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I'm late coming into this thread. Sorry for my tardiness. I was exploring my future.
@sjp_511 , @__TMac__ , @ryenday , @MaggieGirl135 - you all know that these magazines are put out by different publishers, right? "Boys Life" is put out by the Boy Scouts of America for boys (and girls in Venturing). "Girls Life" is put out by Monarch Services, and is intended to be a junior "Glamour" or "Cosmo."
I get that the contrast between these two is striking. But it's not like both magazines are put out by one publisher who sends disparate messages to boys and girls. And there are certainly magazines out there for girls that are less superficial.
@CSARdiver, I won't quibble too much with you about the BSA program. As a Cub Scout leader for the past 12 years, I feel like the program offers a lot that boys just don't get anywhere else. And I've heard from plenty of girls' parents who say similar things - they can't get what they want for their girls from the Girl Scouts. I agree with your hope that the membership policy changes make the BSA better for boys AND girls.
4 -
I'm late coming into this thread. Sorry for my tardiness. I was exploring my future.
@sjp_511 , @__TMac__ , @ryenday , @MaggieGirl135 - you all know that these magazines are put out by different publishers, right? "Boys Life" is put out by the Boy Scouts of America for boys (and girls in Venturing). "Girls Life" is put out by Monarch Services, and is intended to be a junior "Glamour" or "Cosmo."
I get that the contrast between these two is striking. But it's not like both magazines are put out by one publisher who sends disparate messages to boys and girls. And there are certainly magazines out there for girls that are less superficial.
@CSARdiver, I won't quibble too much with you about the BSA program. As a Cub Scout leader for the past 12 years, I feel like the program offers a lot that boys just don't get anywhere else. And I've heard from plenty of girls' parents who say similar things - they can't get what they want for their girls from the Girl Scouts. I agree with your hope that the membership policy changes make the BSA better for boys AND girls.
I have to agree with you both about the quality of the Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts. I have recently somehow found myself a Bears den leader (don't ask, LOL)...it is very cool to see their excitement at earning their Whittling Chips, doing a skit night, planning for a camping trip, and such. We don't have any girls in the troop, but we do have a handful of older sisters that attend every meeting and go on the excursions. And I have been very impressed with the quality of Boy's Life Magazine. After reading this discussion, I will make sure my daughter is encouraged to read it too.
That Girl's Life Magazine looks like it was designed to suck your soul out.
Both my kids also do 4-H which is another excellent (and obviously gender-neutral) program that gives them a very deep dive into the subjects they are passionate about (art, rabbits, dogs, gardening, robotics, etc.) that gets deeper year after year. It's a great complement to the woodcraft and character taught in the Scouts.5 -
French_Peasant wrote: »
I'm late coming into this thread. Sorry for my tardiness. I was exploring my future.
@sjp_511 , @__TMac__ , @ryenday , @MaggieGirl135 - you all know that these magazines are put out by different publishers, right? "Boys Life" is put out by the Boy Scouts of America for boys (and girls in Venturing). "Girls Life" is put out by Monarch Services, and is intended to be a junior "Glamour" or "Cosmo."
I get that the contrast between these two is striking. But it's not like both magazines are put out by one publisher who sends disparate messages to boys and girls. And there are certainly magazines out there for girls that are less superficial.
@CSARdiver, I won't quibble too much with you about the BSA program. As a Cub Scout leader for the past 12 years, I feel like the program offers a lot that boys just don't get anywhere else. And I've heard from plenty of girls' parents who say similar things - they can't get what they want for their girls from the Girl Scouts. I agree with your hope that the membership policy changes make the BSA better for boys AND girls.
I have to agree with you both about the quality of the Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts. I have recently somehow found myself a Bears den leader (don't ask, LOL)...it is very cool to see their excitement at earning their Whittling Chips, doing a skit night, planning for a camping trip, and such. We don't have any girls in the troop, but we do have a handful of older sisters that attend every meeting and go on the excursions. And I have been very impressed with the quality of Boy's Life Magazine. After reading this discussion, I will make sure my daughter is encouraged to read it too.
That Girl's Life Magazine looks like it was designed to suck your soul out.
