Keto diet: How best to get the right ratio of fats to carbs+proteins?
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WarDog5
Posts: 4 Member
Okay, keto newb here. Using MFP, I've realized that I can monitor, throughout the day, where I stand on my fat to carbs+protein ratio. So, in the evening, if I realize that my ratio isn't as good as I'd like, I can easily add a food item that will better the ratio. (I'm aiming for a 2:1 ratio)
My question is this: Would it be better to spread out these evening fat grams during the day or can I safely consume fats later in the evening and still expect to stay in ketosis?
Thanks, in advance, for your time!
My question is this: Would it be better to spread out these evening fat grams during the day or can I safely consume fats later in the evening and still expect to stay in ketosis?
Thanks, in advance, for your time!
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Replies
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Fat intake will not cause you to leave ketosis. In fact some fats, like MCTs/coconut/palm oil will raise your ketone levels. That being said, if you are not hungry do not push the fats. Fat is still calories. If not hungry, don't eat and let your body use your body fat for fuel instead. KWIM?
Carbs are the main thing that will determine if you are in ketosis. Very active people may be able to eat over 50 g of carbs a day and stay in ketosis whereas someone with insulin resistance may need to keep carbs under 20g.
Protein can effect ketosis somewhat, but only at very high levels - often over 200g of protein a day.
Set your protein to the grams it should be for your goal, or short term goal weight. For example, say you chose 100g (reasonable for a woman like me). When eating at a caloric deficit, that 100g (or 400 kcal) may be 25% or your calories (if at 1600kcal). If maintenance is 2000kcal, then that 100g becomes about 20% of your macros.
The same happens with carbs. Set an upper limit and stay under it.
Fat just fills in the rest, according to hunger.
Good luck.0 -
Thanks, mom. And, yes, IKWYM and it makes sense. I guess I was just getting hung up on ratios. I appreciate the clarification.
Happy Holidays and have a Merry Christmas!0 -
I was much more into macros and ratios when I started too. I like research health issues and found it interesting. As I went along I relaxed it a bit once I found what worked well for me.
Try the low carber daily MFP group for more ideas and info. Lots of keto and low carb veterans in there.
Happy holidays to you too.
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Fat intake will not cause you to leave ketosis. In fact some fats, like MCTs/coconut/palm oil will raise your ketone levels. That being said, if you are not hungry do not push the fats. Fat is still calories. If not hungry, don't eat and let your body use your body fat for fuel instead. KWIM?
Carbs are the main thing that will determine if you are in ketosis. Very active people may be able to eat over 50 g of carbs a day and stay in ketosis whereas someone with insulin resistance may need to keep carbs under 20g.
Protein can effect ketosis somewhat, but only at very high levels - often over 200g of protein a day.
Set your protein to the grams it should be for your goal, or short term goal weight. For example, say you chose 100g (reasonable for a woman like me). When eating at a caloric deficit, that 100g (or 400 kcal) may be 25% or your calories (if at 1600kcal). If maintenance is 2000kcal, then that 100g becomes about 20% of your macros.
The same happens with carbs. Set an upper limit and stay under it.
Fat just fills in the rest, according to hunger.
Good luck.
The bold still hasn't been shown to be a thing.
OP, on the protein content; generally a good goal to aim for is .6 to 1g per lb of weight (~1.5-2.2g/kg) to be able to sustain muscle mass. Also, progressive overload resistance training would support that.
And there really is no benefit, outside of personal satiety, to spread nutrients; the only theoretical one is timing some carbs + protein around workouts if you goal would be to gain some muscle or support training the most.0 -
Fat intake will not cause you to leave ketosis. In fact some fats, like MCTs/coconut/palm oil will raise your ketone levels. That being said, if you are not hungry do not push the fats. Fat is still calories. If not hungry, don't eat and let your body use your body fat for fuel instead. KWIM?
Carbs are the main thing that will determine if you are in ketosis. Very active people may be able to eat over 50 g of carbs a day and stay in ketosis whereas someone with insulin resistance may need to keep carbs under 20g.
Protein can effect ketosis somewhat, but only at very high levels - often over 200g of protein a day.
