Sugar addiction!!!

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  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    k4music28 wrote: »
    As someone who has resorted to eating sugar right from the sugar jar...yeah, sugar is that much of a compulsion if you don't want to use the word addiction. It's all or nothing for me. I will binge on things like clementines too. I'm low carb now because some sort of a sugar rush and crash everyday felt terrible. But I do acknowledge a strong psychological component to my particular need for sweets. Its a double whammy I believe of physical and mental issues with sugary foods.

    Fair enough.

    People binge on non sweet foods, too, and many bingers are unlikely to binge on fruit or eat sugar out of the jar. FOR YOU, I would say that you've found a good solution and low carb may be the best way to go. For someone who is fine with starchy carbs and fruit, giving up sugar or saying the problem is sugar seems huge overkill. Working on strategies to help with the particular trigger foods and the bad habits/emotional use of food, or whatever -- I think it's somewhat individual -- is important. Sometimes it's just broadening the palate or making sure non dessert/non "junk" foods are satisfying and tasty enough. And some find bingeing tends to be a reaction to restriction or telling themselves they cannot have a food or it's bad -- again, depends on the person. That's why I think it's important to point out that generally (there are exceptions) people aren't actually reacting just to sugar or to all sugar, and there's more going on that can be controlled.

    I always think of posts from people who say "what's wrong with me, I have no control! I open a bag of chips with the intention of eating just a few and the next thing I know my show is over and the bag is empty!" That's nothing much to do with the chips, IMO, but mindless eating and thinking it's reasonable to be able to eat out of a bag and stop. For many people, not all, the issues around sweets may similar involve some things (different things depending on the person) that can be controlled.

    For OP, I also want to second the recommendation of Duhrigg's Habit, upthread. Good book.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,688 Member
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    hqy2010 wrote: »
    This video explains the effect of sugar on the brain very well:
    https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-this-is-how-sugar-affects-your-brain
    Petting puppies and smiling babies can do the same.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,688 Member
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    panchakshara wrote: »
    So I've studied nutrition (was gonna be a registered dietitian but at this point I think it's too much money for a program where only 50% of applicants get accepted to internships). Sugar is DEFINITELY addictive - when given the chance, rats consistently choose sugar water over cocaine. it lights up the same dopamine driven pleasure pathways in the brain (along with impacting other neurotransmitters like serotonin and your endorphins, which also has an effect on mood) as addictions like drugs and gambling - which makes sense, because eating is very important to human survival, so for thousands of years it was very useful for sugar to be incredibly rewarding and reinforcing. unfortunately, that's not the case anymore with all of the food we have easily available today. i would recommend staying away from refined sugars and trying to replace mood driven eating with other sources of pleasure that do not have anything to do with food - exercise, meditation, listening to music, buying something cool, exploring your neighborhood/city, taking a bubble bath, etc. it's going to be difficult at first, but the more practice you get turning to healthy coping mechanisms, the easier it will be to choose them over sugar. be careful though, it's very easy to slip up and relapse because of how addictive sugar is! while treating yourself and mindfulness/moderation can be a useful strategy for some people who are dieting and trying to change unhealthy eating habits, for people like me who have a long history of binging on sugar, it's just not possible to eat it without setting off a behavior/reward chain that ends in disaster
    I've studied nutrition and implement it with clients everyday. And I still read over clinical studies when I can to keep up with current research. And I'll say it's not addictive.
    From what you describe, the same "feeling" can be achieved by petting puppies, holding happy babies, playing music, etc. That DOESN'T make those things "addictive".


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
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    An intense response to neurochemical stimulation doesn’t necessitate an addiction. As @ninerbuff has pointed out, many things can trigger similar responses. Aside from nutrition, look at it from a psychological standpoint. Addiction must meet certain criteria to even be diagnosable as one. Often, it’s not going to come down to a single ingredient like sugar, rather there’s a whole host of associated feelings that trigger a behavioral reaction to grab “something sweet” and those feelings and behaviors are something that would need to be addressed, not just the resulting object of desire.
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
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    Rats are not humans, but that aside, metabolic derangement from obesity usually dysregulates neurotransmitter and hormonal signaling. That’s not shocking. In fact it’s more of an argument for the stance that sugar itself is not an obesogenic nutrient. Obesogenic diets have never been achieved through single nutrient intake alone. It’s a combination of hyperpalatability and energy density, namely a combination of carbs, fat, and salt that have been designed to specifically make people eat more. They fall low on the satiety index and have relatively little to no nutrient density.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,370 Member
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    panchakshara wrote: »
    did anyone even read the article i posted?

