carbs necessary?
Replies
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your body can not survive without sugar
Just out of curiosity, how soon would I die if I ended up on a desert Island with nothing but fish and seaweed to eat? I weigh about 220lb, just me and no other people to cannibalise?
probably quite a long time, because you get protein and healthy fat from the fish, and vitamins and minerals from the seaweed. If you eat a few different kinds of fish and as wide a variety of seaweed as you can, you would probably get most of the nutrients you need. Finding fresh water would present the most immediate survival issue though, as you can't survive drinking seawater. So if you find a fresh water source or figure out how to distill seawater with what you can find on the island, you could probably survive for a long time. If you don't find a source of fresh water, then I'll give you 3 days tops. Less if the climate is particularly harsh, as you'd probably die of heatstroke before you dehydrate.
but seaweed contains carbs0 -
Brain cells can only consume glucose.
Brain cells can only consume 'SO MUCH' glucose
ETA: it stores the rest as gobbledeeegook. It's a known fact :laugh: :laugh:0 -
Use
Your body uses carbohydrates as fuel to get you through your day. When you eat a snack or a meal, your body breaks these large pieces of foods into smaller particles and turns them into simple sugars, which are absorbed into your bloodstream. During digestion, your pancreas releases insulin, which helps move the sugar from your blood into cells allowing your body to use the food as energy. This process tends to happen quickly, according to KidsHealth. Depending upon the type of carbohydrate you've consumed, you may become hungry rather quickly or you can stay full and satisfied for a longer period of time
FROM LIVESTRONG>COM
www.JoyBauer.com
Types
There are two types of carbs: simple and complex. Simple carbs are also known as simple sugars and are not so beneficial for you. Complex carbs are known as starches and are beneficial for you---in limited quantities. Without knowing the difference between the types of carbohydrates, it is easy to be confused as to how they give you energy and how often you should eat them.
Simple Carbohydrates
Simple carbs are found in foods such as milk, apples, grapes, peaches and various other fruits. Simple sugars are used to make refined sugars, such as table sugar, which is used to make candy such as lollipops, cookies and other sweets. There is a difference even in simple sugars. Simple sugars that occur naturally in foods such as apples are far better for you than when they are refined into table sugar. Apples, grapes, cherries and milk offer additional nutrients such as fiber, vitamins A, C and E. Refined sugars found in candies and other junk food offer little to no nutritional value.
Complex Carbohydrates
Complex carbs, or better known as starches, include grain products such as pasta, rice and bread. As with simple carbs, complex carbs can also be refined. Healthy complex carbs include whole grains, whole wheat and brown rice. When complex carbs are refined, they are enriched with various nutrients and additives and turned into white flour and white rice. The refining process removes or strips many of the heart-healthy nutrients that your body needs. Some of the fiber content is lost during the refining process, which is why whole grains typically have more fiber than enriched grains.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com0 -
You're basing that on what?your body can not survive without sugar
Let's look at what the Institute of Medicine has to say about it:
"The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed," according to the "Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids," published by the Institute of Medicine in 2005.
the lowest level of something compatible with life is not the same thing as what's necessary for optimal health. I could keep you alive on a drip locked in a basement tied to a chair, in the dark, doing no exercise, no entertainment and eating nothing, just getting the bare minimum of nutrition from a drip* - you would be alive, but you wouldn't be healthy!! People can survive, barely, in the most horrible circumstances. I've read case studies of people being kept locked up in basements for decades. But they won't be close to optimal health.
*I wouldn't because I'm not that kind of person :flowerforyou: I'm just showing you an extreme example of what "the minimum necessary that's compatible with life" really means in biological terms.
So rather than looking to provide yourself with what's the lowest level of something that's compatible with life, instead aim to provide yourself with what's optimal for health. That means carbohydrates, because exercise is necessary for optimal health, and carbohydrate is necessary to get a decent workout in. Yes you can exercise with zero carbs in your system, long distance runners call that "hitting the wall", but you can sure as anything run a lot faster when you have glucose in your blood. So yes, you can *survive* and *stay alive* without ever eating carbs, but really, why the heck would anyone want to??
