As low impact to all joints as swimming but not swimming

CarvedTones
CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
edited November 22 in Fitness and Exercise
Is this a fantasy exercise regimen I am looking for? I have systemic arthritis flares (pretty much any/every joint). Full system flares are very infrequent, but flaring up where I do a lot of motion (exercise) is all too common. For example, last winter I started Nordic walking. I likely did push a little harder than I should to get to a brisk pace. By spring, the poles were replaced with a cane, but the cane was back in the closet by summer. Leisurely walks are okay as is slow cycling. But I really don't get much toning out of that. Swimming makes the most sense but just isn't practical for me. What else is there?

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Replies

  • steveko89
    steveko89 Posts: 2,223 Member
    Have you tried rowing/ergometer?
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    steveko89 wrote: »
    Have you tried rowing/ergometer?

    Impact may not have been the best word. Rowing tends to aggravate the shoulders and can cause costochondritis (inflammation of cartilage in the chest wall) flares. I can get away with some light use.

    I keep going back the "what if" of Nordic walking without pushing to walk so briskly.
  • ISweat4This
    ISweat4This Posts: 653 Member
    Recumbent bicycle, NuStep...
  • iamthemotherofdogs
    iamthemotherofdogs Posts: 562 Member
    Bicycle, something like a cruiser or recumbent so you can not have to put excess pressure on your hands/arms/rear. Simple yoga.
  • NorthCascades
    NorthCascades Posts: 10,968 Member
    Nordic skiing?
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    Flow yoga or a light gymnastics based program if you can tolerate it may help you get to the point where your joints are better supported by the surrounding musculature.
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    edited November 2017
    The flow yoga looks like a possibility. Holding a pose for more than a brief interval not so much, but linking them in smooth calisthenics looks like it could work. Thanks!
  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,486 Member
    I would suggest aqua fit, but it looks like a pool is a bit inconvenient, so I will go with yoga.

    I do Iyengar yoga. It focuses on body alignment using props for support when needed.

    If you go the yoga route, do shop around for a studio and yogi that suits you and your needs.

    You could also look at doing a body weight programme to help with strength.
    Nerdfitness ( my fav as it is simple), 'you are your own gym', and 'convict conditioning' are all good. You would start with your capabilities now and build to doing the programme as written.

    Have you seen a physical therapist to help you find exercises that would be compatable with your restrictions?
    It may be worth the visit.

    Cheers, h.
  • hyIianprincess
    hyIianprincess Posts: 302 Member
    I have arthritis too pretty much everywhere as well. I use therabands (not for long periods since gripping makes me stiff) and ankle/wrist weights. It's not a lot of resistance, but I feel like I've built a little bit of muscle. I would also suggest yoga or even pilates. Pilates was great, but I had to stop during my latest flare.
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    Yeah I have some therabands around here somewhere from my last stint in PT to help me get rid of the cane in the spring. I never really felt like they tone me all that much but I guess they did help me get some strength back. I know there are whole regimens with nothing but therabands and a doorknob. I should look some up. The likelihood of injuring myself or causing a flare with a theraband is pretty low. As much as I love Nordic walking, the trouble with it is when I figure out I need to stop I might be a half mile from the house. The yoga sounds good but requires a class or video learning and there are almost too many choices. I may take a class at the community center though; we'll see. Now to look for the therabands...
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    edited November 2017
    hyIianprincess wrote: »
    I have arthritis too pretty much everywhere as well. I use therabands (not for long periods since gripping makes me stiff) and ankle/wrist weights. It's not a lot of resistance, but I feel like I've built a little bit of muscle. I would also suggest yoga or even pilates. Pilates was great, but I had to stop during my latest flare.

    Barbell training is more effective than therabands for stiff hands/fingers.

    You wouldn't build any muscle with bands though. Might notice a very slight strength gain though as you adapt to the resistance.

  • hyIianprincess
    hyIianprincess Posts: 302 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    hyIianprincess wrote: »
    I have arthritis too pretty much everywhere as well. I use therabands (not for long periods since gripping makes me stiff) and ankle/wrist weights. It's not a lot of resistance, but I feel like I've built a little bit of muscle. I would also suggest yoga or even pilates. Pilates was great, but I had to stop during my latest flare.

    Barbell training is more effective than therabands for stiff hands/fingers.

