Sugar ,carbs & cholesterol
dsboohead
Posts: 1,899 Member
Newest published research stating that high cholesterol is not caused by meat products but high sugar and high carb diets? Maybe its old news but my doctor just pulled it out.
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Replies
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There must be something floating around out there, because when my husband's cholesterol came back borderline high, his doctor told him to cut down on carbs. Seemed odd to me. From everything I've read, if you're not a healthy weight already, getting there will have the greatest impact on cholesterol. For both healthy and overweight individuals though, I've see exercise as the number one recommendation for lowering cholesterol. Of course, genetics is a huge factor as well.1
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The problem is always this attempt to give one associated reason. There are many factors that impact cholesterol..heredity is big...so is being overweight...so is a lack of activity and living sedentary lives.
From a dietary perspective, I don't think anyone can just say it's just sugar or carbs or animal products, etc...from what I've read and researched, from a dietary perspective, it has more to do with the SAD being a very unhealthy and unbalanced diet that is lacking in whole food nutrition (including many quality whole food carbohydrates)...a diet low in plant matter, and a diet that is highly revolved around highly processed pre-packaged food goods that provide little in the way of nutrition, particularly relative to the calories.
If you look at vegans and vegetarians, they don't typically have cholesterol issues and they tend towards higher carb diets...but they also tend towards simply eating healthier all the way around , particularly compared to the SAD.8 -
There must be something floating around out there, because when my husband's cholesterol came back borderline high, his doctor told him to cut down on carbs. Seemed odd to me. From everything I've read, if you're not a healthy weight already, getting there will have the greatest impact on cholesterol. For both healthy and overweight individuals though, I've see exercise as the number one recommendation for lowering cholesterol. Of course, genetics is a huge factor as well.
Yes genetics is a factor!0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »The problem is always this attempt to give one associated reason. There are many factors that impact cholesterol..heredity is big...so is being overweight...so is a lack of activity and living sedentary lives.
From a dietary perspective, I don't think anyone can just say it's just sugar or carbs or animal products, etc...from what I've read and researched, from a dietary perspective, it has more to do with the SAD being a very unhealthy and unbalanced diet that is lacking in whole food nutrition (including many quality whole food carbohydrates)...a diet low in plant matter, and a diet that is highly revolved around highly processed pre-packaged food goods that provide little in the way of nutrition, particularly relative to the calories.
If you look at vegans and vegetarians, they don't typically have cholesterol issues and they tend towards higher carb diets...but they also tend towards simply eating healthier all the way around , particularly compared to the SAD.
You are correct in all of this thinking but bad cholesterol has always been focused on animal products.0 -
I have worked in an adventist medical community for years. The large population is vegan and vegetarian but are they without cholesterol issues....no. I believe animal proteins have been replaced with carbs and sweets.
As you stated, genetics, lack of exercise ,high carb diet and stress is a factor of this high cholesterol not animal protein.
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Silly to talk about high carb diet without specifying the type of carbs/diet as a whole. Also, not true that sat fat has nothing to do with cholesterol. Many people's cholesterol may not respond to diet, but sat fat plays a role for some. My dad lowered his by cutting out red meat and cutting way down on dairy fat. (He was not overweight and has always exercised.)4
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That cholesterol or fat in your food causes poor cholesterol is a myth that just won't die fast enough, IMO
As a very general rule, if you cut carbs and increase fats:- HDL goes up as you cut carbs (mainly refined and highly processed carbs but plants still apply) and increase fats.
- LDL usually stays about the same. It goes up in some and down in others.
- LDL particle size improves and becomes less dense.
- Triglycerides drop.
- Saturated fat does not negatively affect cholesterol or CAD
There is a very small minority who have hypercholesterolemia who will experience raised cholesterol levels on a high fat diet. It's partially on those people for whom the cholesterol recommendations for all were based. Sort of like saying no one should eat wheat because of what it does to celiacs...
