Carbs and Exogenous Ketones
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Marcie9278
Posts: 64 Member
Alright, so I'm on the Pruvit Keto Max train... at least for right now.
I have concluded that I need to eat carbs. If you read my other thread in this forum, not eating enough carbs making me crazy.
So, despite my research, I can't find something that explains exactly how exogenous ketones work when you eat carbs. I want to know what happens to the body when you eat carbs and the ketones come into play. I want to know if you still get the benefits of ketones when you're still eating carbs, etc. Everything I read says that you do, but eh....I want something more solid in what happens with the carbs that you ingested if the ketones make your body use fat for energy? Also, do you still get the anti-inflammatory, cancer fighting, and cognitive benefits if you are still eating carbs?
So, I know this is controversial. People will respond and say it's all a bunch of malarky and that I'm dumb to have wasted my money, and blah blah blah blah. But as part of my journey, I want to try all things to see what works and what doesn't work. I'm testing ME. Hehe...so you can say "Get off the train." or "It's doing absolutely nothing..." but I'll just ignore it.
Looking for people who really know and can point me in the direction of answers.
Gracias peops.
I have concluded that I need to eat carbs. If you read my other thread in this forum, not eating enough carbs making me crazy.
So, despite my research, I can't find something that explains exactly how exogenous ketones work when you eat carbs. I want to know what happens to the body when you eat carbs and the ketones come into play. I want to know if you still get the benefits of ketones when you're still eating carbs, etc. Everything I read says that you do, but eh....I want something more solid in what happens with the carbs that you ingested if the ketones make your body use fat for energy? Also, do you still get the anti-inflammatory, cancer fighting, and cognitive benefits if you are still eating carbs?
So, I know this is controversial. People will respond and say it's all a bunch of malarky and that I'm dumb to have wasted my money, and blah blah blah blah. But as part of my journey, I want to try all things to see what works and what doesn't work. I'm testing ME. Hehe...so you can say "Get off the train." or "It's doing absolutely nothing..." but I'll just ignore it.
Looking for people who really know and can point me in the direction of answers.
Gracias peops. 5
Replies
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I don't have any answers for you...sorry about that. I am testing me as well...I've been trying to limit carbs but still eat them (I try to get most of them from veggies and fruits...occasionally from liquid grapes
). Regardless, I did buy Ketone testing stripes (you pee on them) to try to see how much Ketones I was releasing....I have been doing this for about 4 weeks....
What I've noticed so far is when I am high in ketone levels I am losing weight. When I am not, I do not lose. I read that some people can have as many as 50 g carbs per day...others need to keep it under 20....I hover around 30 and feel like I can eat like this without feeling deprived or super cranky so I am going to stick with it!
Good luck!3 -
I predict the keto fad will have all but fizzled out in 2018. And something like the morning banana diet will be in vogue. So just accept the fact that you need to eat carbs, and go for it!
Yeah....I am definitely not going to cut carbs anymore. I can't handle it. My body goes haywire. I just want the benefits of keto. LOL1 -
Noel.. I hope your psychic powers are accurate..
Not that what replaces it will probably be any better lol2 -
Marcie9278 wrote: »Alright, so I'm on the Pruvit Keto Max train... at least for right now.
I have concluded that I need to eat carbs. If you read my other thread in this forum, not eating enough carbs making me crazy.
So, despite my research, I can't find something that explains exactly how exogenous ketones work when you eat carbs. I want to know what happens to the body when you eat carbs and the ketones come into play. I want to know if you still get the benefits of ketones when you're still eating carbs, etc. Everything I read says that you do, but eh....I want something more solid in what happens with the carbs that you ingested if the ketones make your body use fat for energy? Also, do you still get the anti-inflammatory, cancer fighting, and cognitive benefits if you are still eating carbs?
So, I know this is controversial. People will respond and say it's all a bunch of malarky and that I'm dumb to have wasted my money, and blah blah blah blah. But as part of my journey, I want to try all things to see what works and what doesn't work. I'm testing ME. Hehe...so you can say "Get off the train." or "It's doing absolutely nothing..." but I'll just ignore it.
