limited supervision and no end goal.
1. FIFY
2. Nothing Arcane or specialized about Squats, Deadlifts, or Bench press. Perhaps you meant Olympic lifting.
3. Totally false, IME. when I went, the coach had everyone kipping or trying to kip first day. Also had everyone cleaning first day with no coaching and minimal supervision. From talking to other folks that's pretty typical.
4. FIFY Again
Just because you joined a cult doesn't mean anyone else should.
it sounds like you went to a *kitten* box that should lose it's status as an affiliate. It's too bad that spoiled your view of crossfit entirely. I've been to 2 different affiliates here, and neither was remotely like that, at all. It also doesn't fit with every blog post, tutorial, or article written about CrossFit that's blessed by the governing organization.
You need to try getting away from the coolaid, and reading some blog posts from others who've visited the thousands of *kitten* boxes worldwide.
Um.....
Blog posts aren't necessarily the best source of objective information....
Haven't you learned that here?
People who have a gripe are much more likely to post than people who are happy and satisfied with a thing.
I could probably find a lot of posts ripping Gold's Gym/apple-pie/pizza/God-and-country if I so wished.
I was of course responding the suggestion that I read "approved/blessed" blog posts
Requoted belowevery blog post, tutorial, or article written about CrossFit that's blessed by the governing organization.0 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I have no idea if this is possible, but does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do crossfit reach their physique goals? And does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do MMA reach their physique goals? Or if there's someone who's done either, how long did it take you and how dedicated were you in terms of eating and how often did you train?
That might be a bit more helpful to the OP.
On average, never.
Since MMA isn't targeted at "physique" and the issues with crossfit are well documented.0 -
Question - looking at some of the crossfitters I know, and some of the MMA folks, It would be difficult to guess who did what based on appearance or apparent fitness if I didn't know them, or weren't told who did what.
Both seem to have the means to get a person seriously fit and healthy with good (or great) endurance.
So the question: Why is this a source of contention for anyone? Shouldn't the goal be to find a means to get as healthy as possible and enjoy what we're doing at the same time?1 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I have no idea if this is possible, but does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do crossfit reach their physique goals? And does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do MMA reach their physique goals? Or if there's someone who's done either, how long did it take you and how dedicated were you in terms of eating and how often did you train?
That might be a bit more helpful to the OP.
On average, never.
Since MMA isn't targeted at "physique" and the issues with crossfit are well documented.
So do you just hate everything, then?
Not at all. MMA is great if you want to learn to get someone to tap in the ring. But that's the goal. Getting fit may be a side effect, but it's not a goal. MMA is great for what it is, but it's not a fitness or physique program. It's a ring/octagon based collection of "combatives" "systems". I've rolled with some very competent and capable dudes that were far from physical specimens. But they also liked to eat.0 -
TeacupsAndToning wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I have no idea if this is possible, but does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do crossfit reach their physique goals? And does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do MMA reach their physique goals? Or if there's someone who's done either, how long did it take you and how dedicated were you in terms of eating and how often did you train?
That might be a bit more helpful to the OP.
On average, never.
Since MMA isn't targeted at "physique" and the issues with crossfit are well documented.
So do you just hate everything, then?
Not at all. MMA is great if you want to learn to get someone to tap in the ring. But that's the goal. Getting fit may be a side effect, but it's not a goal. MMA is great for what it is, but it's not a fitness or physique program. It's a ring/octagon based collection of "combatives" "systems". I've rolled with some very competent and capable dudes that were far from physical specimens. But they also liked to eat.
But don't you think that if they tightened up their eating and training that they could achieve what they want?
Perhaps. but that's external to MMA. And who says that's "what they want". Most of the people I roll with want to be "just a little more dangerous"2 -
I prefer MMA, I wanna be able to knock a mugger's teeth out if need be.
Also, anyone watch elgintensity on youtube. That dude's hilarious!...that's all I'll say...0 -
Neither for me. But depends on your goals and what you enjoy.0
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »TeacupsAndToning wrote: »I have no idea if this is possible, but does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do crossfit reach their physique goals? And does anyone know how quickly, on average, people who do MMA reach their physique goals? Or if there's someone who's done either, how long did it take you and how dedicated were you in terms of eating and how often did you train?
That might be a bit more helpful to the OP.
On average, never.
Since MMA isn't targeted at "physique" and the issues with crossfit are well documented.
