Does an elliptical help a future goal of learning to run?

GOT_Obsessed

Hi. This is a weird question I am sure but meh, oh well. I ask anyway.

In the Spring when there is no ice and snow I think I want to attempt to run a mile outside. I know it does not sound like a long distance but I have never been good at jogging more than a few minutes. I walk outside a lot but it just gets too icy out here for me to feel safe picking up the pace. (I have slipped in the past.)

I have a crappy knee (reconstructed ACL) and do just fine with most things at the gym. I go to bootcamp, body pump, yoga, and use the circuit equipment. Zumba (when lots of jumping), lunges and squats cause a bit of discomfort because I am too heavy. The treadmill (walking, not running) is ok sometimes but if I go too long it gets tender. The elliptical is much easier on the knee.

If I stick to the elliptical till my weight comes down will it help me running at all or will it be like starting from scratch in the Spring? I was thinking of trying the "couch to 5k" on the elliptical.

Is this approach ridiculous or wise? Thanks for your input.

tbird0123

First.. go you. Second, I too walk and use elliptical and if I’m feeling physically strong that day, the elliptical does give me sense of running (and this body hasn’t run in years). I’ve downloaded the MapMyWalk ap and am going to use it to ‘train’ for a walking 5k. But using the couch to 5k ap on the elliptical sounds like an awesome idea.

ashley52601

I think it could help in the sense that your cardio and general fitness will be better but not necessarily directly related to running, at least in my experience.

swimmchick87

I don't think the elliptical would help you with running. I can easily do the elliptical for 30 minutes or more, but I can't run for even one minute without feeling like I'm dying and getting horrible pain in my calves.

litoria

Ok this is going to sound strange, but yes it WILL help you if you use it in reverse mode! Concentrate your weight on the front of your feet, you'll feel all those running muscles engage. It's not complete training, but I certainly found it useful

stanmann571

Yes, I've used the elliptical as a low impact running replacement/preparation, IF you're using a good elliptical(lifefitness pro) it very closely simulates the motion of running and will strengthen the needed muscles.

What it won't do is prepare you for the impact of running.

Given that you've mentioned a reconstructed knee, I would continue with the squats and lunges(ensure correct form)... as long as your PT permits.

For squats. keep your knee over your 2/3 toes and don't let it go left/right or in/out past your small and great toes.

For lunges, ensure you're not stepping forward too far. It should be a "deep step" not a long step. In other words, take a normal step forward, and simply drop your knee. Again. straight lines are important, drifting in/out is bad. Your "down" knee should be within 4-6 inches of your front heel, closer is better. Straight up, straight down.

GOT_Obsessed

Thanks for all the great info! Lots for me to work with.

Today I got brave at the gym. After Zumba and went on the treadmill for a half hour. On 6 occasions I jogged for a minute. It was a pretty slow jog but I did it and I live to tell about it.

I am starting to think I may just try the couch to 5k on a treadmill for the winter. See how it feels on the knee. Then by Spring I may be able to run 1 mile outside. I don't know. So many options.

Another question: When I attempt this outside run there is a big school soccer field close by. Does the surface make a big difference to the joints? Would this be better for me than the sidewalk or back lane maybe?

Motorsheen

GOT_Obsessed wrote: »

Thanks for all the great info! Lots for me to work with.

Today I got brave at the gym. After Zumba and went on the treadmill for a half hour. On 6 occasions I jogged for a minute. It was a pretty slow jog but I did it and I live to tell about it.

I am starting to think I may just try the couch to 5k on a treadmill for the winter. See how it feels on the knee. Then by Spring I may be able to run 1 mile outside. I don't know. So many options.

Another question: When I attempt this outside run there is a big school soccer field close by. Does the surface make a big difference to the joints? Would this be better for me than the sidewalk or back lane maybe?

the running surface will make a huge difference.

I always looked for more of an even running surface (trail running isn't my thing; it's great for others, just not me.)

A dedicated running trail is good, like along a canal. Treadmills are very forgiving.

Asphalt can be rough on the knees but if you're training for a road race (1/2 marathon or longer) you will want to do much of your training on the harder surface.

