Best stretches before a run ?
staceypineda87
Posts: 3 Member
What are the best quick stretches to do before a run to avoid shin splints and knee pain? Trying to get back into running asap
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Replies
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Dynamic warmup. 30 body weight squats. Lunges... 30 forward, 30 reverse, 30 side1
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I don't stretch before I run.
You need to know what actually causes the knee pain? Mine was ligament damage that needed rest and strengthening exercises for other parts of my legs.1 -
staceypineda87 wrote: »What are the best quick stretches to do before a run to avoid shin splints and knee pain? Trying to get back into running asap
Stretches before a run aren't going to address either shin splints or knee pain. Both of those are more affected by running gait, frequency and distance and the condition of your footwear.8 -
Don’t stretch when cold and don’t over-stretch. Make sure you’ve warmed up first!
I think stretching will help but not just thinking about it before/after a run. That’s good but you likely need to do more during the day.
Knee pain can be caused by all sorts of things, it’s a complex joint! It can be caused by muscle imbalance, for instance pulling on the knee cap, causing it to track slightly off can generate pain. Generally though, stretching might help to a degree with some relief and or protection but you’re not getting to the root cause - gait, strength, footwear. Best bet is to see a sports physio or similar who can review your mechanics and advise of corrective actions.
In my experience, I’ve had a number of issues since I started running and most of this is gait related (another story there). Anyway, I’m into my 3rd month of weekly physio and I’ve got some specific stretching to carry out during the day, strengthening exercises and a weekly sorts massage on my leg to help loosen up. It’s working and I’m less prone to get the aches and pains I once did. Point is, it’s a lot more than just stretching before a run.
Hope this helps and whatever wish you all the best!1 -
staceypineda87 wrote: »What are the best quick stretches to do before a run to avoid shin splints and knee pain? Trying to get back into running asap
No stretches. Proper shoes, slow down, don't go too far too soon.
Do you already have these issues or are you just trying to avoid them in the future???0 -
Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.0
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Slow down. These types of injuries can come from doing too much too soon. Are you following a learn to run program such as C25K?0
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staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Assuming by proper you mean you got fitted at a real running store...
Besides slowing down and not going as far, check your form. Your feet should be landing under your body (not far out in front). You steps should be quick and light. You arms should swing freely with your body (not across it) and you posture should be straight (no leaning forward at the back).
You should also consider cross training. Do something to strengthen your legs and core.
And don't forget to take days off. Rest is very important.
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staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Many times shin splints have to do with the fact many people starting running, and especially if well padded heels that encourage it - heel land hard.
That forces the front of the foot down hard, and it was being held up by the muscles along the shin.
That is called eccentric resistance, muscle under tension but being forced to stretch by the weight load - and it is a great way to strengthen/gain muscle because it does so much damage to it that requires repair.
But that's for a few sets and some reps - not 2000 or more impacts at body weight for a little muscle.
That's a whole lot of damage.
Hence the pain.
And repair time.
After you have healed up completely, change stride so landing more flat footed, not on heel with leg in front of you.
The common slapping of the forefoot coming down is NOT a good sound.
Here's the visual of what is happening. And not saying to do this move, though it could help anyway while running correctly to not do it there.
So when you land with foot too far in front and mainly on heel, you are same position has the guy with toes up in air, and weight of the sled forces the toes down just like your body weight does, he engages the muscle to raise them back up.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TibialisAnterior/LV45ReverseCalfPress.html
Dittos to encouragement to not stretch cold, and likely not prior unless warmed up first. But after can be good.
Just walk for warmup - 5 to 10 min perhaps.0 -
staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Many times shin splints have to do with the fact many people starting running, and especially if well padded heels that encourage it - heel land hard.
That forces the front of the foot down hard, and it was being held up by the muscles along the shin.
That is called eccentric resistance, muscle under tension but being forced to stretch by the weight load - and it is a great way to strengthen/gain muscle because it does so much damage to it that requires repair.
But that's for a few sets and some reps - not 2000 or more impacts at body weight for a little muscle.
That's a whole lot of damage.
Hence the pain.
And repair time.
After you have healed up completely, change stride so landing more flat footed, not on heel with leg in front of you.
The common slapping of the forefoot coming down is NOT a good sound.
Here's the visual of what is happening. And not saying to do this move, though it could help anyway while running correctly to not do it there.
So when you land with foot too far in front and mainly on heel, you are same position has the guy with toes up in air, and weight of the sled forces the toes down just like your body weight does, he engages the muscle to raise them back up.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TibialisAnterior/LV45ReverseCalfPress.html
Dittos to encouragement to not stretch cold, and likely not prior unless warmed up first. But after can be good.