OP: YES if you are crashing around 2pm from lack of carbs in your system, eat more carbs!!!
I think there's value in determining the things that are essential -- i.e., needed to live. It should be the basis of any healthy diet. Once you define the things that you absolutely need to intake, then you start going into the ways to take those things in, the things you can eat in addition to it, etc. Without the basis in "things that you need to live" to define the borders of the discussion, the actual discussion becomes quite disarrayed.0 -
The body needs one thing and its called CALORIES which equals ENERGY to survive . doesn't matter where you get that damn energy from!!!! /thread! :explode:
There are literally dozens of things that your body needs to survive, other than calories. Essential fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins, dietary minerals...all these are essential.
Im pretty sure I wont die if I lived off animal protein and fats and disregard everything else . You cant tell me I will just drop dead one day because I have no carbs in my system .
Ok, meat is good for protein, for Vitamin A & D, iron, and zinc, but I certainly prefer to add veggies and fruits to round out my micronutrients. I can't imagine eating only meat and fats. I would feel like crap, I think.
BUT you wont die , that's my argument .
Well my goal in life is not just "not die." I want to thrive and be happy! Each to their own. *shrugs*0 -
Use
Your body uses carbohydrates as fuel to get you through your day. When you eat a snack or a meal, your body breaks these large pieces of foods into smaller particles and turns them into simple sugars, which are absorbed into your bloodstream. During digestion, your pancreas releases insulin, which helps move the sugar from your blood into cells allowing your body to use the food as energy. This process tends to happen quickly, according to KidsHealth. Depending upon the type of carbohydrate you've consumed, you may become hungry rather quickly or you can stay full and satisfied for a longer period of time
FROM LIVESTRONG>COM
www.JoyBauer.com
Types
There are two types of carbs: simple and complex. Simple carbs are also known as simple sugars and are not so beneficial for you. Complex carbs are known as starches and are beneficial for you---in limited quantities. Without knowing the difference between the types of carbohydrates, it is easy to be confused as to how they give you energy and how often you should eat them.
Simple Carbohydrates
Simple carbs are found in foods such as milk, apples, grapes, peaches and various other fruits. Simple sugars are used to make refined sugars, such as table sugar, which is used to make candy such as lollipops, cookies and other sweets. There is a difference even in simple sugars. Simple sugars that occur naturally in foods such as apples are far better for you than when they are refined into table sugar. Apples, grapes, cherries and milk offer additional nutrients such as fiber, vitamins A, C and E. Refined sugars found in candies and other junk food offer little to no nutritional value.
Complex Carbohydrates
Complex carbs, or better known as starches, include grain products such as pasta, rice and bread. As with simple carbs, complex carbs can also be refined. Healthy complex carbs include whole grains, whole wheat and brown rice. When complex carbs are refined, they are enriched with various nutrients and additives and turned into white flour and white rice. The refining process removes or strips many of the heart-healthy nutrients that your body needs. Some of the fiber content is lost during the refining process, which is why whole grains typically have more fiber than enriched grains.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com
This is a lot of information on why carbs are 'healthful', not why they are 'essential':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_nutrient
Also:
"Although there is certainly no evidence from which to conclude that extreme restriction of dietary carbohydrate is harmless, I was surprised to find that there is similarly little evidence to conclude that extreme restriction of carbohydrate is harmful. In fact, the consequential breakdown of fat as a result of carbohydrate restriction may be beneficial in the treatment of obesity (7). Perhaps it is time to carefully examine the issue of whether carbohydrate is an essential component of human nutrition."
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/75/5/951.2.long0 -
Fruit, veg and nuts are a reliable source of carbohydrates..........so no, you haven't been consuming no carbs.Your body doesn't ''need'' carbs.
I function very well without them, and have been for a while now. I only have carbs once a week, the rest I have fruits, vegetables, meat and nuts. That's about it.
If you feel dizzy in the afternoon maybe you could eat a bit more in the morning. I know I need to eat more in that window, or else I feel a tad weird. So I eat a good breakfast, have my nuts and a good Lunch. I eat a little less in the afternoon and so on.
But that's just me
Yes I do know that except OP was refering to crackers and such. Not fruits and vegetables.