    You wouldn't build any muscle with bands though. Might notice a very slight strength gain though as you adapt to the resistance.

    I’m sure it does but I personally can’t due to being extremely hyper mobile. I have dislocations daily. I have to keep it light. But yeah, I haven’t noticed a significant amount of muscle from therabands, but that’s what my PT therapist is having me do
  • Jancandoit7
    Jancandoit7 Posts: 356 Member
    I'm 60- lots of aches and pains- some arthritis- pain in knees- walking is what makes me feel the best. Some days I'm really dragging, other days I'm speeding along full of energy. Walking in nature is great for the immune system as well (trails in woods, ocean, etc.). Trees actually give off chemicals that are very healing-the Japanese call it "forest bathing" -look it up-no lie! I live near a beautiful state park so always walk trails through the woods.
  • TimothyFish
    TimothyFish Posts: 4,925 Member
    Cycling is easy on the joints as long as you use a gear that is easy to push at a high cadence.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    edited November 2017
    i have rheumatoid arthritis which used to give me a fair bit of aggravation. tried the universal panacea of 'swimming' and other water based excercises and hated it. hated it. to this day when people auto-react to the word 'arthritis' with 'swimming' i have this atavistic urge to go all three-stooges on them.

    i bought my first as-an-adult bike because of r.a. because standing around hurt my feet and walking hurt them even more and i was sick of it. so idk if that would work for you, but i do basically have times when i explain my biking everywhere as 'it's like a wheelchair, only without the parking hassles.'
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    edited November 2017
    I do cycle some and probably should more. It's a little spookier this time of year as a lot of it will be after dark. But I have the safety lights and a decent route that is all bike path or neighborhood with a fair number of street lights. The concern I have with cycling and even walking is being a distance from home when one of my knees starts talking to me; it can be screaming by the time I get home. Cycling is probably better than walking in that regard since I could push harder with the better knee (not always the same one) and coast some.

    Another downside (sort of; really just not optimal) is that I have pretty muscular legs. When I have ridden recently I did not have trouble with some fairly long steep climbs (in low gear, but still had me burning). But I am paying the price for the aggressive climbs with knee pain. I really need upper body work. I may have to carefully try barbells and stay below what causes a flare.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    CarvedTones wrote: »
    Another downside (sort of; really just not optimal) is that I have pretty muscular legs. When I have ridden recently I did not have trouble with some fairly long steep climbs (in low gear, but still had me burning). But I am paying the price for the aggressive climbs with knee pain.

    i gotcha. being a cyclist i know the whole 'tight quads' thing. you MIGHT find that that improves if you work to bring up your hamstrings and glutes to the same general strength level, for what that's worth. it depends on the type of knee pain and of course all the ymmv stuff applies. but i have most definitely been there with way overactive quads causing me to think that i'd ruined my knees. stretching them out does help - just be careful with some because it's also possible to stretch the front of your hip capsule instead of the muscle itself. but balancing the strength front to back has been a big helper for me.

    with cycling, i'm on my third or fourth 'real' bike by this point and i absolutely hold out for at least 27 gears. might not be what everyone needs, and it's not even what i need a lot of the time. but i want the range for the times and the routes where it is what i need.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    i'll mention that i love lifting because there's a component to it that is almost meditative. certainly it's possible to wreck yourself, at least temporarily. but most of the time, i take four times as long to settle my setup just right as i take to do the actual rep i've been setting up for. unlike a ride up a hard hill, you can take all the time that you need to interrogate the various muscles and tendons etc, and make sure that they're all in a nice solid place before you add load onto them. try to do that on a bike and you'll fall down :tongue:

    may be info overload at this point, but as far as lifting programmes go: i started with linear 5x5 and then 3x5 programmes, then did the wendler 5/3/1 for the best part of a year. but i've had one joint/soft tissue thing or another going on pretty much all of this year, and my trainer recently switched me onto something he says he often uses for 'rehab' people. it's called the hepburn solution, if you're curious. idk if it's appropriate for a newbie, but i'm pretty close to becoming a rabid fan of 'short' sets for people with joint and connective tissues to try and care for.
  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,486 Member
    @canadianlbs, just had a look at the Hepburn Method and really like the look of it.

