Strength training calories?
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msbridgetteanne
Posts: 37 Member
I'll start by saying that I use an HRM to track my calories. I know they aren't 100% accurate by any means, but it does work out well for me: I lose about what I expect when I eat back the calories my HRM says I burn.
At least I did.
About six months ago, I added strength training with a personal trainer to my routine. When I logged the calories burned during training, I found that I either lost very little that week or nothing at all. In a couple instances, I even gained. My trainer did warn me that, while building muscle, the scale may not reflect the weight I'm losing, but my issue is I've also lost very little in terms of girth in the six months I've been doing this. In the case of my hips, I didn't lose even a fraction of an inch.
At some point in this process, I decided to stop logging any calories my HRM says I've burned during strength training and only eat back what I burn through cardio. The result is I'm losing more per week than I expect now. I feel like I should be eating more, because the strength training is taking a lot out of me, but how do I know how much more to eat?
At least I did.
About six months ago, I added strength training with a personal trainer to my routine. When I logged the calories burned during training, I found that I either lost very little that week or nothing at all. In a couple instances, I even gained. My trainer did warn me that, while building muscle, the scale may not reflect the weight I'm losing, but my issue is I've also lost very little in terms of girth in the six months I've been doing this. In the case of my hips, I didn't lose even a fraction of an inch.
At some point in this process, I decided to stop logging any calories my HRM says I've burned during strength training and only eat back what I burn through cardio. The result is I'm losing more per week than I expect now. I feel like I should be eating more, because the strength training is taking a lot out of me, but how do I know how much more to eat?
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Replies
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Strength training doesn't burn all that many calories, and HRMs are really, really bad at judging what you do burn, so it's really common for people not to eat back those calories. If you're happy losing at the rate you're losing and aren't feeling negative side effects, you're fine doing what you're doing.4
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HRMs can provide a reasonably good estimate of energy expenditure for steady state cardio...they are virtually useless outside of that. The HR is used in an algorithm as a proxy for oxygen uptake, and lifting isn't a very good measure of that, so there is no correlation really for that activity...steady state cardio/aerobic exercise is a good measure of oxygen intake, so there is some, but no direct correlation there.2
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We weigh food to the gram and then we adjust the calorie goal with something akin to voodoo when it comes to figuring out burn.2
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Disclaimer...only a random Mfp user and lifting for three years. On lifting days I have an extra protein powder serving. Specifically Optimum Nutrition whey isolate for 120.0
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msbridgetteanne wrote: »I'll start by saying that I use an HRM to track my calories. I know they aren't 100% accurate by any means, but it does work out well for me: I lose about what I expect when I eat back the calories my HRM says I burn.
At least I did.
About six months ago, I added strength training with a personal trainer to my routine. When I logged the calories burned during training, I found that I either lost very little that week or nothing at all. In a couple instances, I even gained. My trainer did warn me that, while building muscle, the scale may not reflect the weight I'm losing, but my issue is I've also lost very little in terms of girth in the six months I've been doing this. In the case of my hips, I didn't lose even a fraction of an inch.
At some point in this process, I decided to stop logging any calories my HRM says I've burned during strength training and only eat back what I burn through cardio. The result is I'm losing more per week than I expect now. I feel like I should be eating more, because the strength training is taking a lot out of me, but how do I know how much more to eat?
If counting 100% of the HRM calories for strength training was giving you little to no weight loss, and counting 0% of the HRM calories for strength has you losing more than you expect, why not try counting 50% of the HRM calories for strength training? (I'm assuming losing more than you expect = losing more than you consider to be appropriate, because presumably your expectation/plan/goal would be for a rate of loss you do consider to be appropriate.)7 -
msbridgetteanne wrote: »I'll start by saying that I use an HRM to track my calories. I know they aren't 100% accurate by any means, but it does work out well for me: I lose about what I expect when I eat back the calories my HRM says I burn.
At least I did.
About six months ago, I added strength training with a personal trainer to my routine. When I logged the calories burned during training, I found that I either lost very little that week or nothing at all. In a couple instances, I even gained. My trainer did warn me that, while building muscle, the scale may not reflect the weight I'm losing, but my issue is I've also lost very little in terms of girth in the six months I've been doing this. In the case of my hips, I didn't lose even a fraction of an inch.
At some point in this process, I decided to stop logging any calories my HRM says I've burned during strength training and only eat back what I burn through cardio. The result is I'm losing more per week than I expect now. I feel like I should be eating more, because the strength training is taking a lot out of me, but how do I know how much more to eat?