Set your protein to the grams it should be for your goal, or short term goal weight. For example, say you chose 100g (reasonable for a woman like me). When eating at a caloric deficit, that 100g (or 400 kcal) may be 25% or your calories (if at 1600kcal). If maintenance is 2000kcal, then that 100g becomes about 20% of your macros.
The same happens with carbs. Set an upper limit and stay under it.
Fat just fills in the rest, according to hunger.
Good luck.
The bold still hasn't been shown to be a thing.
OP, on the protein content; generally a good goal to aim for is .6 to 1g per lb of weight (~1.5-2.2g/kg) to be able to sustain muscle mass. Also, progressive overload resistance training would support that.
And there really is no benefit, outside of personal satiety, to spread nutrients; the only theoretical one is timing some carbs + protein around workouts if you goal would be to gain some muscle or support training the most.
Ketosis is suppressed by high insulin levels which can be elevated in a very high protein diet. It is the reason that medically required ketogenic diets, like for epilepsy, is lower protein. Lower protein = higher ketones.0 -
Fat intake will not cause you to leave ketosis. In fact some fats, like MCTs/coconut/palm oil will raise your ketone levels. That being said, if you are not hungry do not push the fats. Fat is still calories. If not hungry, don't eat and let your body use your body fat for fuel instead. KWIM?
Carbs are the main thing that will determine if you are in ketosis. Very active people may be able to eat over 50 g of carbs a day and stay in ketosis whereas someone with insulin resistance may need to keep carbs under 20g.
Protein can effect ketosis somewhat, but only at very high levels - often over 200g of protein a day.
Set your protein to the grams it should be for your goal, or short term goal weight. For example, say you chose 100g (reasonable for a woman like me). When eating at a caloric deficit, that 100g (or 400 kcal) may be 25% or your calories (if at 1600kcal). If maintenance is 2000kcal, then that 100g becomes about 20% of your macros.
The same happens with carbs. Set an upper limit and stay under it.
Fat just fills in the rest, according to hunger.
Good luck.
The bold still hasn't been shown to be a thing.
OP, on the protein content; generally a good goal to aim for is .6 to 1g per lb of weight (~1.5-2.2g/kg) to be able to sustain muscle mass. Also, progressive overload resistance training would support that.
And there really is no benefit, outside of personal satiety, to spread nutrients; the only theoretical one is timing some carbs + protein around workouts if you goal would be to gain some muscle or support training the most.
Ketosis is suppressed by high insulin levels which can be elevated in a very high protein diet. It is the reason that medically required ketogenic diets, like for epilepsy, is lower protein. Lower protein = higher ketones.
If there is a requirement for a traditional keto diet (~90% fats) that would be a good argument but most are following a modified keto diet. If they want to maintain muscle and get leaner, higher protein levels are better.
And listening to Dr. Agistino, the lead researcher on ketogenic diets and cancer, he even noted there wasnt evidence that protein will push you our of ketosis.0 -
@nvmomketo - below is a good article that discussions protein during ketogenic. It was posted by alabasterverve and was pretty good. It is mainly about glucenogenesis, but covers other things.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html0 -
My strategy for maintaining my Keto WOE is this.....
I for the most part eat protein first as much as I can, I stay under 20 grams of healthy carbs.
Nine years ago I had a gastric bypass. That got me from 320 pounds to 130 pounds in about 4 years. This was pretty much how I ate (not knowing it was possibly Keto) at the time. So I still experience restriction of how much I can eat at a sitting.
I regained 90 pounds over the last five years because I ate sugar and junk carbs. So I started in July with a decision I would begin eating clean. No added sugars, no processed carbs, no breads etc. Now they call this a LCHF or a Keto WOE.
This does make it hard to get enough calories on a daily basis because carbs digest faster and of course I was able to eat way more of them though they did not make me feel that great in between eating them. And I gained weight rather quickly.
I don't concern myself with getting enough fat because right now I am burning my body fat either while IF or abstaining from carbs. So my point is just eat protein first and limit your carbs to what ever your carb limit is or less each day and the fat will take care of itself.1 -
Try using this calculator to find the exact ratios for yourself: https://keto-calculator.ankerl.com0
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@nvmomketo - below is a good article that discussions protein during ketogenic. It was posted by alabasterverve and was pretty good. It is mainly about glucenogenesis, but covers other things.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
That is a good article. I saw it a while back too. It completely debunks the myth that protein "turns into" sugar/glucose. Not an uncommon misunderstanding among those starting a very LCHF diet.