    I have been doing AllPro which is a rep before weight progression routine also, but with 2 warm up sets and 2 working sets (8-12 rep) and a heavy, medium, and light day, and have been feeling a bit burnt out lately. I think, not sure yet, I may switch to this for a few months just to give myself a break.

    I think it could be an excellent programme for the (ahmmm) older beginner. :)

    Thanks for posting about it.

    Here is a link to the version I'm looking at is it similar to what you are doing?

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/extreme-powerbuilding-doug-hepburn.html

    Cheers, h.
    Sorry for the slight detour on your thread @CarvedTones.
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    canadianlbs wrote: »
    CarvedTones wrote: »
    Another downside (sort of; really just not optimal) is that I have pretty muscular legs. When I have ridden recently I did not have trouble with some fairly long steep climbs (in low gear, but still had me burning). But I am paying the price for the aggressive climbs with knee pain.

    i gotcha. being a cyclist i know the whole 'tight quads' thing. you MIGHT find that that improves if you work to bring up your hamstrings and glutes to the same general strength level, for what that's worth. it depends on the type of knee pain and of course all the ymmv stuff applies. but i have most definitely been there with way overactive quads causing me to think that i'd ruined my knees. stretching them out does help - just be careful with some because it's also possible to stretch the front of your hip capsule instead of the muscle itself. but balancing the strength front to back has been a big helper for me.

    with cycling, i'm on my third or fourth 'real' bike by this point and i absolutely hold out for at least 27 gears. might not be what everyone needs, and it's not even what i need a lot of the time. but i want the range for the times and the routes where it is what i need.

    The knee pain is two fold - when the surgeon showed me photos he explained that he didn't really fix the meniscus, he just cleaned it up so it wouldn't overlap at the worst tear and the other tears didn't have such ragged edges, then he trimmed the frayed edge off of the patella. So that can still get pain. But he also took a picture of arthritis on the way out and warned me that no one is doing anything about that.

    So low impact but also no motions that might grind if your meniscus looks like Swiss cheese.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    When you say tone, do you mean you want to look firmer? That's achieved by lowering body fat. In other words losing weight. Of course it also helps if you have decent lean mass under that fat too.
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    middlehaitch wrote: »
    Here is a link to the version I'm looking at is it similar to what you are doing?

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/extreme-powerbuilding-doug-hepburn.html

    yup, that's the one. i did the 8-rep test to find my work weight, and it took my ego a little talking to accept the whole thing. that combination of 'light' weight AND short sets really made me feel like i was admitting to certain things. such as that i'm not 'really' a 'lifter' right now :tongue: even worse when i started to do it for real and discovered that yeah; even 8 doubles isn't the laugher i thought it would be. i'd say it took until about the middle of that first cycle before i felt i was picking up speed.

    it's been worth it though. don't quote me as it's just a guess, but my layman's idea is that it's been great for me because wendler worked so well that my muscles were starting to outgrow their own tendons and ligaments. most of what i'm fighting with feels like overuse/strain, so for whatever reason it does feel like this programme is giving them time to catch up. i'm seeing it as a sort of c25k for lifters, i guess. some of the stuff that i've noticed, although again this has only been cycle 1:

    - seems to make a difference when your setup-to-rep ratio is so low. and with short sets, i find my form has no time to drift or creep either. so probably a higher proportion of my reps are 'good'.
    - power seems to develop differently. in most other programmes, i get stronger, in terms of absolute weight i can move. but my tank gets progressively smaller as the workout goes on. with this one, it honestly felt like it grew. that took about half a cycle before i was feeling it, but by the time i was over the halfway mark i also started noticing that the workouts themselves would feel like i was picking up strength after i'd done the fourth set.
    - i did 'cheat' by doing the triples up front. just to get them out of the way :tongue: but now that i'm reflecting more on that previous point, i may go back to the implied patterning for this next go-round and tack them on from the last set 'forwards' instead.
    - i'm getting a lot of that very specific wow-this-is-heavy-but-i-totally-got-it feeling. hard to describe but if you've ever had it, you'll know what i mean.
    - also noted that my sticking points seem to be getting smoothed out. hey, a person can always hope.
    CarvedTones wrote: »
    So low impact but also no motions that might grind if your meniscus looks like Swiss cheese.

    ouch yes; cartilage isn't something i've had to fret about (yet). i'm not sure what the prognosis or options are for that, because inflammatory is more my zone than the osteo type.
  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,486 Member
    Thanks for the feed back @canadianlbs.
    I'm sat writing it into my workout book and think I will make the switch next week.