As others have mentioned, HRMs are for steady state cardio. You can log weightlifting as an exercise entry here on MFP and it will give you a generalized value. Otherwise, just go by your results. Start by giving yourself 100 extra calories, then see what happens after a couple of weeks. Add more if you need to. Either way, you basically have to make an educated guess and tweak from there based on results.2 -
msbridgetteanne wrote: »I'll start by saying that I use an HRM to track my calories. I know they aren't 100% accurate by any means, but it does work out well for me: I lose about what I expect when I eat back the calories my HRM says I burn.
At least I did.
About six months ago, I added strength training with a personal trainer to my routine. When I logged the calories burned during training, I found that I either lost very little that week or nothing at all. In a couple instances, I even gained. My trainer did warn me that, while building muscle, the scale may not reflect the weight I'm losing, but my issue is I've also lost very little in terms of girth in the six months I've been doing this. In the case of my hips, I didn't lose even a fraction of an inch.
At some point in this process, I decided to stop logging any calories my HRM says I've burned during strength training and only eat back what I burn through cardio. The result is I'm losing more per week than I expect now. I feel like I should be eating more, because the strength training is taking a lot out of me, but how do I know how much more to eat?
As others have mentioned, HRMs are for steady state cardio. You can log weightlifting as an exercise entry here on MFP and it will give you a generalized value. Otherwise, just go by your results. Start by giving yourself 100 extra calories, then see what happens after a couple of weeks. Add more if you need to. Either way, you basically have to make an educated guess and tweak from there based on results.
^^Or, yeah, do that, rather than mess around with trying to find the right percentage of what your HRM is telling you.0 -
What sort of calorie burns were being calculated? I'm usually at 3-4 calories per minute, but my HRM includes "resting calories" (about 1.5 per minute) in that calculation, so I only eat back between 50-60% of them.0
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Other than an obviously bad guess at calories, what do you get from wearing an HRM while you lift? What value is there in knowing or recording your HR response? What do you get out of that data?0
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NorthCascades wrote: »Other than an obviously bad guess at calories, what do you get from wearing an HRM while you lift? What value is there in knowing or recording your HR response? What do you get out of that data?
My theory is that a "bad guess" calculated using my actual personal data, including my HR, age, sex, weight, etc., is much, much better than a bad guess from a common generic table. The same table on MFP is used by a 5'2 115lb 17-year-old female and a 6'2 210lb 37-year-old male. Plug 60 minutes into MFP's "strength Training" exercise and it gives you 238 calories or about 4 calories per minute - that is ballpark what my HRM calculates, 3-4 CPM.
In addition:
1) I don't have to type training data in manually, my tracker calculates it,
2) it also captures the date, time, duration, and place where I work out, so I have a complete record of my training by pushing a few buttons on my tracker.
I love data, - I am sometimes able to react and fine tune my exercise regiment based on data, and I am pretty much in for increasing the efficiency of my fitness program by using electronics.1 -
I used the MFP weight training entry under 'cardio' and compared it against real life results.
It was pretty accurate for me, others have had to adjust the percentage up or down.
You can, once you have worked out what your calorie burn is, if under or over the MFP estimate, make your own entry, with your individual burn, and it will adjust for time spent.
Cheers, h.0 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »I love data, - I am sometimes able to react and fine tune my exercise regiment based on data, and I am pretty much in for increasing the efficiency of my fitness program by using electronics.
You and I are the same in this regard. That's why I'm curious about what benefit people find in wearing an HRM while lifting. I flat out don't believe it's even a little better than anything else for guessing at the calories involved, but I can't shake the feeling there might be some other benefit.
For what it's worth, I think you use a F3HR, is that right? Support for strength training on Garmin Connect is starting to impress me. I tell my watch I'm lifting, it tries to count reps and guess what lifts I'm doing; I correct this manually as needed. It gives me a report showing my progress in the weight room. I find this motivating.2 -
middlehaitch wrote: »I used the MFP weight training entry under 'cardio' and compared it against real life results.
It was pretty accurate for me, others have had to adjust the percentage up or down.
You can, once you have worked out what your calorie burn is, if under or over the MFP estimate, make your own entry, with your individual burn, and it will adjust for time spent.
Cheers, h.
This was going to be my suggestion as well. If the number is less than what your HRM was telling you (but obviously more than 0), then it's a fair estimate to start with. (At my weight, it estimates 2.75 cal/min).0 -
msbridgetteanne wrote: »I'll start by saying that I use an HRM to track my calories. I know they aren't 100% accurate by any means, but it does work out well for me: I lose about what I expect when I eat back the calories my HRM says I burn.