Both my kids also do 4-H which is another excellent (and obviously gender-neutral) program that gives them a very deep dive into the subjects they are passionate about (art, rabbits, dogs, gardening, robotics, etc.) that gets deeper year after year. It's a great complement to the woodcraft and character taught in the Scouts.
I've been involved with the BSA program for 40 years now as participant and leader and just seen a once great organization diminish. The explorer program is in my mind the best of them. 4-H is a great program as well. I do see a revitalization recently however, especially with many parents turning more traditional and wanting kids to get off of screens and outdoors.
Much of this has to do with the local level. You can tell the difference when you walk in the door - are the children being lead or are they leading? The purpose of the program is increasing responsibility and to set kids up for success. Sadly many become nothing more than merit badge programs.2 -
French_Peasant wrote: »
I'm late coming into this thread. Sorry for my tardiness. I was exploring my future.
@sjp_511 , @__TMac__ , @ryenday , @MaggieGirl135 - you all know that these magazines are put out by different publishers, right? "Boys Life" is put out by the Boy Scouts of America for boys (and girls in Venturing). "Girls Life" is put out by Monarch Services, and is intended to be a junior "Glamour" or "Cosmo."
I get that the contrast between these two is striking. But it's not like both magazines are put out by one publisher who sends disparate messages to boys and girls. And there are certainly magazines out there for girls that are less superficial.
@CSARdiver, I won't quibble too much with you about the BSA program. As a Cub Scout leader for the past 12 years, I feel like the program offers a lot that boys just don't get anywhere else. And I've heard from plenty of girls' parents who say similar things - they can't get what they want for their girls from the Girl Scouts. I agree with your hope that the membership policy changes make the BSA better for boys AND girls.
I have to agree with you both about the quality of the Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts. I have recently somehow found myself a Bears den leader (don't ask, LOL)...it is very cool to see their excitement at earning their Whittling Chips, doing a skit night, planning for a camping trip, and such. We don't have any girls in the troop, but we do have a handful of older sisters that attend every meeting and go on the excursions. And I have been very impressed with the quality of Boy's Life Magazine. After reading this discussion, I will make sure my daughter is encouraged to read it too.
That Girl's Life Magazine looks like it was designed to suck your soul out.
Both my kids also do 4-H which is another excellent (and obviously gender-neutral) program that gives them a very deep dive into the subjects they are passionate about (art, rabbits, dogs, gardening, robotics, etc.) that gets deeper year after year. It's a great complement to the woodcraft and character taught in the Scouts.
I've been involved with the BSA program for 40 years now as participant and leader and just seen a once great organization diminish. The explorer program is in my mind the best of them. 4-H is a great program as well. I do see a revitalization recently however, especially with many parents turning more traditional and wanting kids to get off of screens and outdoors.
Much of this has to do with the local level. You can tell the difference when you walk in the door - are the children being lead or are they leading? The purpose of the program is increasing responsibility and to set kids up for success. Sadly many become nothing more than merit badge programs.
Wanna help me run a Bears den meeting tonight? LOL. They are always bouncing off the walls with excitement, so I don't think a lot of leadership is going on. We just need to be able to get out into the woods. So far I have only been at one event with our companion group of Boy Scouts, but there seemed to be very competent leadership, both with the scout masters and the older boys helping the cub scouts.
It is interesting, however, that in 4-H they can start shooting sports in 3rd grade (air rifle; I think .22 starts in 4th) whereas with the Scouts you have to be considerably older to even think about touching a BB gun.1 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »
I'm late coming into this thread. Sorry for my tardiness. I was exploring my future.
@sjp_511 , @__TMac__ , @ryenday , @MaggieGirl135 - you all know that these magazines are put out by different publishers, right? "Boys Life" is put out by the Boy Scouts of America for boys (and girls in Venturing). "Girls Life" is put out by Monarch Services, and is intended to be a junior "Glamour" or "Cosmo."
I get that the contrast between these two is striking. But it's not like both magazines are put out by one publisher who sends disparate messages to boys and girls. And there are certainly magazines out there for girls that are less superficial.
@CSARdiver, I won't quibble too much with you about the BSA program. As a Cub Scout leader for the past 12 years, I feel like the program offers a lot that boys just don't get anywhere else. And I've heard from plenty of girls' parents who say similar things - they can't get what they want for their girls from the Girl Scouts. I agree with your hope that the membership policy changes make the BSA better for boys AND girls.