    The progression is closer to AllPro than a 5x5, 5x3 so I am hoping that I will move over without much stress. I will probably enjoy not having the 2x12 day anymore. They were killing me, despite their infrequency.

    It says not to do accessory work too, but I am wondering if you do any.

    (You can PM me if you wish so we don't take the thread off topic.)

    Cheers, h.
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    When you say tone, do you mean you want to look firmer? That's achieved by lowering body fat. In other words losing weight. Of course it also helps if you have decent lean mass under that fat too.

    I have been losing weight like a madman. Too quickly and that's why I need to tone up better. I have lost 32 pounds, from obese into just overweight. I can't tell you how quick because I got a warning for talking about unsafe dieting and a possible disorder. I plan to lose another 25, into the healthy range, but slower (like a sane human) and with exercise.
  • ashlee_g
    ashlee_g Posts: 20 Member
    edited November 2017
    I have had arthroscopy on both knees. I love using an elliptical machine. I bought a commercial quality one second hand refurbished (Technogym Excite 700 Crosstrainer only $700 second hand 4yrs old). It is amazing. It gets my heart rate up, increasing my fitness and burning a lot of calories. I’ve lost almost 40 kilos so far. I can’t recommend it enough if you suffer from knee problems.
  • CarvedTones
    CarvedTones Posts: 2,340 Member
    edited November 2017
    Ellipticals are nice and low impact. Congratulations on the weight loss! Having lost so much, you are no doubt aware that you lose far more in the kitchen than in the gym; you can't outrun your fork. Upping my calorie burn would be nice. I don't have space in the house or budget for an elliptical right now, though.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    edited November 2017
    Also- I got my posters a little confused- but this very much applies to OP. Lots of limitations- go see a therapist and a professional.
    hyIianprincess wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    hyIianprincess wrote: »
    I have arthritis too pretty much everywhere as well. I use therabands (not for long periods since gripping makes me stiff) and ankle/wrist weights. It's not a lot of resistance, but I feel like I've built a little bit of muscle. I would also suggest yoga or even pilates. Pilates was great, but I had to stop during my latest flare.

    Barbell training is more effective than therabands for stiff hands/fingers.

    You wouldn't build any muscle with bands though. Might notice a very slight strength gain though as you adapt to the resistance.

    I’m sure it does but I personally can’t due to being extremely hyper mobile. I have dislocations daily. I have to keep it light. But yeah, I haven’t noticed a significant amount of muscle from therabands, but that’s what my PT therapist is having me do


    You have a lot of limitations that go well beyond the scope of an internet forum.

    You have a therapist- use them- that's what they are there for.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    Also- I got my posters a little confused- but this very much applies to OP. Lots of limitations- go see a therapist and a professional.
    hyIianprincess wrote: »
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    hyIianprincess wrote: »
    I have arthritis too pretty much everywhere as well. I use therabands (not for long periods since gripping makes me stiff) and ankle/wrist weights. It's not a lot of resistance, but I feel like I've built a little bit of muscle. I would also suggest yoga or even pilates. Pilates was great, but I had to stop during my latest flare.

    Barbell training is more effective than therabands for stiff hands/fingers.

    You wouldn't build any muscle with bands though. Might notice a very slight strength gain though as you adapt to the resistance.

    I’m sure it does but I personally can’t due to being extremely hyper mobile. I have dislocations daily. I have to keep it light. But yeah, I haven’t noticed a significant amount of muscle from therabands, but that’s what my PT therapist is having me do


    You have a lot of limitations that go well beyond the scope of an internet forum.

    You have a therapist- use them- that's what they are there for.


    I agree that a internet forum wouldnt be my first choice but neither would a therapist. Though it's unpopular believe a therapist who utilizes therabands and refuse to use barbell training(usually because they don't understand the benefits) are pretty worthless. This is the case far too often.

    Ever since switching back to barbell training, I've only dislocated twice in the past three years, opposed to every therapist session for months.

    I would advice a doctor who not only practices barbell training, but coaches it as well and has experience with this dx.
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