Just walk for warmup - 5 to 10 min perhaps.
FWIW, I completely disagree with this advice. Many top runners land on their heels. I land somewhat on my heel. It is not a problem. Landing too far in front of your body is the issue.
Purposely changing the way you land can lead to injury in a different part of the body. I'd personally rather deal with a shin splint than a blown out achillies.1 -
If you are already wearing shoes from a running store, fitted by staff who watched you run, then see it's time to see a physiotherapist or a sports doctor. As was said, there are numerous causes of shin & knee pain, each with their own treatment.
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My daughter overcame shin splints with orthotics and shifting gaits as she ran. She used her body as her guide. The best stretches are after the run when everything threatens to tighten up.0
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staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Many times shin splints have to do with the fact many people starting running, and especially if well padded heels that encourage it - heel land hard.
That forces the front of the foot down hard, and it was being held up by the muscles along the shin.
That is called eccentric resistance, muscle under tension but being forced to stretch by the weight load - and it is a great way to strengthen/gain muscle because it does so much damage to it that requires repair.
But that's for a few sets and some reps - not 2000 or more impacts at body weight for a little muscle.
That's a whole lot of damage.
Hence the pain.
And repair time.
After you have healed up completely, change stride so landing more flat footed, not on heel with leg in front of you.
The common slapping of the forefoot coming down is NOT a good sound.
Here's the visual of what is happening. And not saying to do this move, though it could help anyway while running correctly to not do it there.
So when you land with foot too far in front and mainly on heel, you are same position has the guy with toes up in air, and weight of the sled forces the toes down just like your body weight does, he engages the muscle to raise them back up.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TibialisAnterior/LV45ReverseCalfPress.html
Dittos to encouragement to not stretch cold, and likely not prior unless warmed up first. But after can be good.
Just walk for warmup - 5 to 10 min perhaps.
FWIW, I completely disagree with this advice. Many top runners land on their heels. I land somewhat on my heel. It is not a problem. Landing too far in front of your body is the issue.
Purposely changing the way you land can lead to injury in a different part of the body. I'd personally rather deal with a shin splint than a blown out achillies.
I'd love to see some video of top runners landing on heels, the higher turn-over required for efficient form almost prevents it, and even when it wouldn't it just turns out not as useful.
I've seen many stride analysis done, and I know it could not have included all top runners, so I'd be very interested in seeing some on them.
As far as changing stride, people do it all the time - different shoes sometimes make them do it.
The problem is not backing down the intensity when it's done, and building back up. I've been in good stores and heard them remind a newbie to do just such a thing if they were actually running a decent amount, after they got new shoes.
Just like lifting and you get to higher weight on a lift and discover some aspect of form has been bad for a while.
You back down in weight, sometimes a lot, and redo with better form while moving weight on up.0 -
You're not meant to stretch cold muscles. After a run, you can do some heel drop stretches on the edge of a step. Beginners or people coming back to running often get shin splints by doing too much too soon, it takes a little time for your muscles to adapt.0
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staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Many times shin splints have to do with the fact many people starting running, and especially if well padded heels that encourage it - heel land hard.
That forces the front of the foot down hard, and it was being held up by the muscles along the shin.
That is called eccentric resistance, muscle under tension but being forced to stretch by the weight load - and it is a great way to strengthen/gain muscle because it does so much damage to it that requires repair.
But that's for a few sets and some reps - not 2000 or more impacts at body weight for a little muscle.
That's a whole lot of damage.
Hence the pain.
And repair time.
After you have healed up completely, change stride so landing more flat footed, not on heel with leg in front of you.
The common slapping of the forefoot coming down is NOT a good sound.
Here's the visual of what is happening. And not saying to do this move, though it could help anyway while running correctly to not do it there.
So when you land with foot too far in front and mainly on heel, you are same position has the guy with toes up in air, and weight of the sled forces the toes down just like your body weight does, he engages the muscle to raise them back up.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TibialisAnterior/LV45ReverseCalfPress.html
Dittos to encouragement to not stretch cold, and likely not prior unless warmed up first. But after can be good.
Just walk for warmup - 5 to 10 min perhaps.
FWIW, I completely disagree with this advice. Many top runners land on their heels. I land somewhat on my heel. It is not a problem. Landing too far in front of your body is the issue.
Purposely changing the way you land can lead to injury in a different part of the body. I'd personally rather deal with a shin splint than a blown out achillies.
I'd love to see some video of top runners landing on heels, the higher turn-over required for efficient form almost prevents it, and even when it wouldn't it just turns out not as useful.
