Venting about medications

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jasummers76
jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I am on seraquil at the moment. I have a maintenance dosage of 200mg at night. Well I have had to increase that to 600mg a night. 200 no cravings weight loss nice and steady. 600 I am up in the middle of the night craving sweets and carbs. I have been on 600 for about a week and am up 5 lbs. I know I didn't gain five pounds that quickly. I am on 1500 kcals a day but am eating close to 2300 - 2400 a day. I can't wait for this episode to end so I can go back to my regular dosage. I am not here looking for comments about how meds do not cause cravings or hunger. If they don't for you that is great but for some of us they do. Okay venting is over
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  • HellYeahItsKriss
    HellYeahItsKriss Posts: 906 Member
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    so.. what should we do? this is a help thread.
  • ladyhusker39
    ladyhusker39 Posts: 1,406 Member
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    I can see how increasing the dose that much could cause all kinds of side effects. If it's not for long, maybe just shift to high volume/low calorie foods and see if that helps. Otherwise, if it's not too long just recognize what's going on and work it off again once the dose comes back down?

    Tough call in any case. I hope it works out for you.
  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
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    ladyhusker39 wrote: »
    I can see how increasing the dose that much could cause all kinds of side effects. If it's not for long, maybe just shift to high volume/low calorie foods and see if that helps. Otherwise, if it's not too long just recognize what's going on and work it off again once the dose comes back down?

    Tough call in any case. I hope it works out for you.

    Great point. Today I stuck with a couple low card chicken wraps with salsa and some popcorn. Netted about 675kcals. The thing is the medication is not willing to listen to "high volume / low calorie" in the middle of the night. It is saying "your son won't miss that one snack pack" lol

    But you are right, I know this increase will only be a few more days tops and then a couple to get the increase out of my system.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    I used to take just 25mg at night as a sleeping pill, and each and every time I woke up the next morning ravenous looking for chocolate, something i would never normally do. I craved sweets/carbs all day long. Seroquel is a mighty powerful drug...
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    Seroquel was the first "proper" bipolar med I took and those initial cravings are very real but they do reduce. I didn't care at the time but if I was starting it now I'd have a totally different strategy (one involving a lot of lean protein). But you're a guy right? So 2600 should at a minimum be maintenance. So if you'd been in a deficit prior then what you've gained is highly unlikely to be fat at all but just more food in your system and replenished glycogen. Taking a step back and looking at it objectively can be really helpful.

    I would totally just shoot for maintenance whilst waiting for the cravings to chill once you've adjusted. I started losing whilst I was on and whilst tapering off.

    The interesting thing about seroquel is that it is prescribed as a sleep aid at a low dose, as above, because it is more sedating at the lower doses but as a psych treatment it is less sedating at the therapeutic dose once you've adjusted.

    And I know you just wanted to vent but I'm just here to share experiences because that's what happens in public forums.
  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
    edited December 2017
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    Thanks ladies, I actually took a sleep aid last night and slept through the night. Tonight I am reducing the dosage too 400mg just to make sure this manic episode has passed. I had no problem at 200mg dropping 70 some odd pounds since 6/22. When I started I was losing about 2 to 2.5 pounds a week do to the amount I had too lose now mfp has cut my kcals from about 1730 to 1500 a day. So I understand the weight will come off slower since I am now within 40 to 50 pounds away from my desired weight instead of over 100lbs. Yeah for me certain Bipolar meds are difficult to handle and control the cravings. But since losing the weight lower dosages seem to be helping maintain my balance while weighing over 300lbs I would have to take far more for the same affect.
  • JeromeBarry1
    JeromeBarry1 Posts: 10,182 Member
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    It beats reading about VLCD master cleanse. Hang in there, bub.
  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
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    JeromeBarry1 wrote: »
    It beats reading about VLCD master cleanse. Hang in there, bub.

    Thanks friend, I did go around 800 kcals yesterday thinking I was going to awake once again in the middle of the night eating crap. But today I will keep them around 1200 to 1300 as I prefer not to take Ambien no more than a couple nights a month. Like you're eluding too some folks get so upset with themselves after a few days of eating beyond their kcals and then starve or do excessive cardio. I think I have grown to accept I will have bad days and not only do too medications, but say the upcoming holidays. I no longer allow a bad day or week to throw me off my new eating habits as I did in previous attempts to lose.
  • Muscleflex79
    Muscleflex79 Posts: 1,917 Member
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    I was afraid this would be another thread blaming a medication for weight gain, glad you acknowledged that you increased your calories and obviously THAT is the problem - increased appetite - not something magical in the medication itself (as many seem to claim).
  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
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    Muscleflex79 wrote: »
    I was afraid this would be another thread blaming a medication for weight gain, glad you acknowledged that you increased your calories and obviously THAT is the problem - increased appetite - not something magical in the medication itself (as many seem to claim).