... just my 2 cents

edit:

also..... what kind of shoes are you wearing for your runs? Are they old or broken down?
Have you been fitted by someone who knows running?

The proper shoes (and socks) are critical to your success.

GOT_Obsessed

My shoes are brand new runners that I have used for 8 weeks in the gym. Not from a custom fit running place though. ASICS something or other.

spiriteagle99

Dirt is softer than asphalt, so easier on the knees, but uneven, so you need to make sure you pick up your feet and watch where you set them down so you don't trip. A good even lawn/soccer field is good to run on. Dirt or sand trails are good to run on if you have joint issues.

GemstoneofHeart

It might help you train but it’s not really like running at all. The stride is completely different. I still think it’s worth doing because any exercise is good, but if you really want to run, you should try a beginners running plan. That’s what I did and I can run 5Ks straight through no problem

sgt1372

OP: Why do you feel the need to "learn" how to run?

I can run but hate running and have lost weight and gotten strong and fit over the past 18 months w/o ever running a step.

Lifted weights, hiked miles, walked the treadmill, climbed the Stairmaster and rode a spin bike a lot. I even used the elliptical a bit BUT I never ran a step.

So, if you can use the elliptical w/o pain even though you have a bad knee and don't have the endurance to jog more than a few mins or can't walk on the treadmill too long, why don't you just stick with the elliptical?

If you want to "learn how to run," fine, but just realize that you DON'T have to run to get fit. Just use the elliptical if it meets your needs and physical limitations best.

rheddmobile

I've got no ACL in my right knee and run wearing a lightweight brace. I recently finished c25k haven't had many problems with running aggravating my knee, as long as I am very careful about foot placement. Most of the advice you are getting about surfaces doesn't apply to your situation - hard surfaces aren't going to hurt your acl, the main thing you don't want to do is catch your toe on a piece of pavement or a root and wrench your knee sideways. I've also learned not to push past my leg muscles getting tired, because my muscles don't respond as fast and I become more likely to injure myself.

The elliptical will help with conditioning but really nothing is like running but running. My recommendation would be to try the c25k on the treadmill and repeat weeks if necessary. And get a brace to protect that tendon!

GOT_Obsessed

Haha. Someone asked about the need to run and to be honest it's because of the Zombies, Run! app. When the weather becones nice out (months from now) it seems like it would be a nice thing to do to start the day. I used the app now walking but it's slippery out. At the chase parts I just keep walking.

Also I was never great at running distances as a youth. I always did well in the short distances but was always winded early even skating. I played lots of softball and ringette but avoided anything with lots more running. I guess it's perhaps a deep rooted sore spot.

I want to say I can run a mile! I think it's an achievable goal. I have given it a lot of thought and tomorrow I plan to start the couch to 5k. I just found out there is an indoor running track here. I am just looking into that. I was curious about the elliptical because during the holidays I will be out of town and they have an elliptical but not a treadmill. Plus it's very wintery out there.

Thanks for all your help.

questionfear

I had ACL surgery 9 years ago. Since the surgery, I've run 4 half marathons, and more 5ks than I can count. Personally, I think the treadmill is the worst possible tool for someone with a bad knee-it forces you to go at a very steady and specific pace and cadence, and it isn't always comfortable. When you're running outside, you can unconsciously make adjustments that help your knee. At least that's my experience.

stingrayinfl

Ellip is a great way to help cross train and get in a good cardio workout. I run ultras, marathons. I use the ellip about 3 times a week, maybe 4 for 60 mins to 90 mins each session and it saves my knees and feet and still gives me a good workout. I can set the tension up and do hills and intervals on it

Jthanmyfitnesspal

My 2 cents:

You should be able to walk a 5k in less than 50 minutes before you start trying to run it.

If you can't yet do that, work on your walking outdoors and/or on the treadmill. Cross training on elliptical (and anything else) is great, but you need to do a good walking about 3 times a week to get any faster. Once you get the speed walking and are comfortable with it, you can jump into C25K, progressing through the workouts as slowly as you feel you need to. Feel free to repeat or even go back between the workouts. If your knee hurts, stop jogging for a while, doing other stuff (elliptical is really good). Since C25K is supposed to be 3 days a week, you can continue to cross train on the other days on elliptical or whatever else you want.