Looking for people who really know and can point me in the direction of answers. Gracias peops.
You forgot world peace and getting to choose the winning lottery numbers.6 -
I would be curious what your perceived benefit is of exogenous ketone supplementation please.3
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Google says:
ex·og·e·nous
ˌekˈsäjənəs/Submit
adjective
relating to or developing from external factors.
BIOLOGY
growing or originating from outside an organism.
"an exogenous hormone"
PSYCHIATRY
(of a disease, symptom, etc.) caused by an agent or organism outside the body.
So I ask, What is your idea of an exogenous ketone?
I ask because ketone bodies are created by metabolic processes in your own body in the absence of glycogen.
Glycogen is sugar stored in your various tissues when you've digested more carbs than your body needs to burn right away. Ketone bodies are derived from fat, and are an emergency fuel for your brain. Your brain prefers to operate on glycogen, but can operate on ketones. It will only switch to ketones when your glycogen is depleted.
The way these work is that when you have glycogen from eating carbs, you don't have ketones, and when you have ketones, you don't have glycogen. They don't mix. They do take turns.2 -
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Exogenous ketones will not help with weight loss. It is an additional fuel that may be used be by the brain. The brain appears to run better on ketones but it will grow glucose dependent if that is what it is getting all of the time.
Dom D'Agostino has some interesting research into exogenous ketones and brain health. A few years back he looked into exogenous ketone use for navy seals to help avoid seizures when ascending without needing to be low carb all the time. It worked. The brain will use exogenous ketones even in the presence of a fair bit of glucose. It also appears to help with brain injury healing (stroke and concussions).
Mary Newport has some interesting information on the use of exogenous ketones for treatment in Alzheimer's patients that looks very promising.
Ketones appear to be quite good for the brain. I'm not sure about world peace and winning lotto numbers though.
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It shows promise with rats. I don't think the US Navy has sent some of their finest to the depths of the ocean at this time with a prayer and exogenous ketones.0
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It shows promise with rats. I don't think the US Navy has sent some of their finest to the depths of the ocean at this time with a prayer and exogenous ketones.
I'll amend that to "it appears to work". He's published on rats but I think I have seen that he was moving into human preclinical trials. The seals aren't being sent down with a prayer and exogenous ketones yet. I wonder how many are trying it (exogenous ketones or a ketogenic diet) once they find out about it.
A discussion with D'Agostino on his reasearch:
https://www.ihmc.us/stemtalk/episode-14/
Interesting stuff.0 -
Exogenous ketones will not help with weight loss. It is an additional fuel that may be used be by the brain. The brain appears to run better on ketones but it will grow glucose dependent if that is what it is getting all of the time.
Dom D'Agostino has some interesting research into exogenous ketones and brain health. A few years back he looked into exogenous ketone use for navy seals to help avoid seizures when ascending without needing to be low carb all the time. It worked. The brain will use exogenous ketones even in the presence of a fair bit of glucose. It also appears to help with brain injury healing (stroke and concussions).
Mary Newport has some interesting information on the use of exogenous ketones for treatment in Alzheimer's patients that looks very promising.
Ketones appear to be quite good for the brain. I'm not sure about world peace and winning lotto numbers though.
Then humans would have evolved to use ketones as the brains primary fuel if it was "run better". Yet, it didn't. Ketones are "backup" fuel for a reason, they are inferior. Get over it, in the battle of superior brain fuel ketones lost.7 -
russelljam08 wrote: »Exogenous ketones will not help with weight loss. It is an additional fuel that may be used be by the brain. The brain appears to run better on ketones but it will grow glucose dependent if that is what it is getting all of the time.
Dom D'Agostino has some interesting research into exogenous ketones and brain health. A few years back he looked into exogenous ketone use for navy seals to help avoid seizures when ascending without needing to be low carb all the time. It worked. The brain will use exogenous ketones even in the presence of a fair bit of glucose. It also appears to help with brain injury healing (stroke and concussions).
Mary Newport has some interesting information on the use of exogenous ketones for treatment in Alzheimer's patients that looks very promising.
Ketones appear to be quite good for the brain. I'm not sure about world peace and winning lotto numbers though.
