Improving 5K time "just a little bit"
Tacklewasher
Posts: 7,122 Member
Yeah, I know this isn't the right question or goal, but I want to get past the 30 minute mark for a 5K and I'm so close. Last Saturday parkrun was 30:18. Best has been 30:06.
I'm only going to do a couple more park runs his year as I'm going to be hitting X country ski trails instead, but would like to finish the year off with a sub 30 time.
So what would be your tips to just shave a minute off? I get pretty coffee'd out before a run so more caffeine won't help. I eat a light breakfast (oatmeal). But any tips/tricks to just get that little bit extra?
Nothing illegal/immoral/unethical and most of all not something unhealthy.
I'm only going to do a couple more park runs his year as I'm going to be hitting X country ski trails instead, but would like to finish the year off with a sub 30 time.
So what would be your tips to just shave a minute off? I get pretty coffee'd out before a run so more caffeine won't help. I eat a light breakfast (oatmeal). But any tips/tricks to just get that little bit extra?
Nothing illegal/immoral/unethical and most of all not something unhealthy.
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Replies
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More miles overall will help. Running a warmup mile or two before the 5k, including a few strides, will help. Doing a little speedwork on your longer runs after you've warmed up (strides, fartleking or short intervals at 5k pace) will help. Losing weight will help.3
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You're six seconds away. Choose a day with a tail wind.
Training is the long term answer but 6/1800 is within the realm of noise and luck. Pick a good route and a day with the wind at your back, then celebrate and enjoy the ski trails.10 -
If you don't do a solid warm up, that might help. You'll want to build intensity over 10 mins with increased paced walking, then move to a jog for a few mins. Once you've used full range of motion movements (high knees and lunges), you can throw in a few relatively hard, 30 second efforts, followed by 2 mins recovery, to get your acid buffering online. Then, make sure you've got a good 5 mins to calm your system down. Then, set up a negative split scenario, where you hold back a bit initially and push a bit harder on the second 15 mins, building as you reach the finish. Hope this helps and good luck.
If you're not incorporating it, next year, do some speed work as part of your training.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »You're six seconds away. Choose a day with a tail wind.
Training is the long term answer but 6/1800 is within the realm of noise and luck. Pick a good route and a day with the wind at your back, then celebrate and enjoy the ski trails.
We run there and back, downhill and uphill.
I think I need to find someone with a whip to follow me is all.1 -
What's your weekly training volume? Are you doing any speed work? Are you running with a GPS watch that displays your pace?
You're not looking at shaving much time off to his your goal, less than 2 seconds per km (or a little over 3 secs based on your most recent) perhaps having a GPS watch displaying your pace may be all you need to keep it under 6:00 min/km. If you've got a few weeks running a 3-2-1 fartlek once a week may be all it takes too.
You can do this! (If you keep at it 30 mins will become a training run)0 -
BrianSharpe wrote: »What's your weekly training volume? Are you doing any speed work? Are you running with a GPS watch that displays your pace?
You're not looking at shaving much time off to his your goal, less than 2 seconds per km (or a little over 3 secs based on your most recent) perhaps having a GPS watch displaying your pace may be all you need to keep it under 6:00 min/km. If you've got a few weeks running a 3-2-1 fartlek once a week may be all it takes too.
You can do this! (If you keep at it 30 mins will become a training run)
This would be my suggestion. Watch your splits.0 -
I also suggest you do not try to do it every week. Giving an all out effort requires time to recover. Incorporate longer and slower runs into your routine and 'go for it' once or twice a month at most.1
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Are you running at race pace or at a 'comfortably hard' pace? I don't mean for this to sound mean but if the latter, just try harder.
If the former, then the traditional advice of more miles or speedwork applies. Alternatively, keep running the 5Ks and sooner or later you'll get one of those really good running days.0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Yeah, I know this isn't the right question or goal, but I want to get past the 30 minute mark for a 5K and I'm so close. Last Saturday parkrun was 30:18. Best has been 30:06.
You already know that the answer is probably more volume, but in the time available that's not going to make a significant difference.
The think the most practical advice is probably to identify where you're prepared to throw up after you finish, and put in enough effort that you need to. You're only talking about a few seconds.
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If you train at a 4 mile (or more) distance, 3 miles will always seem easy (and fast)!
You're super close and in the short term you can probably push just hard enough to get yourself there. Watch your pace over the first 4k, and then kick it out hard on the last kilometer--leave it all out there...
Alternately, run with someone else who is capable of the sub-30 mark and have them pace you.0 -
Alternately, run with someone else who is capable of the sub-30 mark and have them pace you.
