Am I adding muscle or not in a deficit?

donjtomasco

I have yet to be able to understand this so I am throwing it out for you people who know the answer to tell me. I will tell you what I am doing.

I was at 203 on Oct 30th, this morning am at 196. I set MFP calories to lose 1# per week but if I can lose between .01 to a pound (anywhere in between) is fine. Long and slow this time. My goal is 185. I am 55 years young.

I walk 2-4 miles a day and have a pretty solid 90 minute weight workout every other day. I am doing 3 sets of 8-12 reps. Nothing fancy, just want to stay strong and if I can build that would be nice.

AM I ADDING MUSCLE OR LOSING MUSCLE ?????????????????

I am getting stronger (i.e., adding more weight to what I am lifting). I am seeing muscle appear in the mirror fractionally. Am I simply seeing what 'was' there but has less fat on it? Or am I getting stronger and toner and adding some muscle?

As I am losing weight am I shifting some of the weight to muscle, hence, not losing as much on the scale but moving a little bit of fat into muscle? Or is that just not true?

Or, will I not actually be able to ADD muscle till I am no longer eating at a deficit?

For some reason I just can't understand this. But this time I am just doing my walking, doing my lifting, watching the weight come of slowing, eating pretty darn healthy (for me), not sweating it when I go over, just keeping the carrot in front of me that on a weekly basis if I can lose a little bit of weight while walking and lifting, then I am doing pretty darn good.

Whatever the hell I am doing, I feel a lot better this go round by setting my goal at losing less per week and I am feeling stronger (more energy) and so far I continue to see the downward trend on the scale.

Today will be the challenge to not blow the calories too badly!

I think my info is open for anyone to look at if you want to see my stuff. I am open and all ears and open to criticism and suggestions. Thank you!

sardelsa

Can I ask.. does it really matter? You are making progress, getting stronger, looking better. Most of what you are seeing is likely current muscle showing through. If you are gaining a bit of muscle (which is possible in a deficit in some cases), awesome, but even if you aren't don't let that discourage you from what you are doing.

Lifting, getting adequate protein and keeping your deficit reasonable.. you are doing everything you can to maintain muscle as you lose, and if you aren't happy with your body composition when you get closer to goal then at that point you can work on building more significant muscle.

donjtomasco

No, it does not really matter, but I still like knowing the facts and information. My jeans are fitting better and I look and feel better, so that's what counts. And my blood pressure is perfect. I do intensely enjoy the process and journey so knowing how it all works and how my body might be actually working is part of the fun for me that goes along with the hard work and resist to temptation to dive into that chicken friend steak, fries, and a pecan pie desert with some BlueBell Homemade Vanilla Ice Cream on top.

Lean59man

Keep it up. You're doing great!

Logic tells me you are not gaining muscle mass while losing weight.

The muscle you have is getting stronger and fitter however, and you are losing fat.

Quite an improvement. Congrats.

thunderztormdk

Generally speaking, if you are in a calorie deficit, you cannot build muscle.

However, if you are a complete beginner to strength training, you can see, in the early few months, that you can actually gain muscle while in a deficit. That's a temporary thing though.

The reason why you weight train while in a deficit is to minimize muscle loss and maximize fat loss. That obviously requires focus on diet as well (make sure you get enough protein).

sardelsa

This article is a great read if you are interested in the science

https://shreddedbyscience.com/can-you-gain-weight-in-a-calorie-deficit/

SezxyStef

Yes it does matter actually it's good to know these things.

Based on studies I have read and talking to professionals here is my understanding.

Muscle can be added at a deficit if the following is true:

You are doing a progressive load lifting program (adding weight consistently) and new to lifting
You are obese and doing a progressive load lifting program
You are young and full of testosterone...

Keep in mind these gains are short lived and typically measured in oz not pounds.

So to answer your question...no you are probably not gaining muscle...and yes you are losing muscle but because you are getting in some resistance training and hopefully enough protein you are losing minimal amounts.

Adding muscle takes either a bulk cycle where you are eating over maintenance and lifting but doing this you are also adding some fat...then you have to "cut" to reveal the muscle.

or

Recomp where you are eating at maintenance and lifting...you are adding some muscle and losing some fat over a longer period of time.