Best of luck!

Spliner1969

You're going to find that you can increase your endurance with the elliptical but running actually involves different muscles which you likely won't be using with the elliptical. Each machine is different, and some are even designed to replicate running, but you'd be closer with a treadmill than an elliptical. It's still good effort though, and it'll help you burn calories all winter and it'll help you build endurance. But when you do go out to start running in the spring, take it slow, run a little, walk a little, build up to a mile, then two, etc. You will find some muscles will be sore from running that weren't sore from the elliptical, those will be the ones not being engaged with the elliptical.

Almost three years ago when I started my weight loss journey I had never run more than a mile, and that was something like 30 years prior when they made us do it in school lol. So basically I had no running experience at all. I started by walking as far as I could as fast as I could. I gradually increased speed week after week, and eventually started running up hills and sections of my walking path until I could run a mile, then two miles, then this year I managed to run a 5k, and by the end of the summer was doing a 5k in under 30 minutes. So just work your way up and you'll be fine. I am also stuck on an elliptical in the winter, so I have to work back up to running each spring.

mitch16

How far out from ACL surgery are you? Do you have full clearance from your surgeon/your PT to resume all activities?

Speaking from my experience--I am 18 months post-ACL reconstruction--start on a "soft" surface first... This can be the treadmill, a grass field, or a outdoor running track. Roads and sidewalks are your last choices. The treadmill, as someone else mentioned, does force you into a somewhat unnatural stride, but it's less noticeable when you are going slower. I find now that I am getting back to my pre-injury speed the treadmill kind of bothers my knee--4 miles is about my limit there. The grass, while it's very nice and soft, does tend to be somewhat uneven, and a misstep into a small hole could cause re-injury. Pay careful attention to the grass in front of you if you choose grass. For these reasons, the running track at the local high school is my favorite surface of the 3, albeit a little boring to run in circles.

GOT_Obsessed

Oh my ACL injury and surgery is years behind me. (1994) But it still gets annoying with certain things. I am pretty sure it's because of my weight.

You people are awesome and very wise! Thanks from the bottom of my heart.

GOT_Obsessed

Well week 1 of my C25K is in the books. Done!

Day 1 nearly killed me. Nothing to do with the knee at all though. I think I just jogged too fast. (which likely was pretty slow but for rookie me too fast) But for day 2 I slowed it right down and did a million times better. Day 3 this morning went pretty well too.

The indoor track was fine for my knee. I was expecting a bit of discomfort but luckily none at all. Have a great week folks.

CSARdiver

I've been a life long runner. I had an unplanned lead injection in my left knee and still struggle with this. Never had a knee replacement, but instead opted for continued physical therapy - lots of leg lifts, presses, etc. When I put on a lot of weight I initially used the elliptical for cardio and to help with the caloric deficit. Once I got the weight down to a more manageable level I moved to running over elliptical. While I get my primary cardio from running now I still spend ~30 mins/week on the elliptical.

The most dramatic impact to me was incorporating compound lifts into my regimen. I opted for the Stronglifts 5x5 app and plan. Squatting heavy has diminished my knee pain more than any other single mitigation effort.

To reduce impact most PTs recommend moving from elliptical > treadmill > indoor track > road > trail.

GOT_Obsessed

So here is an update from me. Last week on holidays I was away and did not want to fall off my wagon. (The initial reason for this thread) I used the elliptical in the house where I was staying and found it horribly boring but I did use it for some cardio. I even did some in reverse as was suggested. Also I went one day to a rec Centre that I found with an indoor track. I tried c25k week 3 day 1 but failed miserably with the 3 minute jogs so I went swimming for a bit there instead. Well ok I floated around in the lazy river, sat in the hot tub, and dove from the diving board a few times. Christmas next week will be challenging away from home again but I have better resources where I am going.

Oh and yesterday I completed week 3, day 3 at our indoor track. As far as knee pain...NONE! I think the track is a good place for me to go. Well except the slippery parking lot there. I slipped and hurt my tailbone the day before my trip. I am trying to learn proper breathing. That is where I need work.

Happy Holidays to you all!