Of course they have carbs, everything does. But if all you have are fruits and vegetables and no other type of carbs (ex grain)
their carb intake will be much lower than someone who consumes them. That is what I meant0 -
MFP formatting has gone crazy... to be reposted shortly...0
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You're basing that on what?your body can not survive without sugar
Let's look at what the Institute of Medicine has to say about it:
"The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed," according to the "Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids," published by the Institute of Medicine in 2005.
the lowest level of something compatible with life is not the same thing as what's necessary for optimal health. I could keep you alive on a drip locked in a basement tied to a chair, in the dark, doing no exercise, no entertainment and eating nothing, just getting the bare minimum of nutrition from a drip* - you would be alive, but you wouldn't be healthy!! People can survive, barely, in the most horrible circumstances. I've read case studies of people being kept locked up in basements for decades. But they won't be close to optimal health.
*I wouldn't because I'm not that kind of person :flowerforyou: I'm just showing you an extreme example of what "the minimum necessary that's compatible with life" really means in biological terms.
So rather than looking to provide yourself with what's the lowest level of something that's compatible with life, instead aim to provide yourself with what's optimal for health. That means carbohydrates, because exercise is necessary for optimal health, and carbohydrate is necessary to get a decent workout in. Yes you can exercise with zero carbs in your system, long distance runners call that "hitting the wall", but you can sure as anything run a lot faster when you have glucose in your blood. So yes, you can *survive* and *stay alive* without ever eating carbs, but really, why the heck would anyone want to??
OP: YES if you are crashing around 2pm from lack of carbs in your system, eat more carbs!!!
I think there's value in determining the things that are essential -- i.e., needed to live. It should be the basis of any healthy diet. Once you define the things that you absolutely need to intake, then you start going into the ways to take those things in, the things you can eat in addition to it, etc. Without the basis in "things that you need to live" to define the borders of the discussion, the actual discussion becomes quite disarrayed.
I'm not saying that this knowledge isn't useful in some contexts (and I find those kinds of studies really interesting), but in the current context, where many people are stuck in black and white thinking (e.g. classifying foods or even food groups as "good" and "bad") and food puritanism (eliminating certain foods because they're "bad" and never touching them, and viewing eating "bad" foods as some kind of moral wrong) - statements like "carbs are not essential nutrients" will be interpreted as "you don't need to eat carbs, therefore eating them is an unnecessary self-indulgence that is only done by lazy, uncommitted people who don't care about their health" ........... instead you need to put the information into context, e.g. "while carbs are not strictly speaking essential from a biological point of view, they are a valuable addition to the diet for optimal health, as they give you enough energy to get through your day and in particular to have enough energy to exercise effectively" which is a lot harder to misinterpret.0 -
You're basing that on what?your body can not survive without sugar
Let's look at what the Institute of Medicine has to say about it:
"The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed," according to the "Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids," published by the Institute of Medicine in 2005.
the lowest level of something compatible with life is not the same thing as what's necessary for optimal health. I could keep you alive on a drip locked in a basement tied to a chair, in the dark, doing no exercise, no entertainment and eating nothing, just getting the bare minimum of nutrition from a drip* - you would be alive, but you wouldn't be healthy!! People can survive, barely, in the most horrible circumstances. I've read case studies of people being kept locked up in basements for decades. But they won't be close to optimal health.
*I wouldn't because I'm not that kind of person :flowerforyou: I'm just showing you an extreme example of what "the minimum necessary that's compatible with life" really means in biological terms.
So rather than looking to provide yourself with what's the lowest level of something that's compatible with life, instead aim to provide yourself with what's optimal for health. That means carbohydrates, because exercise is necessary for optimal health, and carbohydrate is necessary to get a decent workout in. Yes you can exercise with zero carbs in your system, long distance runners call that "hitting the wall", but you can sure as anything run a lot faster when you have glucose in your blood. So yes, you can *survive* and *stay alive* without ever eating carbs, but really, why the heck would anyone want to??
OP: YES if you are crashing around 2pm from lack of carbs in your system, eat more carbs!!!