    "The passive overconsumption of sugar-sweetened diets has often been compared to drug addiction, though this parallel was based until very recently more on anecdotal evidence than on solid scientific grounds. More recently, mounting evidence from experimental research on animals, especially rats, have unearthed deep commonalities between overconsumption of sugars and drug addiction [15]–[17]. First, both sweet tastants [18], [19] and drugs of abuse [20], [21] stimulate dopamine signaling in the ventral striatum, a brain signaling pathway critically involved in reward processing and learning [22], [23]. Second, both cross-tolerance [24], [25] and cross-dependence [26]–[28] have been observed between sugars and drugs of abuse. For instance, animals with a long history of sucrose consumption become tolerant to the analgesic effects of morphine [25]. In addition, naloxone–an opiate antagonist–precipitates in rats with sugar overconsumption some of the behavioral and neurochemical signs of opiate withdrawal [28]. This latter observation is important because it shows that overconsumption of sugar-sweetened beverages may induce a dependence-like state. Finally, recent neuroimaging studies in humans have recently discovered neuroadaptations in the brain of obese individuals that mimic those previously observed in individuals addicted to cocaine and other drugs of abuse [29], [30]."

    from the intro to the article that you posted:

    'Refined sugars (e.g., sucrose, fructose) were absent in the diet of most people until very recently in human history. Today overconsumption of diets rich in sugars contributes together with other factors to drive the current obesity epidemic. Overconsumption of sugar-dense foods or beverages is initially motivated by the pleasure of sweet taste and is often compared to drug addiction. Though there are many biological commonalities between sweetened diets and drugs of abuse, the addictive potential of the former relative to the latter is currently unknown.'
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    ccrdragon wrote: »
    panchakshara wrote: »
    did anyone even read the article i posted?

    "The passive overconsumption of sugar-sweetened diets has often been compared to drug addiction, though this parallel was based until very recently more on anecdotal evidence than on solid scientific grounds. More recently, mounting evidence from experimental research on animals, especially rats, have unearthed deep commonalities between overconsumption of sugars and drug addiction [15]–[17]. First, both sweet tastants [18], [19] and drugs of abuse [20], [21] stimulate dopamine signaling in the ventral striatum, a brain signaling pathway critically involved in reward processing and learning [22], [23]. Second, both cross-tolerance [24], [25] and cross-dependence [26]–[28] have been observed between sugars and drugs of abuse. For instance, animals with a long history of sucrose consumption become tolerant to the analgesic effects of morphine [25]. In addition, naloxone–an opiate antagonist–precipitates in rats with sugar overconsumption some of the behavioral and neurochemical signs of opiate withdrawal [28]. This latter observation is important because it shows that overconsumption of sugar-sweetened beverages may induce a dependence-like state. Finally, recent neuroimaging studies in humans have recently discovered neuroadaptations in the brain of obese individuals that mimic those previously observed in individuals addicted to cocaine and other drugs of abuse [29], [30]."

    from the intro to the article that you posted:

    'Refined sugars (e.g., sucrose, fructose) were absent in the diet of most people until very recently in human history. Today overconsumption of diets rich in sugars contributes together with other factors to drive the current obesity epidemic. Overconsumption of sugar-dense foods or beverages is initially motivated by the pleasure of sweet taste and is often compared to drug addiction.

    Note: sugar was not absent -- sugar is in fruit.

    The foods people tend to overconsume are not simply (or necessarily) sugary, they are hyperpalatable (and cheap and easily available).

    Here's a review of a book that I think better explains what's going on with some of the difficulties moderating high cal, hyperpalatable foods: https://www.thenutritionwonk.com/single-post/2017/08/13/Can-You-Trick-Your-Brain-to-Lose-Weight-The-Hungry-Brain-Review