Then humans would have evolved to use ketones as the brains primary fuel if it was "run better". Yet, it didn't. Ketones are "backup" fuel for a reason, they are inferior. Get over it, in the battle of superior brain fuel ketones lost.
Get over it?
This is not a contest. This is where some current research is heading. For some people, for some reason, carbs are not ideal for brain health and ketones are better - main only in those with IR issues which is somewhere around half of all people. Alzheimer's is often called type 3 diabetes and we know carbs are sub optimal there. Epileptics are not given high carb diets to control their seizures for a reason.
I am sure that high fibre, whole food carbs like veggies or nuts are better for the brain than refined carbs, but if one is using ketones for therapeutic reasons, skipping refined carbs and sugar may not do enough.
Food can be your medicine. Carbs, the nonessential macro, may not be the ideal medicine for brain health. For bulking? Sure. Brain health? No, it isn't.
And for those who require no medicine - meaning they are not sick/have no health problems in this area or have no predisposition to these health problems - then they should not worry about taking medicine (getting ketones). Eat the carbs and no exogenous ketones then.
10 -
russelljam08 wrote: »Exogenous ketones will not help with weight loss. It is an additional fuel that may be used be by the brain. The brain appears to run better on ketones but it will grow glucose dependent if that is what it is getting all of the time.
Dom D'Agostino has some interesting research into exogenous ketones and brain health. A few years back he looked into exogenous ketone use for navy seals to help avoid seizures when ascending without needing to be low carb all the time. It worked. The brain will use exogenous ketones even in the presence of a fair bit of glucose. It also appears to help with brain injury healing (stroke and concussions).
Mary Newport has some interesting information on the use of exogenous ketones for treatment in Alzheimer's patients that looks very promising.
Ketones appear to be quite good for the brain. I'm not sure about world peace and winning lotto numbers though.
Then humans would have evolved to use ketones as the brains primary fuel if it was "run better". Yet, it didn't. Ketones are "backup" fuel for a reason, they are inferior. Get over it, in the battle of superior brain fuel ketones lost.
Get over it?
This is not a contest. This is where some current research is heading. For some people, for some reason, carbs are not ideal for brain health and ketones are better - main only in those with IR issues which is somewhere around half of all people. Alzheimer's is often called type 3 diabetes and we know carbs are sub optimal there. Epileptics are not given high carb diets to control their seizures for a reason.
I am sure that high fibre, whole food carbs like veggies or nuts are better for the brain than refined carbs, but if one is using ketones for therapeutic reasons, skipping refined carbs and sugar may not do enough.
Food can be your medicine. Carbs, the nonessential macro, may not be the ideal medicine for brain health. For bulking? Sure. Brain health? No, it isn't.
And for those who require no medicine - meaning they are not sick/have no health problems in this area or have no predisposition to these health problems - then they should not worry about taking medicine (getting ketones). Eat the carbs and no exogenous ketones then.
What part of backup fuel don't you get. I get it your a zealot and are highly deluded about human physiology, but fact are facts. The brain is REQUIRED to have glucose, not ketones (again BACKUP fuel). Your body won't break down its own tissues to make ketones for the brain, but it will to make the REQUIRED glucose.10 -
russelljam08 wrote: »russelljam08 wrote: »Exogenous ketones will not help with weight loss. It is an additional fuel that may be used be by the brain. The brain appears to run better on ketones but it will grow glucose dependent if that is what it is getting all of the time.
Dom D'Agostino has some interesting research into exogenous ketones and brain health. A few years back he looked into exogenous ketone use for navy seals to help avoid seizures when ascending without needing to be low carb all the time. It worked. The brain will use exogenous ketones even in the presence of a fair bit of glucose. It also appears to help with brain injury healing (stroke and concussions).
Mary Newport has some interesting information on the use of exogenous ketones for treatment in Alzheimer's patients that looks very promising.
Ketones appear to be quite good for the brain. I'm not sure about world peace and winning lotto numbers though.
Then humans would have evolved to use ketones as the brains primary fuel if it was "run better". Yet, it didn't. Ketones are "backup" fuel for a reason, they are inferior. Get over it, in the battle of superior brain fuel ketones lost.