I've seen many stride analysis done, and I know it could not have included all top runners, so I'd be very interested in seeing some on them.
As far as changing stride, people do it all the time - different shoes sometimes make them do it.
The problem is not backing down the intensity when it's done, and building back up. I've been in good stores and heard them remind a newbie to do just such a thing if they were actually running a decent amount, after they got new shoes.
Just like lifting and you get to higher weight on a lift and discover some aspect of form has been bad for a while.
You back down in weight, sometimes a lot, and redo with better form while moving weight on up.
Jumping in too fast too soon rather than tapering up properly is what invariably does it for me.0 -
staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Assuming by proper you mean you got fitted at a real running store...
I'm not going to assume that. I know my shin splint issues were solved by going to a running store and having a gait analysis done. I had good shoes (UA even) but they had the wrong support for my feet. Having shoes with the proper support made the shin splints go away.
OP, if you haven't had a gait analysis done, please do so. Good shoes are not enough. They need to be good and suited to your needs.
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staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Many times shin splints have to do with the fact many people starting running, and especially if well padded heels that encourage it - heel land hard.
That forces the front of the foot down hard, and it was being held up by the muscles along the shin.
That is called eccentric resistance, muscle under tension but being forced to stretch by the weight load - and it is a great way to strengthen/gain muscle because it does so much damage to it that requires repair.
But that's for a few sets and some reps - not 2000 or more impacts at body weight for a little muscle.
That's a whole lot of damage.
Hence the pain.
And repair time.
After you have healed up completely, change stride so landing more flat footed, not on heel with leg in front of you.
The common slapping of the forefoot coming down is NOT a good sound.
Here's the visual of what is happening. And not saying to do this move, though it could help anyway while running correctly to not do it there.
So when you land with foot too far in front and mainly on heel, you are same position has the guy with toes up in air, and weight of the sled forces the toes down just like your body weight does, he engages the muscle to raise them back up.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TibialisAnterior/LV45ReverseCalfPress.html
Dittos to encouragement to not stretch cold, and likely not prior unless warmed up first. But after can be good.
Just walk for warmup - 5 to 10 min perhaps.
FWIW, I completely disagree with this advice. Many top runners land on their heels. I land somewhat on my heel. It is not a problem. Landing too far in front of your body is the issue.
Purposely changing the way you land can lead to injury in a different part of the body. I'd personally rather deal with a shin splint than a blown out achillies.
I'd love to see some video of top runners landing on heels, the higher turn-over required for efficient form almost prevents it, and even when it wouldn't it just turns out not as useful.
I've seen many stride analysis done, and I know it could not have included all top runners, so I'd be very interested in seeing some on them.
As far as changing stride, people do it all the time - different shoes sometimes make them do it.
The problem is not backing down the intensity when it's done, and building back up. I've been in good stores and heard them remind a newbie to do just such a thing if they were actually running a decent amount, after they got new shoes.
Just like lifting and you get to higher weight on a lift and discover some aspect of form has been bad for a while.
You back down in weight, sometimes a lot, and redo with better form while moving weight on up.
Here ya go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTo7zVGBbVc
I highly recommend Your Best Stride by Jonathan Beverly. He dispels many of the recent fads and offers common sense advice.
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I'd love to see some video of top runners landing on heels, the higher turn-over required for efficient form almost prevents it, and even when it wouldn't it just turns out not as useful.
I've seen many stride analysis done, and I know it could not have included all top runners, so I'd be very interested in seeing some on them.
As far as changing stride, people do it all the time - different shoes sometimes make them do it.
The problem is not backing down the intensity when it's done, and building back up. I've been in good stores and heard them remind a newbie to do just such a thing if they were actually running a decent amount, after they got new shoes.
Just like lifting and you get to higher weight on a lift and discover some aspect of form has been bad for a while.
You back down in weight, sometimes a lot, and redo with better form while moving weight on up.
I read some stuff, maybe a year or so ago, about some research that had been done on sustaining a forefoot stride in middle to longer distance races. Fairly small sample sizes, but essentially filming the pack in the first km and then 10km, 16km, 21km etc in. They had a reasonable loss rate, as in not capturing a proportion of the sample at the later points, but the proportion of forefoot strikers seems to be negligible by the 10km point.
I think the conclusion was related to fatigue, particularly when you're talking about small muscles rather than the prime movers in the glutes, hams and quads.
Notwithstanding all of that, rather than recommending midfoot or forefoot running I've found some success in encouraging the principle of landing under the centre of mass. That in itself seems to encourage a more midfoot strike.