    But if someone just wants sweetness/sugar, like I said above, have some fruit. For me, it's not just sugar, so I don't overeat fruit, but if I did have such a tendency, eh, not that hard to fit in or make sure I also have enough vegetables, protein, and fat and not exceed calories.
  • westguy27
    westguy27 Posts: 21 Member
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    It is a mixture of habit and cravings. I used to crave the fry up at breakfast break at work and takeaway straight after work and I used to call into service stations just for a handful of bars and packets of sweets after work when the blood sugars would be low.
    I think it takes some will power but also, eating more protein and using protein shakes and bars as snacks helps me.
    One of the key things too is control of blood sugar. If you eat a load of carbs or sweets, in 3-4 hours, you wil get huge cravings for the same thing again when the blood sugar drops. Also, I find if I eat no carbs or a low carb diet, I tend to completely binge on carbs/sugar. Even a half loaf of sliced pan is heaven after an extended period without carbs.
    My current solution which has worked over the last few weeks for me is to eat some carbs and not deprive yourself but also eat protein with it and eat regular meals so that you are not in the position where you might binge. My diet is far from perfect but I eat a bit of everything rather than curb carbs or sugar, while counting and limiting overall calories and it has worked so far.
  • Livingthedream17
    Livingthedream17 Posts: 2 Member
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    Lets listen to what people have to say about how they are feeling and not berate someone for the difficulties they are having. Everybody’s body is different, appetites are different, gut and brain hormones are different, physiologists are different and environments are different. Sugar has been scientifically proven to show the same brain response as opioids and alcohol. It is fine if anybody does not believe this. This is a place for encouragement and safety in expressing frustrations. Be positive and supportive, or please do not respond. Thank you to everyone who has been positive and non judgmental. Weight loss, maintenance and getting over the normal bumps in the road is hard enough!
  • Bughunter99
    Bughunter99 Posts: 13 Member
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    Hi there
    Ignore the finger wagers claiming how you feel does not exist. (Eyeroll)
    I can absolutely relate to your relationship with sugar, the draw is powerful and once begun it's easy to keep going.
    What has really helped me this time is weighing in daily and being so jazzed about my progress (6 pounds off since 10/15) I don't want to mess it up and I know a sugar binge will do that fast. Logging each day helps too. I really don't like seeing my available calories decline for ten minutes of indulgence. I haven't quit cold turkey, I do allow myself about 100 to 150 calories of something sweet at the end of some but not all days. I'm starting to feel more in control of it each day. Best of luck to you, don't let that binge voice reason you into something you will regret 5 minutes later. It feels much better saying no in the long run. : )
  • theyoginurse
    theyoginurse Posts: 82 Member
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    barbswire13 wrote: »
    It's like alcoholic, just stay away from it don't even start

    I absolutely agree with @iamthemotherofdogs and myself, I am going to stay away from sugary foods just how I stay away from cigarettes and alcohol.
  • 3bambi3
    3bambi3 Posts: 1,650 Member
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    theyoginurse wrote: »
    barbswire13 wrote: »
    It's like alcoholic, just stay away from it don't even start

    I absolutely agree with @iamthemotherofdogs and myself, I am going to stay away from sugary foods just how I stay away from cigarettes and alcohol.

    Cool. So you're just going to eat meat and oil?
  • jessiferrrb
    jessiferrrb Posts: 1,758 Member
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    panchakshara wrote: »
    did anyone even read the article i posted?

    "The passive overconsumption of sugar-sweetened diets has often been compared to drug addiction, though this parallel was based until very recently more on anecdotal evidence than on solid scientific grounds. More recently, mounting evidence from experimental research on animals, especially rats, have unearthed deep commonalities between overconsumption of sugars and drug addiction [15]–[17]. First, both sweet tastants [18], [19] and drugs of abuse [20], [21] stimulate dopamine signaling in the ventral striatum, a brain signaling pathway critically involved in reward processing and learning [22], [23]. Second, both cross-tolerance [24], [25] and cross-dependence [26]–[28] have been observed between sugars and drugs of abuse. For instance, animals with a long history of sucrose consumption become tolerant to the analgesic effects of morphine [25]. In addition, naloxone–an opiate antagonist–precipitates in rats with sugar overconsumption some of the behavioral and neurochemical signs of opiate withdrawal [28]. This latter observation is important because it shows that overconsumption of sugar-sweetened beverages may induce a dependence-like state. Finally, recent neuroimaging studies in humans have recently discovered neuroadaptations in the brain of obese individuals that mimic those previously observed in individuals addicted to cocaine and other drugs of abuse [29], [30]."

    I've read the rat study. i've read the reviews of the rat study. i've read articles about the rat study and about reviews of the rat study. the rat study is problematic for several reasons.

    you can find a comprehensive review here
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221892901_Obesity_and_the_brain_How_convincing_is_the_addiction_model

    and an easy light read about it here
    http://behavioralscientist.org/no-sugar-isnt-new-heroin/

    (anecdotally i didn't read these studies because i'm super into sugar defense or demonization, but because i was very interested in the rat park studies and rabbit holed my way to the sugar studies on a tangent).
  • lucerorojo
    lucerorojo Posts: 790 Member
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    What forum is this? I feel like it should be called "shaming." I understand people not wanting "non-scientific" info out there but at least offer some positive recommendations.

    Personally I've found that eating tasty food I like during meals has reduced my cravings for sweets. I still do eat a cookie or piece of chocolate on a regular basis. And I log it. I have steered away from the baked goods because they are so calories dense. I'd rather eat a meal than a muffin or other 500 calorie treat. (Almost 1/3 of my days calories).

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