At least I did.
About six months ago, I added strength training with a personal trainer to my routine. When I logged the calories burned during training, I found that I either lost very little that week or nothing at all. In a couple instances, I even gained. My trainer did warn me that, while building muscle, the scale may not reflect the weight I'm losing, but my issue is I've also lost very little in terms of girth in the six months I've been doing this. In the case of my hips, I didn't lose even a fraction of an inch.
At some point in this process, I decided to stop logging any calories my HRM says I've burned during strength training and only eat back what I burn through cardio. The result is I'm losing more per week than I expect now. I feel like I should be eating more, because the strength training is taking a lot out of me, but how do I know how much more to eat?
Have you tried eating a portion of them back?0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »I love data, - I am sometimes able to react and fine tune my exercise regiment based on data, and I am pretty much in for increasing the efficiency of my fitness program by using electronics.
You and I are the same in this regard. That's why I'm curious about what benefit people find in wearing an HRM while lifting. I flat out don't believe it's even a little better than anything else for guessing at the calories involved, but I can't shake the feeling there might be some other benefit.
For what it's worth, I think you use a F3HR, is that right? Support for strength training on Garmin Connect is starting to impress me. I tell my watch I'm lifting, it tries to count reps and guess what lifts I'm doing; I correct this manually as needed. It gives me a report showing my progress in the weight room. I find this motivating.
I do have an F3HR - for a few weeks there were enhanced strength training metrics included, which actually did measure your "work time" and "rest time", which I found useful, but then this feature just stopped, lol, I've been trying to figure out what happened. I know that the F5HR and one of the others (maybe one of the Forerunners) has consistently measured this.
The Max / Avg HR is useful to me, especially when I compare two workouts that are essentially the same and one seemed to derive a higher HR. Sometimes I can pinpoint a particular exercise that gave me a higher HR (sometimes diet and sleep duration are the root cause, I have found)2 -
msbridgetteanne wrote: »I feel like I should be eating more, because the strength training is taking a lot out of me, but how do I know how much more to eat?
I wouldn't worry so much about what the HR says for strength training calories - Use your own data for calories consumed and weight loss. If you are menstruating, be aware that your weight will change depending on your cycle, so having a few months of data at least is best. Assuming you are maintaining a regular strength training routine, you might then decide to add a couple of hundred calories a day (~1400 a week) to slow your loss and fuel your workout & recovery. Evaluate after a month of doing this. If you are still losing weight (and you want to lose weight) that's great. If you are maintaining weight, give it another month before making an adjustment. More fuel in = more food being processed in your but = more water retention, so a spike is to be expected which has nothing to do with "fat."
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Bry_Lander wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Other than an obviously bad guess at calories, what do you get from wearing an HRM while you lift? What value is there in knowing or recording your HR response? What do you get out of that data?
My theory is that a "bad guess" calculated using my actual personal data, including my HR, age, sex, weight, etc., is much, much better than a bad guess from a common generic table. The same table on MFP is used by a 5'2 115lb 17-year-old female and a 6'2 210lb 37-year-old male. Plug 60 minutes into MFP's "strength Training" exercise and it gives you 238 calories or about 4 calories per minute - that is ballpark what my HRM calculates, 3-4 CPM.
In addition:
1) I don't have to type training data in manually, my tracker calculates it,
2) it also captures the date, time, duration, and place where I work out, so I have a complete record of my training by pushing a few buttons on my tracker.
I love data, - I am sometimes able to react and fine tune my exercise regiment based on data, and I am pretty much in for increasing the efficiency of my fitness program by using electronics.
I suspect you know this, since you're a smart/knowledgeable person, but I'm concerned that others might get the wrong takeaway. The exercise logging function in MFP scales the cardio exercise calories based on what you've most recently logged as your current weight, including for the strength training "cardio" entry. It estimated noticeably more cals/hr for 180lb me vs. 120lb me.
I don't do lots of weight training, but when I do, I log it with the MFP standard estimate. For some reason, weight training makes me ravenous, and I know I'm burning something extra, so I just shrug and log it this way to get a few extra calories for a protein/carb snack. Works out OK, but the numbers are minor enough that off-ness mightn't be obvious.
ETA: I have a HRM, and use it for SS cardio & things in that near neighborhood. Its estimates for strength training are waaay stupid, based on 15+ years personal experience with RPE. Various forms of strain drive up HR, but don't burn extra calories.1
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