I prefer the recomp method and know that I am getting smaller...but weigh the same...but this has been over a couple of years too...

donjtomasco

Thank you for your comments! I am not new to lifting, but have been on and off since my youth. 55 years allows for lots of on's and off's, but I got both kids out of the house, both are living the dream in their own works of passion, and it appears 'possibly' that I will have a run time here where I have a chance for a longer 'on' this go round. I am one of those people that I am all in or not in at all. I put together a plan and follow it. If I can't follow it, it's hard to do 'just a little' or 'just anything'. So, if I am not building muscle, that's cool, I am burning fat and getting fitter, and that's cool. If I can get to 185 and maintain, that will be a great goal to set to then be adding muscle when that day comes.

Thanks again for your comments that were very helpful!

pogiguy05

I am no pro, but I would say from common sense that if you are able to lift more weight on your reps, then you have to be adding muscle. I dont see any way that you could add weight just cause your losing fat.

I am 51 years young myself and started doing strength training on my own in the gym. Nothing fancy just doing about 60 minutes of 8-12 reps/ 3 sets. Although slight I can and feel a difference in my muscles for which i actually like.

SezxyStef

pogiguy05 wrote: »

I am no pro, but I would say from common sense that if you are able to lift more weight on your reps, then you have to be adding muscle. I dont see any way that you could add weight just cause your losing fat.

I am 51 years young myself and started doing strength training on my own in the gym. Nothing fancy just doing about 60 minutes of 8-12 reps/ 3 sets. Although slight I can and feel a difference in my muscles for which i actually like.

Don't confuse adding strength with adding Muscle.

pogiguy05

SezxyStef wrote: »

pogiguy05 wrote: »

I am no pro, but I would say from common sense that if you are able to lift more weight on your reps, then you have to be adding muscle. I dont see any way that you could add weight just cause your losing fat.

I am 51 years young myself and started doing strength training on my own in the gym. Nothing fancy just doing about 60 minutes of 8-12 reps/ 3 sets. Although slight I can and feel a difference in my muscles for which i actually like.

Don't confuse adding strength with adding Muscle.

Enlighten me with adding strength without adding muscle? Like I said I am no pro and just using common sense.

SezxyStef

pogiguy05 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

pogiguy05 wrote: »

I am no pro, but I would say from common sense that if you are able to lift more weight on your reps, then you have to be adding muscle. I dont see any way that you could add weight just cause your losing fat.

I am 51 years young myself and started doing strength training on my own in the gym. Nothing fancy just doing about 60 minutes of 8-12 reps/ 3 sets. Although slight I can and feel a difference in my muscles for which i actually like.

Don't confuse adding strength with adding Muscle.

Enlighten me with adding strength without adding muscle? Like I said I am no pro and just using common sense.

Adding muscle means the muscle is growing...where you are adding in extra calories to build extra muscle...to build muscle (unless one of the three things mentioned above) you need to not be in a deficit...you need the calories/food to build them.

Strength training doesn't require the muscle to grow. Not sure I am the best one to explain the science behind it but based on my understanding your muscle is adapting to the weight being lifted and contracting which builds the strength...

And remember just because you are adding muscle doesn't mean you are getting stronger either...I know lots of people who are quite muscled but aren't as strong as say a guy who works in the woods and has no particular muscles to flex or show.

jgnatca

This feels like a good place to throw in a geeky link.

http://www.ptprogress.com/muscle-contraction-steps-review/

AnnPT77

As I understand it, there are 2 main ways to get stronger (be able to lift more):

1. Neuromuscular adaptation (NA) which involves better recruitment and more efficient, effective utilization of existing muscle cells/fibers.

2. Adding more/new muscle mass.

#1 is easier, faster, and much more likely to occur while eating in a deficit, compared to #2. NA will make you look and feel stronger. The "look stronger" part will be enhanced if you're simultaneously losing fat that hides existing muscle.

#2 is slow under the most ideal of conditions, which involve a calorie surplus, plenty of protein, a challenging and progressive strength exercise stimulus, relative youth, and a favorable hormone profile. I have read that under those ideal conditions, 2 pounds of added muscle per month would be excellent progress for a man, or more like 1 pound for a woman. OP, you are not under those ideal conditions.

In a calorie deficit, muscle loss is common, but the risk can be reduced via progressive strength training, eating enough protein, and a slow loss rate. OP, you do seem to be under those conditions: Kudos!