    The increase in the medication was definitely a contributing factor. During a Bipolar manic episode often people have this need for immediate gratification. For me it was the carbs and sweets. As I said at my usual maintenance dosage I am able to stick with my eating plan. Other than the medication increase there were no other factors that would explain the increase desire for carbs and sweets.

    Other times when someone is going through a period of clinical depression the may not eat healthy. Why because for me at least I don't care at that time. Food is a comfort to me when depressed one of the few and working out is the last thing a person who is spending most of their days in bed is concerned with. I consider none of these a weakness or lack of effort.

    I consider myself a lucky person. After being diagnosed 10 years ago I am finally stable. Sure I am going through a manic episode at the moment but I understand it will pass. Many others are not as fortunate as me, and are still looking for that combination of medications to help them.

    The thing that bothers me is when people who may have taken the same medications and didn't experience any unusual side effects think that others are using it as a excuse. It kinda is like saying I too am Bipolar and depakote fixed my issue so it will for you too. Everyone reacts too medications differently both positively and negatively.
  • passenger79
    passenger79 Posts: 257 Member
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    I'm on Seroquel ( Quetapine) in UK. In space of 3 months my dose was increased from 25mg to 300mg and it's likely it ll keep increasing as I'm nowhere near stable.

    So I hear you. I 've put 10lb on I 've lost pre Q through drowsy/ no sense of being full binging / massive cravings and then another 20 lb because I felt so *kitten* for being diagnosed Bipolar I just comfort ate and rapidly cycling is making it difficult to stick with a set plan.

    So it is hard as it takes extra strength to concentrate on your health when you are trying to get stable.

    I don't have any amazing advice just wanted to show my support and you ll get there ,stay strong x
  • Iwantahealthierme30
    Iwantahealthierme30 Posts: 293 Member
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    Why have you gone up from 200 to 600? That's a mighty jump. I've only been as high as 500 and I am on 100 now but I can tell you that it didn't cause overeating for me. Though I know it does for some people, I had a friend who used to eat frosting on crackers.

    It's possible to lose on seroquel you just have to stick to your calorie goal but maybe 1500 is too low for you. I've been having luck with 1660 and just a little bit over or under, still losing 1.5-2 pounds a week What are your stats?
  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
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    passenger79 wrote: »
    I'm on Seroquel ( Quetapine) in UK. In space of 3 months my dose was increased from 25mg to 300mg and it's likely it ll keep increasing as I'm nowhere near stable.
    So I hear you. I 've put 10lb on I 've lost pre Q through drowsy/ no sense of being full binging / massive cravings and then another 20 lb because I felt so *kitten* for being diagnosed Bipolar I just comfort ate and rapidly cycling is making it difficult to stick with a set plan. So it is hard as it takes extra strength to concentrate on your health when you are trying to get stable. I don't have any amazing advice just wanted to show my support and you ll get there ,stay strong x

    Thank you, I just want to say being stable will happen for you.

    Unfortunately, there is no simple proven blood test out there to give people who suffer from mental health issues a medication that will help it is trial and error at this point. I too was very upset when first diagnosed. The advice I would give is this if the Quetapine is working stick to it, as being stable is the most important thing. I like you am a rapid cycling Bipolar 2. If after several months "should know within 6 to 8 weeks" at the 300mg dosage you are still cycling as often talk to your doctor. There is no point staying on a medication that is causing unpleasant side effects that aren't addressing your Bipolar.

    Also, do not fall into the trap I did when first diagnosed. I was with several horrible doctors who would just prescribe another medication to counteract the side effects of one drug. My wife and I trusted our doctors 1000% in the beginning that was a mistake on our part. But unfortunately, there is no handbook for being Bipolar. Think of it like if a doctor told you that you had cancer and were going to die in 6 months, you would get a second opinion wouldn't you. When and if they put you on multiple medications they do not always tell you what those meds side effects can be alone much less combined medications. You can do your own research online about the medications, or ask your pharmacist/chemist. They know far more about side effects and combinations of medications and so forth then many doctors. But do your research, keep a journal about your moods and if anything could have triggered them. For me, it is sleep, if I do not have a regular sleep pattern, that usually triggers a manic episode. Show the journal to your doctor, the more information they have the better they can help you.