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Stretch after the run, not before. Skip the pre-run stretch and make sure you get a decent warm-up instead.0
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »I'd love to see some video of top runners landing on heels, the higher turn-over required for efficient form almost prevents it, and even when it wouldn't it just turns out not as useful.
I've seen many stride analysis done, and I know it could not have included all top runners, so I'd be very interested in seeing some on them.
As far as changing stride, people do it all the time - different shoes sometimes make them do it.
The problem is not backing down the intensity when it's done, and building back up. I've been in good stores and heard them remind a newbie to do just such a thing if they were actually running a decent amount, after they got new shoes.
Just like lifting and you get to higher weight on a lift and discover some aspect of form has been bad for a while.
You back down in weight, sometimes a lot, and redo with better form while moving weight on up.
I read some stuff, maybe a year or so ago, about some research that had been done on sustaining a forefoot stride in middle to longer distance races. Fairly small sample sizes, but essentially filming the pack in the first km and then 10km, 16km, 21km etc in. They had a reasonable loss rate, as in not capturing a proportion of the sample at the later points, but the proportion of forefoot strikers seems to be negligible by the 10km point.
I think the conclusion was related to fatigue, particularly when you're talking about small muscles rather than the prime movers in the glutes, hams and quads.
Notwithstanding all of that, rather than recommending midfoot or forefoot running I've found some success in encouraging the principle of landing under the centre of mass. That in itself seems to encourage a more midfoot strike.
Ya, forefoot is usually short fast 5K, maybe up to 10K if really a fast pace. Or surge at end.
That's why I said flat footed since mid-foot might not be understood by new runner.
Like this, examining the differences in turnover and stride length, but still the same landing pattern.
https://youtu.be/UVl1xgOdT-M
Part 1 available in the notes and is very good too.
This type of analysis shows how even the look of heel landing really isn't truly. As you mention, right under the body as the weight is actually applied.
Good point about just trying to land right under body for newbie though, even slow pace without the form benefits of faster can understand that probably.0 -
staceypineda87 wrote: »Yes I do currently have these issues.I'm trying heal up before i start running again! I wear proper running shoes but any suggestions on how to avoid these issues in the future again? I am a beginner runner.
Many times shin splints have to do with the fact many people starting running, and especially if well padded heels that encourage it - heel land hard.
That forces the front of the foot down hard, and it was being held up by the muscles along the shin.
That is called eccentric resistance, muscle under tension but being forced to stretch by the weight load - and it is a great way to strengthen/gain muscle because it does so much damage to it that requires repair.
But that's for a few sets and some reps - not 2000 or more impacts at body weight for a little muscle.
That's a whole lot of damage.
Hence the pain.
And repair time.
After you have healed up completely, change stride so landing more flat footed, not on heel with leg in front of you.
The common slapping of the forefoot coming down is NOT a good sound.
Here's the visual of what is happening. And not saying to do this move, though it could help anyway while running correctly to not do it there.
So when you land with foot too far in front and mainly on heel, you are same position has the guy with toes up in air, and weight of the sled forces the toes down just like your body weight does, he engages the muscle to raise them back up.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/TibialisAnterior/LV45ReverseCalfPress.html
Dittos to encouragement to not stretch cold, and likely not prior unless warmed up first. But after can be good.
Just walk for warmup - 5 to 10 min perhaps.
FWIW, I completely disagree with this advice. Many top runners land on their heels. I land somewhat on my heel. It is not a problem. Landing too far in front of your body is the issue.
Purposely changing the way you land can lead to injury in a different part of the body. I'd personally rather deal with a shin splint than a blown out achillies.
I'd love to see some video of top runners landing on heels, the higher turn-over required for efficient form almost prevents it, and even when it wouldn't it just turns out not as useful.
I've seen many stride analysis done, and I know it could not have included all top runners, so I'd be very interested in seeing some on them.
As far as changing stride, people do it all the time - different shoes sometimes make them do it.
The problem is not backing down the intensity when it's done, and building back up. I've been in good stores and heard them remind a newbie to do just such a thing if they were actually running a decent amount, after they got new shoes.
Just like lifting and you get to higher weight on a lift and discover some aspect of form has been bad for a while.
You back down in weight, sometimes a lot, and redo with better form while moving weight on up.
Here ya go.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTo7zVGBbVc
I highly recommend Your Best Stride by Jonathan Beverly. He dispels many of the recent fads and offers common sense advice.
I know not really possible in the video to discern anything, especially since probably almost sprinting at that point.
But the picture was a mere point in time.