As I said, find someone to whip me
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I think I need to find faster music. I'm running to ~160bpm so I'll see if I can find something on Rock my run in the 170 range and try to keep to it.
Come spring this will be a distant memory and I'll be fighting for 25 mins. I've just got too much weight to carry now.
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Push harder the last 1/4 mile. 6 seconds isn't much! You're so close!1
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Can you incorporate some fartlek work? I identify a landmark like a bench or post, and run more who lot to it, then reduce my speed to normal pace to another landmark, and proceed like that for a bit. I also take smaller bit faster steps, which speeds me up, also.
Habe you entered a race? I find I get faster per mile during a race, even without trying.0 -
The number one quick producer of fitness is intensity. Intensity is built on a solid foundation of miles. Slowly double your miles per week and your times will drop dramatically. Intensity can do the same thing but increases injury risk, that is why slowly increasing the volume is a safer approach. I coach a lot of people and until you are up to 30-40 miles a week I would not bother with speed work. Running does massive impact forces that some bodies while others break.
Since you are skiing, which is low impact feel free to go harder. In fact I would recommend it.
Caffeine is helpful but not much, but legal and helpful...3mg of caffeine per kilogram of body weight is all that is needed.
If you want a superb book google Jack Daniels (seriously...not a bourbon)....Daniel's Running Formula...plans for all race distances and ability levels
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I hear you, I was 30:14 at my race Sunday. Grrrrr. The fastest I’ve ever done was 29, which felt like sprinting to me. Keeping tight in the turns helps — a little. I also find it helpful to have the Map My Run lady holler at me every 1/4 mile.1
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Speed work.
Bother with it.
Have a training plan and stick with it. One that includes speed work of various types one day a week (speed intervals, tempo, or hill repeats).2 -
Start closer to the front, less traffic to dodge. Not too far that your in the way of the sub-20 people, but dodging eats time.
Hit the apex of every turn. Run the least possible distance. If the course was certified, the least possible distance through the apexes is 5000m, any time you deviate from the ideal line you run further than 5km. 6s is just a couple steps wrong in a couple corners.
I set my watch to metric, train in imperial, and set auto laps to every 500m. That's a short enough distance I can check and adjust my pace. 30:00 is only 5:00 per 500m, if you can run 4:59 every half kilometer, you'll destroy your goal.
Or you could do the optimal and negative split, start with a 5:03 and speed up 1s every 500m.1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Alternately, run with someone else who is capable of the sub-30 mark and have them pace you.
As I said, find someone to whip me.
I think I need to find faster music. I'm running to ~160bpm so I'll see if I can find something on Rock my run in the 170 range and try to keep to it.
Come spring this will be a distant memory and I'll be fighting for 25 mins. I've just got too much weight to carry now.
I think I mentioned this to you before, but you really should target at least 170 bpm no matter what speed you're running. 160 at <10 minute miles is definitely too low...there's a pretty good chance that you're overstriding.0 -
scorpio516 wrote: »Start closer to the front, less traffic to dodge. Not too far that your in the way of the sub-20 people, but dodging eats time.
Hit the apex of every turn. Run the least possible distance. If the course was certified, the least possible distance through the apexes is 5000m, any time you deviate from the ideal line you run further than 5km. 6s is just a couple steps wrong in a couple corners.
I set my watch to metric, train in imperial, and set auto laps to every 500m. That's a short enough distance I can check and adjust my pace. 30:00 is only 5:00 per 500m, if you can run 4:59 every half kilometer, you'll destroy your goal.
Or you could do the optimal and negative split, start with a 5:03 and speed up 1s every 500m.
I think your math is a little off, 5:00 for every 500m would result in a 50 minute 5K, to hit 30 minutes or less requires a pace of 6:00/km or faster.1 -
BrianSharpe wrote: »scorpio516 wrote: »Start closer to the front, less traffic to dodge. Not too far that your in the way of the sub-20 people, but dodging eats time.
Hit the apex of every turn. Run the least possible distance. If the course was certified, the least possible distance through the apexes is 5000m, any time you deviate from the ideal line you run further than 5km. 6s is just a couple steps wrong in a couple corners.
I set my watch to metric, train in imperial, and set auto laps to every 500m. That's a short enough distance I can check and adjust my pace. 30:00 is only 5:00 per 500m, if you can run 4:59 every half kilometer, you'll destroy your goal.
Or you could do the optimal and negative split, start with a 5:03 and speed up 1s every 500m.
I think your math is a little off, 5:00 for every 500m would result in a 50 minute 5K, to hit 30 minutes or less requires a pace of 6:00/km or faster.
But a 5:00 Half mile would almost do it.