My point about protein was just that very high protein will inhibit ketone production somewhat through increased insulin. Not a big deal at all for the vast majority of people following a nutritional ketogenic diet - just for those few who need a traditional ketogenic diet for medical reasons. I do not recommend low protein, or even lowish protein, for someone simply using ketosis as a weight loss tool.
There are ways of keeping high protein and high ketones though. Exercise will help somewhat over the long run. Exogenous ketones could be a solution too, especially for people not willing to change their diets like an Alzheimer's patient or those who want high protein along with high ketones. Exogenous ketones can also help those with IR raise their ketone levels without having to resort to quite low carbs (<20g) if they would rather include more veggies in their life.0 -
@nvmomketo - below is a good article that discussions protein during ketogenic. It was posted by alabasterverve and was pretty good. It is mainly about glucenogenesis, but covers other things.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
That is a good article. I saw it a while back too. It completely debunks the myth that protein "turns into" sugar/glucose. Not an uncommon misunderstanding among those starting a very LCHF diet.
My point about protein was just that very high protein will inhibit ketone production somewhat through increased insulin. Not a big deal at all for the vast majority of people following a nutritional ketogenic diet - just for those few who need a traditional ketogenic diet for medical reasons. I do not recommend low protein, or even lowish protein, for someone simply using ketosis as a weight loss tool.
There are ways of keeping high protein and high ketones though. Exercise will help somewhat over the long run. Exogenous ketones could be a solution too, especially for people not willing to change their diets like an Alzheimer's patient or those who want high protein along with high ketones. Exogenous ketones can also help those with IR raise their ketone levels without having to resort to quite low carbs (<20g) if they would rather include more veggies in their life.
It would be interesting to see the impacts on ketone production due to protein. Since its an acute increase to insulin, i cant imagine it having a big impact.
And i am not even sure about exogenous ketones, especially considering 98% of all supplements are useless.0 -
@nvmomketo - below is a good article that discussions protein during ketogenic. It was posted by alabasterverve and was pretty good. It is mainly about glucenogenesis, but covers other things.
http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
That is a good article. I saw it a while back too. It completely debunks the myth that protein "turns into" sugar/glucose. Not an uncommon misunderstanding among those starting a very LCHF diet.
My point about protein was just that very high protein will inhibit ketone production somewhat through increased insulin. Not a big deal at all for the vast majority of people following a nutritional ketogenic diet - just for those few who need a traditional ketogenic diet for medical reasons. I do not recommend low protein, or even lowish protein, for someone simply using ketosis as a weight loss tool.
There are ways of keeping high protein and high ketones though. Exercise will help somewhat over the long run. Exogenous ketones could be a solution too, especially for people not willing to change their diets like an Alzheimer's patient or those who want high protein along with high ketones. Exogenous ketones can also help those with IR raise their ketone levels without having to resort to quite low carbs (<20g) if they would rather include more veggies in their life.
It would be interesting to see the impacts on ketone production due to protein. Since its an acute increase to insulin, i cant imagine it having a big impact.
And i am not even sure about exogenous ketones, especially considering 98% of all supplements are useless.
Ketones do dip when insulin is high. Some just associate it with carb consumption but insulin is a factor.
An extreme, and horrible, example would be diabetic ketoacidosis. Blood glucose is very high because no insulin, or far from enough insulin, was used. At the same time ketones are sky high.
Exogenous ketones will raise ketone levels. This is not useless products like raspberry ketones, but actual exogenous ketones - like taking a protein powder is concentrated exogenous proteins. Alzheimer's researchers are looking into it as a helpful, supplemental therapy for dementia patients since most develop quite a sweet tooth and compliance with a ketogenic diet would be difficult to achieve.
D'Agostino was looking into exogenous ketones for Navy SEAL divers to avoid possible seizures without advance dietary ketogenic compliance. Exogenous ketones appears to help.0
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