(For a goal weight of 185, protein around 150-185g would be reasonable, IMO. You seem generally to be hitting that. I'm also a believer in 5-10 servings of veggies/fruit daily. You seem a little short there some days, but that's more a general health issue than about strength or weight loss per se.)

By the way, we don't literally "shift fat to muscle". There's no biological process for that direct transformation. We burn, maintain or store fat; we burn, maintain or grow muscle. They're separate processes. Theoretically, we could use some of the calories from burning stored fat to fuel the muscle building process (we'd still need new protein input as raw material for the process). That's as close as it gets, and it's not usually what happens, in a days/weeks net results sense, except for "newbie gains".

OP, it sounds like you're on an excellent course, losing fat and doing things to at minimum maintain existing muscle tissue to the extent feasible, while building strength. Thrive on!

CarvedTones

It also depends on whether you are in deficit every day. I have seen articles about gaining muscle while losing weight and what they actually do is something like 4 days at N calories below maintenance then 3 days above maintenance by N or less calories doing strength training hard and heavy. So for the week it's below and there should be some weight lost yet there is a gain in muscle.

ninerbuff

Think logically. Adding muscle means adding mass. Adding mass will mean your weight will go UP not down. Now for OBESE people, there's some leeway, but even then it's minor.
You can get stronger without adding weight. Powerlifters do it because they usually compete in weight classes. You can look more muscular without gaining size.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

CarvedTones wrote: »

It also depends on whether you are in deficit every day. I have seen articles about gaining muscle while losing weight and what they actually do is something like 4 days at N calories below maintenance then 3 days above maintenance by N or less calories doing strength training hard and heavy. So for the week it's below and there should be some weight lost yet there is a gain in muscle.

Uh, no. It's doesn't work that way.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

pogiguy05 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

pogiguy05 wrote: »

I am no pro, but I would say from common sense that if you are able to lift more weight on your reps, then you have to be adding muscle. I dont see any way that you could add weight just cause your losing fat.

I am 51 years young myself and started doing strength training on my own in the gym. Nothing fancy just doing about 60 minutes of 8-12 reps/ 3 sets. Although slight I can and feel a difference in my muscles for which i actually like.

Don't confuse adding strength with adding Muscle.

Enlighten me with adding strength without adding muscle? Like I said I am no pro and just using common sense.

Called neuromuscular adaptivity. Overloading the muscle with resistance even without a calorie surplus can build strength to an extent.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

StevLL

I am in the 55 club, but coming from Obese to healthy and as a former powerlifter still had a good base to trim from years of on and off lifting. My main focus at first was getting lean at the expense of muscle because my health was more important, I just switched up from basic sets and reps for strength and endurance to progressive overloading and switching between heavy movements and isolation every other body part day to make sure I stay balanced and keep everything safe while progressing. (joints and muscles take a bit more recoup time at our age.)

Age/hormones and such are not as complicated as they seem at first and it is possible at our age to gain considerable muscle, but it takes more time and a bit more attention to the details (science and macros). As someone pointed out above we are going to get it, but in oz at first not lbs, like when we were young. Although we can increase hormone levels, through our progressive routines and how/what/when we eat our fueling foods and rebuilding foods.

A few places I have found helpful, are Mike Mathews and Legion Athletics. Great articles in between the sales of supplements and unless you are in a huge protein deficit, most sups are not as effective as a good clean well balanced real food diet. I'm WFPB, but any healthy well balanced "Real" food diet will be better than the S.A.D. diet.

Abs over 40 is another decent YouTube channel as he really focuses on the form and the safe way for us older iron heads to get it right. They also have links with Seniority another channel.

Working the muscle will tighten and add strength, but we have to overload it, generally to failure to cause the muscle to tear and then have to rebuild and hence grow, but again even at our age, totally possible.

I had been averaging a 2- 4lbs loss each week before I started to shift from just weight loss to loss + maintain and increase muscle mass. I am averaging about a .5-1lb a week loss now while staying at the same calories as before, but switching up my macros and bumping my protein from .5gm/lb to 1gm/lb based on my ideal weight. In 3 weeks I can tell you my strength shot back up and my body seems to be changing it's composition faster than before.

Good luck and we are just getting into our prime. Heres to studly old/younger feeling guys.