I think there's value in determining the things that are essential -- i.e., needed to live. It should be the basis of any healthy diet. Once you define the things that you absolutely need to intake, then you start going into the ways to take those things in, the things you can eat in addition to it, etc. Without the basis in "things that you need to live" to define the borders of the discussion, the actual discussion becomes quite disarrayed.
I'm not saying that this knowledge isn't useful in some contexts (and I find those kinds of studies really interesting), but in the current context, where many people are stuck in black and white thinking (e.g. classifying foods or even food groups as "good" and "bad") and food puritanism (eliminating certain foods because they're "bad" and never touching them, and viewing eating "bad" foods as some kind of moral wrong) - statements like "carbs are not essential nutrients" will be interpreted as "you don't need to eat carbs, therefore eating them is an unnecessary self-indulgence that is only done by lazy, uncommitted people who don't care about their health" ........... instead you need to put the information into context, e.g. "while carbs are not strictly speaking essential from a biological point of view, they are a valuable addition to the diet for optimal health, as they give you enough energy to get through your day and in particular to have enough energy to exercise effectively" which is a lot harder to misinterpret.
I agree that context is important, which is why I've spent a significant amount of time elaborating on the nonessential nature of carbohydrates in this thread.
As a completely off topic aside, I think that morality is a part of the obesity fight, though not in the way that most would think. I think we've gotten to a point, marketing wise, where we're really, really good at targeting exactly what triggers humans have towards things -- especially food. This becomes problematic because we have innate biological drives and triggers in order to eat a lot of food when it's abundant, because we'll need it for the lean times -- which might never come for a large portion of society.
Combine that drive with food corporations that spend millions on research into hitting those triggers, and it makes it significantly more difficult to eat healthy food and live a healthy lifestyle. Sure, self-control is a piece, but it's often like sitting a drug addict down in the middle of Heroin 'R Us. Generally speaking -- a recipe for struggles.
If morality comes into play at all, here, it's on the part of our businesses and marketing. The consumer has a lot of odds stacked up against them in that dichotomy.0 -
your body can not survive without sugar
Just out of curiosity, how soon would I die if I ended up on a desert Island with nothing but fish and seaweed to eat? I weigh about 220lb, just me and no other people to cannibalise?
probably quite a long time, because you get protein and healthy fat from the fish, and vitamins and minerals from the seaweed. If you eat a few different kinds of fish and as wide a variety of seaweed as you can, you would probably get most of the nutrients you need. Finding fresh water would present the most immediate survival issue though, as you can't survive drinking seawater. So if you find a fresh water source or figure out how to distill seawater with what you can find on the island, you could probably survive for a long time. If you don't find a source of fresh water, then I'll give you 3 days tops. Less if the climate is particularly harsh, as you'd probably die of heatstroke before you dehydrate.
but seaweed contains carbs
I saw a programme where Bear Grylls had a very special way of ingesting sea water...
Thanks for your reply.0 -
If someone wants to make a point that they believe a lack of carbohydrates can be compensated for by eating a certain way, they should say that, not "carbs are unnecessary." Because carbs are necessary when you are eating to feed a body that is functioning normally.
PS. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on carbs as an essential nutrient. Mainly I think because one of us sees ketosis as an acceptable "normal" way for the body to function and the other does not.
I think you're probably right on the second part (though, as I've beaten a dead horse with above, I obviously disagree with the first). In any case, it's been an enlightening (and hopefully informative) discussion. I appreciate the time you spent on it. Thanks!
I think i'm going to let this one lie for now, but thank you also for a great discussion. It was definitely worth the time to share and learn some new things!0 -
People need at least 100 grams of carbs a day or they will turn into brain-dead retards with bad breath.0
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To OP, after looking at your diary, I think you simply aren't eating enough. Several days you have only had 400 calories until dinner and 70 of those are from sweet coffee creamer which you know isn't a food and has no nutritional value.
I would lose the canned vegetables and cook up some fresh. Have some spinach with your eggs in the morning.
Same with the ready cooked chicken at lunch. Loaded with sodium. Buy a chicken breast and cut it up and cook it yourself.
Try a paleo chili for lunch. I find that really filling. You can find recipes online.0
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