So do you just hate everything, then?
Not at all. MMA is great if you want to learn to get someone to tap in the ring. But that's the goal. Getting fit may be a side effect, but it's not a goal. MMA is great for what it is, but it's not a fitness or physique program. It's a ring/octagon based collection of "combatives" "systems". I've rolled with some very competent and capable dudes that were far from physical specimens. But they also liked to eat.
But don't you think that if they tightened up their eating and training that they could achieve what they want?
Perhaps. but that's external to MMA. And who says that's "what they want". Most of the people I roll with want to be "just a little more dangerous"
I think that you're being a bit argumentative just for the sake of it.
And you're missing the point.
This guy was the most dominant MMA Heavyweight for years. Doesn't look like all that much does he.
Notwithstanding that..... I wouldn't care to get in the ring/octagon with him.
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It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
Powerlifters don't train for six months and then stop to just cardio/endurance for the reason I stated. Powerlifters in general want to focus on gaining strength of the three lifts they are competing, not focus on cardio/endurance. That would be detaining when strength is the goal.1 -
It's pretty debatable if a lifting only program will build strength better than CrossFit. Lots of powerlifters also do crossfit, and lots of CrossFiters are also competitive powerlifters. A significant portion of the CrossFit methodology is centered around improving ones ability at olympic lifts.
Going to disagree. If you are looking for endurance or general fitness yes completely agree. But with a structured lifting program, your specificity will be toward strength gains and not split with other goals. Time in the gym is centered on a more narrow pursuit and recovery is spent on that also.
Not a knock against Crossfit. I think it is pretty damn good at general fitness but not as efficient at strength training as many other programs. Powerlifters and Oly lifters add Crossfit to gain this endurance training. If they started in Crossfit they likely had to add additional strength training to be competitive in a different sport.
Agreed. There isn't enough frequency with specificity programmed for crossfit alone to progress faster than powerlifting alone when we are talking strength.
Crossfit is more random in lifts programmed.. Some would say crossfit it more of a exercise than a training program.
you may build to that top strength FASTER on a dedicated program, but if you're talking long term, CrossFit will get you to the same place or very very nearly close to it, with other benefits as well.
Consider this. 2 identical people. One person does strict powerlifting training for 6 months, then stops and does strict cardio/endurance training for 6 months.
Another person mixes powerlilfting and cardio for a year.
At the end of the year, do you think both will be in the same place with both their powerlifting and their endurance?
Hey, if you want to get the most lifting gains in the next year, by all means, just lift. If you cardio gains are all you care about, just run. If you want to be an all around fitness freak and have the highest possible level of overall fitness you can achieve, Crossfit is going to be the fastest way to get there.
Personally, I do crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week, and supplement them with focused strength training. Lots of people do that. Treat CrossFit as the "base" and then supplement with the specific areas they want, whether that's powerlifting, endurance, or agility.
Powerlifters don't train for six months and then stop to just cardio/endurance for the reason I stated. Powerlifters in general want to focus on gaining strength of the three lifts they are competing, not focus on cardio/endurance. That would be detaining when strength is the goal.
No *kitten*?0 -
@TeacupsAndToning
I was able to get most of my original goals checked off within about 3 months, some of those were:
- 10 Strict Pull-ups
- Run 2 Miles without walking
- Drop 25 lbs
- PROPERLY do a Snatch
At 5 months:
- 15 Strict Weighted Pull-ups (+20 lb vest)
- Deadlift 350 lbs
- Drop 30 lbs
- Body weight Clean (160)
- Run a 5k
- Snatch 115
Now my goals are:
- Clean 225 (at 195 now)
- Maintain Weight (160-165)
- Sub 20 Minute 5k (22 min now)
- Ring Muscle Up (have Bar muscle ups)
- Deadlift 400 (at 370)
- Snatch 155 (at 135)
I’m about 7 months in - so that should give you an idea of my progression. 5 Days a week.
However, I don’t just do “one CrossFit class” a day. Our box also posts an ‘extra work’ workout that is designed to supplement the classes - they generally don’t last more than 15 Minutes.
I also spend 10-15 Minutes 2 or 3 times a week working on things that I personally need or want to work on (like Snatches) or supplementing with sets of compound lifts we generally don’t do in class (Bench press and B.B. rows mostly).1
This discussion has been closed.
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