I have to agree with you both about the quality of the Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts. I have recently somehow found myself a Bears den leader (don't ask, LOL)...it is very cool to see their excitement at earning their Whittling Chips, doing a skit night, planning for a camping trip, and such. We don't have any girls in the troop, but we do have a handful of older sisters that attend every meeting and go on the excursions. And I have been very impressed with the quality of Boy's Life Magazine. After reading this discussion, I will make sure my daughter is encouraged to read it too.
That Girl's Life Magazine looks like it was designed to suck your soul out.
Both my kids also do 4-H which is another excellent (and obviously gender-neutral) program that gives them a very deep dive into the subjects they are passionate about (art, rabbits, dogs, gardening, robotics, etc.) that gets deeper year after year. It's a great complement to the woodcraft and character taught in the Scouts.
I've been involved with the BSA program for 40 years now as participant and leader and just seen a once great organization diminish. The explorer program is in my mind the best of them. 4-H is a great program as well. I do see a revitalization recently however, especially with many parents turning more traditional and wanting kids to get off of screens and outdoors.
Much of this has to do with the local level. You can tell the difference when you walk in the door - are the children being lead or are they leading? The purpose of the program is increasing responsibility and to set kids up for success. Sadly many become nothing more than merit badge programs.
Wanna help me run a Bears den meeting tonight? LOL. They are always bouncing off the walls with excitement, so I don't think a lot of leadership is going on. We just need to be able to get out into the woods. So far I have only been at one event with our companion group of Boy Scouts, but there seemed to be very competent leadership, both with the scout masters and the older boys helping the cub scouts.
It is interesting, however, that in 4-H they can start shooting sports in 3rd grade (air rifle; I think .22 starts in 4th) whereas with the Scouts you have to be considerably older to even think about touching a BB gun.
We start our Cub Scouts with BB guns and archery when they are Tigers, i.e. 1st grade. And we usually let younger siblings shoot at camp, too.
They don't touch .22s or shotguns until they are in Boy Scouts, though.2 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »
I'm late coming into this thread. Sorry for my tardiness. I was exploring my future.
@sjp_511 , @__TMac__ , @ryenday , @MaggieGirl135 - you all know that these magazines are put out by different publishers, right? "Boys Life" is put out by the Boy Scouts of America for boys (and girls in Venturing). "Girls Life" is put out by Monarch Services, and is intended to be a junior "Glamour" or "Cosmo."
I get that the contrast between these two is striking. But it's not like both magazines are put out by one publisher who sends disparate messages to boys and girls. And there are certainly magazines out there for girls that are less superficial.
@CSARdiver, I won't quibble too much with you about the BSA program. As a Cub Scout leader for the past 12 years, I feel like the program offers a lot that boys just don't get anywhere else. And I've heard from plenty of girls' parents who say similar things - they can't get what they want for their girls from the Girl Scouts. I agree with your hope that the membership policy changes make the BSA better for boys AND girls.
I have to agree with you both about the quality of the Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts. I have recently somehow found myself a Bears den leader (don't ask, LOL)...it is very cool to see their excitement at earning their Whittling Chips, doing a skit night, planning for a camping trip, and such. We don't have any girls in the troop, but we do have a handful of older sisters that attend every meeting and go on the excursions. And I have been very impressed with the quality of Boy's Life Magazine. After reading this discussion, I will make sure my daughter is encouraged to read it too.
That Girl's Life Magazine looks like it was designed to suck your soul out.
Both my kids also do 4-H which is another excellent (and obviously gender-neutral) program that gives them a very deep dive into the subjects they are passionate about (art, rabbits, dogs, gardening, robotics, etc.) that gets deeper year after year. It's a great complement to the woodcraft and character taught in the Scouts.
I've been involved with the BSA program for 40 years now as participant and leader and just seen a once great organization diminish. The explorer program is in my mind the best of them. 4-H is a great program as well. I do see a revitalization recently however, especially with many parents turning more traditional and wanting kids to get off of screens and outdoors.