And then there is the fact that many now believe that cholesterol levels have nothing to do with CAD, beyond that very small minority. It is not so much a causation as a correlation. Nevermind the fact that some groups have improved mortality with slightly elevated cholesterol.
This is an interesting n=1 experiment by someone who experiment with very high fat diets. As fat went up, cholesterol improved. Every time. This includes a dozen others who did the same experiment. Cholesterol improved within days of adding fat to the diet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZu52duIqno 3 -
Cutting sat fat and overall fat as well as dietary cholesterol, increasing activity, and lowering my weight worked for me.
I have familial hypercholesterolemia, and it's not a myth for those of us who have it.
Additionally? The man in that video is hardly a reliable source.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Cutting sat fat and overall fat as well as dietary cholesterol, increasing activity, and lowering my weight worked for me.
I have familial hypercholesterolemia, and it's not a myth for those of us who have it.
Additionally? The man in that video is hardly a reliable source.
I agree that fat-cholesterol links are not a myth for those with your disorder, but it is a small minority and not a relevant to normal individuals.
And the man in the video presented a well done n=1. I don't believe he ever says that it will be true in all circumstances and for all people.... but his results were consistent among everyone who tried a very high fat diet.2 -
I have worked in an adventist medical community for years. The large population is vegan and vegetarian but are they without cholesterol issues....no. I believe animal proteins have been replaced with carbs and sweets.
As you stated, genetics, lack of exercise ,high carb diet and stress is a factor of this high cholesterol not animal protein.
But the actual population level evidence on cholesterol levels in Adventists (males, anyway) doesn't match your personal observations: https://publichealth.llu.edu/adventist-health-studies/findings/findings-past-studies/findings-coronary-heart-disease
Adventists aren't *free* of high cholesterol levels, but there is a difference between them and the general population. They demonstrate lower levels of cholesterol issues, although the causes may be more complex than diet alone.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Cutting sat fat and overall fat as well as dietary cholesterol, increasing activity, and lowering my weight worked for me.
I have familial hypercholesterolemia, and it's not a myth for those of us who have it.
Additionally? The man in that video is hardly a reliable source.
I agree that fat-cholesterol links are not a myth for those with your disorder, but it is a small minority and not a relevant to normal individuals.
And the man in the video presented a well done n=1. I don't believe he ever says that it will be true in all circumstances and for all people.... but his results were consistent among everyone who tried a very high fat diet.
It's not that small a minority. It's 1 in 250 people.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/269769140 -
I'm no expert. Cholesterol is produced by the body and some people have a genetic tendency to produce excess amounts. The type of cholesterol also is very important and perhaps key.
Dietary cholesterol appears to have little effect and is coming to be understood as not being too important. It's the cholesterol the body makes itself.
Eating lots of whole eggs (high in cholesterol) has even been shown to be beneficial or a non-issue to cholesterol. Pretty wild as this turns the last 50 years of medical belief on its head.
Unfortunately for those with genetic predisposition to high cholesterol, this leaves them with one less thing they believed they could do to control the problem other than taking statins.
Perhaps the thing to do will be reducing refined carbs in the diet?
The research does seem to indicate a link between sugar, refined carbs, insulin resistance and cholesterol.
There are skinny people with cholesterol problems so it goes beyond BMI. It's genetic with some people and how their body handles cholesterol.
I have only skimmed a few articles about it and may have some facts mixed up so check it out.
Reducing refined carbs (and increasing insulin resistance) which are rampant in the Western diet seems to be worth doing.
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Eating a healthful diet seems to help for some with cholesterol. That means to limit sat fat (and yes it is still relevant and for more than a small minority of the population -- I think it's dietary cholesterol that affects cholesterol in only a minority of the population). Here's a discussion about it from someone I respect, Walter Willett: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/saturated-fats-increased-heart-disease-risk/
It also means to limit refined carbs and industrial seed oils. Replacing sat fat with sugar or extra white flour probably is useless or even harmful, but no one recommends that.