Get over it?
This is not a contest. This is where some current research is heading. For some people, for some reason, carbs are not ideal for brain health and ketones are better - main only in those with IR issues which is somewhere around half of all people. Alzheimer's is often called type 3 diabetes and we know carbs are sub optimal there. Epileptics are not given high carb diets to control their seizures for a reason.
I am sure that high fibre, whole food carbs like veggies or nuts are better for the brain than refined carbs, but if one is using ketones for therapeutic reasons, skipping refined carbs and sugar may not do enough.
Food can be your medicine. Carbs, the nonessential macro, may not be the ideal medicine for brain health. For bulking? Sure. Brain health? No, it isn't.
And for those who require no medicine - meaning they are not sick/have no health problems in this area or have no predisposition to these health problems - then they should not worry about taking medicine (getting ketones). Eat the carbs and no exogenous ketones then.
What part of backup fuel don't you get. I get it your a zealot and are highly deluded about human physiology, but fact are facts. The brain is REQUIRED to have glucose, not ketones (again BACKUP fuel). Your body won't break down its own tissues to make ketones for the brain, but it will to make the REQUIRED glucose.
Pleasant.
Yes, the brain requires a small amount of glucose - around 40g a day. So do red blood cells. That does not mean you need to eat carbs. The body easily can make that through gluconeogenesis. Easily. You probably know that.
Your argument is sort of like saying that you should eat testosterone or cholesterol because your body needs them. The body makes it unless you have a serious health problem.
This is a moot argument anyways. The OP is not eating super low carb and was wondering if exogenous ketones could confer some health benefits. The answer is that it might depending on her health and circumstances.1 -
You have it backwards. Ketones don't make your body use fat for energy, ketones are the result of the metabolism of fats under low carbohydrate diets or starvation conditions.
Carbohydrates don't interact with ketones, they are just the prefered energy source and your body will tend to burn them first. That said having carbohydrates in your diet, even a lot of carbohydrates, does not prevent your body from utilizing its own fat stores. In fact there is nothing special about a low carbohydrate diet that makes your body use any more of its own fat stores than any other diet with an equivalent caloric intake.
All ketones are are the breakdown product of an alternate metabolic pathway that metabolism is shunted to under extremely low carbohydrate levels as a means of producing an energy source for your brain that your body still needs. If you take in carbohydrates your body will shut down that pathway. But that is fine, don't worry about it....that doesn't prevent you from losing fat.9 -
My only takeaway. Ketone supplementation may make me smarter, and improve focus0
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Marcie9278 wrote: »But as part of my journey, I want to try all things to see what works and what doesn't work. I'm testing ME. Hehe...so you can say "Get off the train." or "It's doing absolutely nothing..." but I'll just ignore it.
Looking for people who really know and can point me in the direction of answers
This part concerns me. What you are saying about the influence of ketones and carbohydrates on your body is incorrect and yet you seem to be implying that if people point out that it is incorrect that you will actively ignore them. I'm not sure how to respond to this.
Ketones don't make you lose weight anymore than carbon dioxide makes you lose weight, both are just metabolic breakdown products that occur when you break down fats for energy. They don't make you lose fat, they are produced when you utilize fat. To utilize the fat in your body you need to be in a caloric deficit, same as with literally any other diet.
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Wait a second, I was confused why you were refering to them as being exogenous (which would imply that they weren't sourced from your own body) but then I just realized you mean you are literally taking ketones as a supplement. That strikes me as rather strange, it would be like taking sugar as a supplement.
Is the idea that if you are in ketosis from your diet you want to avoid carbs so you continue to be in ketosis yet you feel you aren't getting enough energy so you supplement with additional ketones? That is kind of weird. I mean whatever fat you consume or your body breaks down will be converted in part to ketone bodies so you'd have the same effect from just eating more.
If you eat carbohydrates then your body will no longer be in ketosis as you will no longer need to produce ketone bodies. But I'm not sure why that is a concern either. In the end whether or not you decide to supplement with a store bought ketone supplement or just eat a spoonful of sugar the end result will be basically the same.1
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