    One other note, I highly suggest talk therapy with a counselor who is familiar with Bipolar. Your doctor should be able to recommend one just "any" therapist will not work. Doing talk therapy has helped me recognize when I was either entering mania or a depressive episode and it allowed me to increase my dosage of a medication " Depakote or Seraquil" temporarily to head it off and not let it consume me for days or weeks. There are two really good groups on Facebook, my wife is in one called Bipolar Spouses and I am in Bipolar marriage/partnership support group. my group is where you will find both types people with Bipolar and loved ones learning how to separate the illness from the person they love.
  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
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    Iwantahealthierme30 wrote: »
    Why have you gone up from 200 to 600? That's a mighty jump. I've only been as high as 500 and I am on 100 now but I can tell you that it didn't cause overeating for me. Though I know it does for some people, I had a friend who used to eat frosting on crackers.

    It's possible to lose on Seroquel you just have to stick to your calorie goal but maybe 1500 is too low for you. I've been having luck with 1660 and just a little bit over or under, still losing 1.5-2 pounds a week What are your stats?

    I was 310 on 6/22/2017 at the 200mg dose and am now in the upper 230's so yes a person can lose while taking it. At least I could at that dosage I will not paint others with a broad brush stroke. Others may not, as with all medication the side effects are different for everyone. We seem to be managing our illness well on Seroquel and thank goodness we are. Others I know, it does nothing to elevate their symptoms. The immediate gratification I seek when in mania is food others it may be sex, spending, starting and never finishing a project, racing thoughts.. you know the symptoms.

    200mg is my maintenance dosage, when I cycle into a manic episode I raised my Seroquel to 400mg and it usually subsides within 3 days I took the 400mgs for 4 days did not work, called the doctor who said to go to 600mg for 7 days unless you feel the mania breaking then decrease to 400mg then back to my maintenance dose of 200mg. This is the first time I have had to go to 600mgs in years the 400mgs usually takes care of it.

    As far as the overeating, it is a non-issue on my regular 200mg dosage, but when kicked up with the mania combined it does cause me to overeat. Not during the day per say, but when I awake in the middle of the night I am not thinking about the cut up chicken breast and 50kcal high fiber wraps in the fridge. I want something sweet and some carbs.

  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
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    Iwantahealthierme30 wrote: »
    Ive been having luck with 1660 and just a little bit over or under, still losing 1.5-2 pounds a week What are your stats?

    I am 5ft 9.5 41yo male weight is 237ish as of this morning. Activity level set at sedentary with a 2lb a week loss goal. Last few weeks been going back and forth a couple pounds. Gained 4 or 5 since upping my dosage. This morning I was down 1.4 or so from yesterday morning. I am sure I just have food in my system and maybe a little water weight. At the 1700 kcals in the beginning I was losing on average 3.2 pounds a week. But I had over a hundred to lose so that isn't uncommon. Now with less to lose the weight loss has slowed and that is fine with me. I am not discouraged by it as I would have been in the past.
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
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    Have you thought about going to maintenance until this episode is over and you can go back to your lower dose? Even if you have a few weeks not losing, it might put you in a mental place just to NOT be gaining. I think there's a huge psychological difference between "I'm trying to lose and going over, so I'm failing at my goal" and "I'm trying to maintain and I'm hitting my goal, so I'm being successful."
  • jasummers76
    jasummers76 Posts: 225 Member
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    AliceDark wrote: »
    Have you thought about going to maintenance until this episode is over and you can go back to your lower dose? Even if you have a few weeks not losing, it might put you in a mental place just to NOT be gaining. I think there's a huge psychological difference between "I'm trying to lose and going over, so I'm failing at my goal" and "I'm trying to maintain and I'm hitting my goal, so I'm being successful."

    I checked my maintenance calories and it is between 2400 and 2430 on the two sites I checked so I suppose I am doing decent. I am sure the increase in the scale is water weight and the food type and it not really going through my system yet. Great advice, thank you

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