Eating more veg and fruit and whole food sources of fiber is usually beneficial too.
For cholesterol specifically, weight loss (if you need it) and exercise are typically enormously beneficial, of course.
If a doctor ignored all this and just said to cut carbs, I'd ask questions, because that would set off my warning bells.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Eating a healthful diet seems to help for some with cholesterol. That means to limit sat fat (and yes it is still relevant and for more than a small minority of the population -- I think it's dietary cholesterol that affects cholesterol in only a minority of the population). Here's a discussion about it from someone I respect, Walter Willett: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/saturated-fats-increased-heart-disease-risk/
It also means to limit refined carbs and industrial seed oils. Replacing sat fat with sugar or extra white flour probably is useless or even harmful, but no one recommends that.
Eating more veg and fruit and whole food sources of fiber is usually beneficial too.
For cholesterol specifically, weight loss (if you need it) and exercise are typically enormously beneficial, of course.
If a doctor ignored all this and just said to cut carbs, I'd ask questions, because that would set off my warning bells.
To the bolded, I think the big issue that confuses the results of a lot of demographic or survey studies, regarding cholesterol and many other issues, is that the SAD is high in all the bad stuff and low in all the good stuff. So if you track a group of people, who use almost ANY other way of eating in an effort to improve health markers, they will see improvement. They will be getting less of at least some bad stuff and more of at least some good stuff. Whether it's Mediterranean, Keto, Paleo, DASH, plant-based, LCHF, whatever. Especially if the diet causes them to eat at a better calorie level, because the decrease in weight will take care of a lot of issues all by itself.
So if someone wants to show vegan is best, they put a bunch of overweight people eating SAD with bad health markers on a calorie controlled vegan diet and "surprise!" their numbers improve. Someone else wants to show LCHF is best so they put a bunch of overweight people eating SAD with bad health markers on a calorie controlled LCHF diet and "surprise!" their numbers improve.
In my completely unprofessional opinion
, it's the combination of the high processed carb/high saturated fat/high calorie/low activity SAD diet that needs to be avoided, and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that any movement away from that will most likely improve your cholesterol, your blood sugar, your blood pressure, your weight, your waist, etc. 5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Cutting sat fat and overall fat as well as dietary cholesterol, increasing activity, and lowering my weight worked for me.
I have familial hypercholesterolemia, and it's not a myth for those of us who have it.
Additionally? The man in that video is hardly a reliable source.
I agree that fat-cholesterol links are not a myth for those with your disorder, but it is a small minority and not a relevant to normal individuals.
And the man in the video presented a well done n=1. I don't believe he ever says that it will be true in all circumstances and for all people.... but his results were consistent among everyone who tried a very high fat diet.
It's not that small a minority. It's 1 in 250 people.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26976914
I consider less than half a percent of all people as a small minority. Our definitions of the term "small minority" differ.
I just don't think that dietary recommendations concerning cholesterol and fat in food should have been based upon the experiences of about 0.4% of the population. Sort of like saying everyone should avoid gluten because of the 1 in 133 who are celiacs. That makes no sense for 99% of people.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Eating a healthful diet seems to help for some with cholesterol. That means to limit sat fat (and yes it is still relevant and for more than a small minority of the population -- I think it's dietary cholesterol that affects cholesterol in only a minority of the population). Here's a discussion about it from someone I respect, Walter Willett: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/saturated-fats-increased-heart-disease-risk/
It also means to limit refined carbs and industrial seed oils. Replacing sat fat with sugar or extra white flour probably is useless or even harmful, but no one recommends that.
Eating more veg and fruit and whole food sources of fiber is usually beneficial too.
For cholesterol specifically, weight loss (if you need it) and exercise are typically enormously beneficial, of course.
If a doctor ignored all this and just said to cut carbs, I'd ask questions, because that would set off my warning bells.