Much of this has to do with the local level. You can tell the difference when you walk in the door - are the children being lead or are they leading? The purpose of the program is increasing responsibility and to set kids up for success. Sadly many become nothing more than merit badge programs.
Wanna help me run a Bears den meeting tonight? LOL. They are always bouncing off the walls with excitement, so I don't think a lot of leadership is going on. We just need to be able to get out into the woods. So far I have only been at one event with our companion group of Boy Scouts, but there seemed to be very competent leadership, both with the scout masters and the older boys helping the cub scouts.
It is interesting, however, that in 4-H they can start shooting sports in 3rd grade (air rifle; I think .22 starts in 4th) whereas with the Scouts you have to be considerably older to even think about touching a BB gun.
We start our Cub Scouts with BB guns and archery when they are Tigers, i.e. 1st grade. And we usually let younger siblings shoot at camp, too.
They don't touch .22s or shotguns until they are in Boy Scouts, though.
I do the "Sesame Street" rules - keep it moving. Give each lesson ~5 mins and move on to keep the interest going. Break this up with sessions of free play and let the kids be in charge for a moment.
We are test piloting the Lion (Kindergarten) program which is shortened sessions and much more activity. We start Tigers with BB guns and archery, but most kids lack the physical strength needed for archery. Too many video games and not enough outside activity.
I'm a range safety officer and while I cannot introduce firearms as part of the scouting program I have leveraged some of the Boy Scouts to train our youth, but this is not part of the BSA program. I love the discipline this imparts to kids (and everyone).2 -
French_Peasant wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »
I'm late coming into this thread. Sorry for my tardiness. I was exploring my future.
@sjp_511 , @__TMac__ , @ryenday , @MaggieGirl135 - you all know that these magazines are put out by different publishers, right? "Boys Life" is put out by the Boy Scouts of America for boys (and girls in Venturing). "Girls Life" is put out by Monarch Services, and is intended to be a junior "Glamour" or "Cosmo."
I get that the contrast between these two is striking. But it's not like both magazines are put out by one publisher who sends disparate messages to boys and girls. And there are certainly magazines out there for girls that are less superficial.
@CSARdiver, I won't quibble too much with you about the BSA program. As a Cub Scout leader for the past 12 years, I feel like the program offers a lot that boys just don't get anywhere else. And I've heard from plenty of girls' parents who say similar things - they can't get what they want for their girls from the Girl Scouts. I agree with your hope that the membership policy changes make the BSA better for boys AND girls.
I have to agree with you both about the quality of the Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts. I have recently somehow found myself a Bears den leader (don't ask, LOL)...it is very cool to see their excitement at earning their Whittling Chips, doing a skit night, planning for a camping trip, and such. We don't have any girls in the troop, but we do have a handful of older sisters that attend every meeting and go on the excursions. And I have been very impressed with the quality of Boy's Life Magazine. After reading this discussion, I will make sure my daughter is encouraged to read it too.
That Girl's Life Magazine looks like it was designed to suck your soul out.
Both my kids also do 4-H which is another excellent (and obviously gender-neutral) program that gives them a very deep dive into the subjects they are passionate about (art, rabbits, dogs, gardening, robotics, etc.) that gets deeper year after year. It's a great complement to the woodcraft and character taught in the Scouts.
I've been involved with the BSA program for 40 years now as participant and leader and just seen a once great organization diminish. The explorer program is in my mind the best of them. 4-H is a great program as well. I do see a revitalization recently however, especially with many parents turning more traditional and wanting kids to get off of screens and outdoors.
Much of this has to do with the local level. You can tell the difference when you walk in the door - are the children being lead or are they leading? The purpose of the program is increasing responsibility and to set kids up for success. Sadly many become nothing more than merit badge programs.
Wanna help me run a Bears den meeting tonight? LOL. They are always bouncing off the walls with excitement, so I don't think a lot of leadership is going on. We just need to be able to get out into the woods. So far I have only been at one event with our companion group of Boy Scouts, but there seemed to be very competent leadership, both with the scout masters and the older boys helping the cub scouts.
It is interesting, however, that in 4-H they can start shooting sports in 3rd grade (air rifle; I think .22 starts in 4th) whereas with the Scouts you have to be considerably older to even think about touching a BB gun.