I know for me, when I'm conditioned for that distance, a 10:00 pace is a relatively easy one to maintain. I like the idea of the negative split myself. Given the distance and pace goal. Shoot for finishing the first half(1.6 miles/2500 m) at 15:00-15:15 and then pick it up on the back end.
I also think MM's suggestion to throw up after is a worthy one.
Balance your pace between hitting your splits, and leaving enough in the tank to make yourself puke that quarter mile-1 km.
It's definitely the difference between a good and a great night's sleep the night before.0 -
You're closer than I am, but I found a running streak helped me bring my 5k time down from 36.05 to 33.43 as well as finally break the 10min mile. When I'm doing a streak I'll do a minimum of a mile a day, and if I'm just doing a mile then I'll go all out and push as hard as I can. Otherwise I'm a plodder and my longer runs are 10-20km so I try not to worry too much about time on those.
I also do a lot of work with a PT, strengthening my legs, dealing with weak links (my hips), hill sprints, lots of lunges, running while carrying a weighted ball or wearing weighted vest.0 -
At this point, training volume and a higher MPW would result in your greatest improvements to time. I made my biggest improvements to my 5k time by training for a half marathon, and then another big improvement by training for marathons/50ks. I cut out speed work and concentrated on adding mileage when I trained for my first marathon and ended up over a minute faster on my 5k time and breaking the sub 20:00 threshold.
A 5k is still HIGHLY dependent on aerobic performance. Only after maximizing that aspect would I ever bother with speed work. I concur with @jlklem, if you aren't already doing 30-40 MPW, speedwork won't pay off as much as more mileage and increases your risk of injury.3 -
1) Run more miles. Up to 30 miles/week, if you can handle it. Increase no more 10% a week to avoid injury.
2) Speedwork. Doesn't have to be per a super formal training program; just get used to pushing yourself and being uncomfortable for some portion of your runs, whether it's doing a fast finish, intervals, whatever.
3) Lose weight. Every pound adds 2 seconds to your mile time.
4) Race on a cool day (40F is ideal), with little wind.
5) Find a course that doesn't have a lot of turns.
6) Pick a race that's "right-sized" -- i.e., not so big you'll be bobbing and weaving through the crowd to speed up, but not so small that there's no one to pace yourself against.
7) Find a friend to pace you for the race.
8) If you don't already, get a Garmin or other watch so that you can track your pace. 5ks are notoriously hard to pace for, since you're running so close to your maximum speed.
9) Get enough sleep the night before.
10) Do some type of "taper" if you've been training vigorously; no hard/vigorous/overly long (it's all relative to the overall intensity of your training) workouts 5 days before the race.2 -
Absolutely no reason to do any more than 20 MPW on a 5K program.2
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stanmann571 wrote: »Absolutely no reason to do any more than 20 MPW on a 5K program.
Agreed. 30-40 MPW is overkill for a casual 5K runner--that's the mileage I was doing for half marathons (which I run at an 8 minute mile pace). Obviously the more you run distance the easier the shorter distances will be, but you certainly don't need to run that distance weekly to shave 10 seconds per mile off.
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stanmann571 wrote: »Absolutely no reason to do any more than 20 MPW on a 5K program.
Agreed. 30-40 MPW is overkill for a casual 5K runner--that's the mileage I was doing for half marathons (which I run at an 8 minute mile pace). Obviously the more you run distance the easier the shorter distances will be, but you certainly don't need to run that distance weekly to shave 10 seconds per mile off.
And there's no reason you can't get into the 21-24 minute range with 25 MPW1 -
BrianSharpe wrote: »scorpio516 wrote: »Start closer to the front, less traffic to dodge. Not too far that your in the way of the sub-20 people, but dodging eats time.
Hit the apex of every turn. Run the least possible distance. If the course was certified, the least possible distance through the apexes is 5000m, any time you deviate from the ideal line you run further than 5km. 6s is just a couple steps wrong in a couple corners.
I set my watch to metric, train in imperial, and set auto laps to every 500m. That's a short enough distance I can check and adjust my pace. 30:00 is only 5:00 per 500m, if you can run 4:59 every half kilometer, you'll destroy your goal.
Or you could do the optimal and negative split, start with a 5:03 and speed up 1s every 500m.
I think your math is a little off, 5:00 for every 500m would result in a 50 minute 5K, to hit 30 minutes or less requires a pace of 6:00/km or faster.
Lol. That's what I get for typing on the train at6 am.
3:00 per 500m is the right number0 -
Well. Success. 29:43. Less clothing (it was 7C, so not too bad), start near the front, poop before and it all came together.
Possibly the last Park Run of the year for me, so I hit my target.21 -
Congrats
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Terrific.0
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