To the bolded, I think the big issue that confuses the results of a lot of demographic or survey studies, regarding cholesterol and many other issues, is that the SAD is high in all the bad stuff and low in all the good stuff. So if you track a group of people, who use almost ANY other way of eating in an effort to improve health markers, they will see improvement. They will be getting less of at least some bad stuff and more of at least some good stuff. Whether it's Mediterranean, Keto, Paleo, DASH, plant-based, LCHF, whatever. Especially if the diet causes them to eat at a better calorie level, because the decrease in weight will take care of a lot of issues all by itself.
So if someone wants to show vegan is best, they put a bunch of overweight people eating SAD with bad health markers on a calorie controlled vegan diet and "surprise!" their numbers improve. Someone else wants to show LCHF is best so they put a bunch of overweight people eating SAD with bad health markers on a calorie controlled LCHF diet and "surprise!" their numbers improve.
In my completely unprofessional opinion, it's the combination of the high processed carb/high saturated fat/high calorie/low activity SAD diet that needs to be avoided, and I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that any movement away from that will most likely improve your cholesterol, your blood sugar, your blood pressure, your weight, your waist, etc.
Yes to all of this.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Cutting sat fat and overall fat as well as dietary cholesterol, increasing activity, and lowering my weight worked for me.
I have familial hypercholesterolemia, and it's not a myth for those of us who have it.
Additionally? The man in that video is hardly a reliable source.
I agree that fat-cholesterol links are not a myth for those with your disorder, but it is a small minority and not a relevant to normal individuals.
And the man in the video presented a well done n=1. I don't believe he ever says that it will be true in all circumstances and for all people.... but his results were consistent among everyone who tried a very high fat diet.
It's not that small a minority. It's 1 in 250 people.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26976914
I consider less than half a percent of all people as a small minority. Our definitions of the term "small minority" differ.
I just don't think that dietary recommendations concerning cholesterol and fat in food should have been based upon the experiences of about 0.4% of the population. Sort of like saying everyone should avoid gluten because of the 1 in 133 who are celiacs. That makes no sense for 99% of people.
Fair enough. But... there's that pesky link lemurcat posted about CAD (something you mentioned as not being influenced) and sat fat and that's not a small minority of people.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Cutting sat fat and overall fat as well as dietary cholesterol, increasing activity, and lowering my weight worked for me.
I have familial hypercholesterolemia, and it's not a myth for those of us who have it.
Additionally? The man in that video is hardly a reliable source.
I agree that fat-cholesterol links are not a myth for those with your disorder, but it is a small minority and not a relevant to normal individuals.
And the man in the video presented a well done n=1. I don't believe he ever says that it will be true in all circumstances and for all people.... but his results were consistent among everyone who tried a very high fat diet.
It's not that small a minority. It's 1 in 250 people.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26976914
I consider less than half a percent of all people as a small minority. Our definitions of the term "small minority" differ.
I just don't think that dietary recommendations concerning cholesterol and fat in food should have been based upon the experiences of about 0.4% of the population. Sort of like saying everyone should avoid gluten because of the 1 in 133 who are celiacs. That makes no sense for 99% of people.
Fair enough. But... there's that pesky link lemurcat posted about CAD (something you mentioned as not being influenced) and sat fat and that's not a small minority of people.
I missed that post.
The article shows a possible correlation (not cause) of CAD to saturated fats, but it is not big numbers. I am not great in statistics but saturated fats appears, in some groups, to have an increased risk of cad of around 6-8%? So if one has a 10% risk (in the lower risk group) then your risk factor could rise to 10.8%, I believe.
I do agree with lemur's post that not all carbs are created equal. Highly refined and processed carbs are a much more problematic food than broccoli. A big understatement. Vegetables and fruits (if one has no IR issues) are not problem foods. Sugars and baked goods (high in refined carbs and fat - a poor combination for health) are not usually contributors to improved health.
And exercise also helps greatly, of course. No arguments there.1
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