We start our Cub Scouts with BB guns and archery when they are Tigers, i.e. 1st grade. And we usually let younger siblings shoot at camp, too.
They don't touch .22s or shotguns until they are in Boy Scouts, though.
I do the "Sesame Street" rules - keep it moving. Give each lesson ~5 mins and move on to keep the interest going. Break this up with sessions of free play and let the kids be in charge for a moment.
We are test piloting the Lion (Kindergarten) program which is shortened sessions and much more activity. We start Tigers with BB guns and archery, but most kids lack the physical strength needed for archery. Too many video games and not enough outside activity.
I'm a range safety officer and while I cannot introduce firearms as part of the scouting program I have leveraged some of the Boy Scouts to train our youth, but this is not part of the BSA program. I love the discipline this imparts to kids (and everyone).
I have just been trying to be as hands-on as possible. "Kinesthetic learning," ha ha. We only have 4 Bears, three of whom are really good friends from school and excited to be with each other after toeing the line all day. So, we were reviewing 3 different knots last night, and of course knots (double half hitch of course) were being attached to chairs and the chairs dragged around. (Fortunately they weren't hog tying each other!) (But then again they haven't been taught a proper hog knot.)
I don't ever remember being taught knots in Girl Scouts...I learned a lot of songs as a Brownie, was out a few years, and from 6th grade, all I remember is learning how to do manicures and putting on a fashion show. GS Horse Camp, on the other hand, was AWESOME.1 -
French_Peasant wrote: »
I don't ever remember being taught knots in Girl Scouts...I learned a lot of songs as a Brownie, was out a few years, and from 6th grade, all I remember is learning how to do manicures and putting on a fashion show. GS Horse Camp, on the other hand, was AWESOME.
I think this depends a lot on the interests and focus of the leaders, though. I was a leader when my kids were girl scouts, and we did a lot of outdoors things, like camping and hiking. One year we completed a badge for cycling, which included learning to fix a flat, maintain the bike, bike safety and self-sufficiency. We finished up with a 10 mile ride through Golden Gate Park - that was probably their favorite all-time activity! We focused on these things because that's where the interests of the moms leading the troop were.
Not saying there's any right way or wrong way to structure activities for a scout troop, only that I think each troop's experience will highly depend on the interests of the people choosing the activities. I think virtually everything kids learn in scout troops (and other girl/boy clubs) can be fun and useful in everyday life.3 -
Belly fat appears to be EVIL no matter your gender, lol.1
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French_Peasant wrote: »
I don't ever remember being taught knots in Girl Scouts...I learned a lot of songs as a Brownie, was out a few years, and from 6th grade, all I remember is learning how to do manicures and putting on a fashion show. GS Horse Camp, on the other hand, was AWESOME.
I think this depends a lot on the interests and focus of the leaders, though. I was a leader when my kids were girl scouts, and we did a lot of outdoors things, like camping and hiking. One year we completed a badge for cycling, which included learning to fix a flat, maintain the bike, bike safety and self-sufficiency. We finished up with a 10 mile ride through Golden Gate Park - that was probably their favorite all-time activity! We focused on these things because that's where the interests of the moms leading the troop were.
Not saying there's any right way or wrong way to structure activities for a scout troop, only that I think each troop's experience will highly depend on the interests of the people choosing the activities. I think virtually everything kids learn in scout troops (and other girl/boy clubs) can be fun and useful in everyday life.
I want to come be in your troop!
Riding through Golden Gate Park sounds amazing. Maybe you could lead an adult scout troop with a ride through Napa.
I definitely agree, a lot depends on the caliber and the focus of the leaders, for both boy or girl scouts, and the overall broader organization. And the skills (even manicuring) and songs certainly do last a lifetime.
Both my son and daughter are currently eagerly working on their pinewood derby cars; big sister will be running as an "outlaw" and is coveting the time she spends with her dad working on the car. (I am useless in this area). She also insisted on getting a knife for Christmas when her brother earned his "whittlin' chip." Interestingly, my son has to do a poster on two influential Americans, and while he is doing an important local chief for his first figure, he picked Harriet Tubman for his second. Talk about an awesome woman with some formidable scouting skills! I was really pleased that he picked her.2
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