But actually looking at a viewing of his technique, is something different.
https://youtu.be/Jb53bSl_HYQ?t=1m12s
Not sure how mid-foot strike is recent fad though, if that's the reference. Been around for long long time since race shoes were barely anything.0 -
Bluepegasus wrote: »You're not meant to stretch cold muscles.
How come other mammals get to do it? That's so unfair!
Besides, muscles are 99 degrees, which is downright hot. 0 -
The 'fad' is having someone completely change they way the land. There's really no point in it. Change the stride to be more efficient and don't worry about the feet. They will take care of themselves. If you land on your heel and purposely try to land on your forefoot, you are moving the impact from the knee to the achilles. If you adjust the stride you are lessening the impact (no matter where it is).0
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I'd love to see some video of top runners landing on heels, the higher turn-over required for efficient form almost prevents it, and even when it wouldn't it just turns out not as useful.
I've seen many stride analysis done, and I know it could not have included all top runners, so I'd be very interested in seeing some on them.
As far as changing stride, people do it all the time - different shoes sometimes make them do it.
The problem is not backing down the intensity when it's done, and building back up. I've been in good stores and heard them remind a newbie to do just such a thing if they were actually running a decent amount, after they got new shoes.
Just like lifting and you get to higher weight on a lift and discover some aspect of form has been bad for a while.
You back down in weight, sometimes a lot, and redo with better form while moving weight on up.
Footstrike doesn't matter. As long as you don't overstride, your body will figure out the most efficient way to run. If you have to think about your form when you run, you're doing it wrong.
Plenty of elites heel strike. There was a study done at the 2004 Sapporro International Half Marathon that analyzed the foot strike of the elite runners. Out of 283 runners, 75% landed on their heels, 24% on their mid-foot, and 1% on their forefoot. The study is mentioned here: http://sportsscientists.com/2008/04/running-technique-the-footstrike/
Here's the abstract of the study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17685722
Here's another study of elite runners at the 5th avenue mile: http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2010/09/how-worlds-best-runners-strike-ground.html
Out of 15 runners, 11 landed mid-foot and 4 heel struck.
One more study of fast runners: http://www.jssm.org/vol9/n1/21/v9n1-21pdf.pdf
"During the initial data collection, 16 out of 20 runners (10 females and 6 males) exhibited a heel strike at the given speeds (Female subjects ran at 4:40 minute per mile pace (5.7 m·s-1), and the males at 3:59 minute per mile pace (6.7 m·s-1)"
Here's a video from the 2010 Boston Marathon, clearing showing Meb as a blatant heel striker.
https://player.vimeo.com/video/11574503
In regards to changing stride, people don't do it all the time. It's a good way to get injured since you're trying to force your body to do something it doesn't naturally want to do. Here's a study of 20 runners that received intensive training on how to run using the Pose Method: http://sportsscientists.com/2007/09/running-technique-part-iii-the-scientific-evidence-for-running-technique/
For a week, 2 hrs a day, the subjects were taught the Pose Method. After about a month, over half of the runners develop achilles/calf problems. The Pose Method along with Chi Running are basically worthless since they seem to advocate a "proper" way to run, which is nonsense.
In regards to the OP, the best way to warm up for running is to run. Also, if you have shin splints and knee pain, it's either your shoes or you're doing too much too soon (going too hard or too far).0 -
You wouldn’t heel strike without shoes, so don’t do it with shoes.1
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ijsantos2005 wrote: »You wouldn’t heel strike without shoes, so don’t do it with shoes.
Well that's not always true either. It is this kind of "common sense" that is dangerous. Sometimes things that seem logical aren't really true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obSX7zlVqK0
Also, if you did not have shoes your feet would look very different. Running and walking would be different.
It is very hard to know how you land without video. To me I feel like I'm landing on my forefoot. But when analyzed I am actually hitting with my heel first.0 -
Good example of the difference between the heel landing straight leg, usually out in front with over-stride that newbies seem to do (from what I've observed), and the better with knee bent still basically center mass, absorbing shock through knee/quad.0
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I have been told different things about running. Some people say stretch before, some people say don't. I personally just do after to make sure more muscles don't go too stiff. Also I start off slow to get my muscles warm
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daisywillwin wrote: »I have been told different things about running. Some people say stretch before, some people say don't. I personally just do after to make sure more muscles don't go too stiff. Also I start off slow to get my muscles warm
If you stretch, do it after. Most runners I know don't bother (including my coach who is an elite level athlete). I do sometimes. I also do yoga and martial arts but not regularly enough to be considered flexible.0
This discussion has been closed.
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