Is drastic recomp actually easier if one is fatter?
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MarkusDarwath
Posts: 393 Member
Putting this here because I'm not sure where else it would go, and I know there will be some folks who insist that what I'm talking about is impossible.
Anyway, I lost 40 pounds on MFP a couple years ago, doing diet only, then basically let it fall by the wayside. Skipping over a more detailed history... I've since gained most of the weight back, and worse is that my body fat percentage is higher than it's ever been. I'm currently 285# and 38.7% body fat at 6'1" and 47 years old. I know I need to shed at least 15# of body fat to get my blood sugar back under control (type 2 diabetes, and my glucose has been running unacceptably high for a few months, in spite of meds.)
That's the short-term goal. My overall goal is to get to 220# at 15% body fat. Crunching the numbers, even though I need a net weight loss of 65# I actually need to lose 80# total in fat and put back 15# in muscle.
I did TDEE calculations for both my present state and my goal body and was disturbed to discover that my present maintenance calories are actually slightly -under- my goal maintenance, using the same activity levels on both ends. This basically means that I cannot lose weight at an acceptable rate by cutting calories, because my current maintenance is only 2500. When I was dropping weight in the past, I was doing it on 2200 calories per day and excess hunger became a big factor in falling off the wagon. There is no way I could stick with 2000 calories per day for only a pound per week loss... that and going diet-only again would surely result in losing more LBM.
So, I'm in a situation where I -must- create a calorie deficit with exercise. Since I don't want to lose lean mass, and ultimately want to add LBM, obviously strength training is going to be a major part of my program. Of course that by itself is not going to get me to a 1000 calorie per day "deficit", though it will contribute some. To ramp up the fat burning is going to take a lot of cardio as well.
I understand that burning fat and building muscle are normally counter-active because the first requires an energy intake deficit while the latter requires an available energy surplus. However, it seems to me that I have plenty of available energy built-in. If I can eat at basic maintenance for a sedentary activity level while supplying sufficient protein and micronutrients for muscle building, then actually do the work to force the muscle adaptation, I would think the extra required energy could come from burning my fat stores... and then burn more fat beyond that by increasing my cardio demand as well.
Again, I'm aware that recomp is difficult and requires a careful balance of food in vs exercise out, and that some people will claim it's impossible to actually increase LBM and drop total weight simultaneously.... but, I'm looking at this abundance of fuel I'm already carrying on my frame and thinking, "Why -can't- a fifth or so of every fat pound I burn go toward muscle building instead of just blowing off as heat?"
Anyway, I lost 40 pounds on MFP a couple years ago, doing diet only, then basically let it fall by the wayside. Skipping over a more detailed history... I've since gained most of the weight back, and worse is that my body fat percentage is higher than it's ever been. I'm currently 285# and 38.7% body fat at 6'1" and 47 years old. I know I need to shed at least 15# of body fat to get my blood sugar back under control (type 2 diabetes, and my glucose has been running unacceptably high for a few months, in spite of meds.)
That's the short-term goal. My overall goal is to get to 220# at 15% body fat. Crunching the numbers, even though I need a net weight loss of 65# I actually need to lose 80# total in fat and put back 15# in muscle.
I did TDEE calculations for both my present state and my goal body and was disturbed to discover that my present maintenance calories are actually slightly -under- my goal maintenance, using the same activity levels on both ends. This basically means that I cannot lose weight at an acceptable rate by cutting calories, because my current maintenance is only 2500. When I was dropping weight in the past, I was doing it on 2200 calories per day and excess hunger became a big factor in falling off the wagon. There is no way I could stick with 2000 calories per day for only a pound per week loss... that and going diet-only again would surely result in losing more LBM.
So, I'm in a situation where I -must- create a calorie deficit with exercise. Since I don't want to lose lean mass, and ultimately want to add LBM, obviously strength training is going to be a major part of my program. Of course that by itself is not going to get me to a 1000 calorie per day "deficit", though it will contribute some. To ramp up the fat burning is going to take a lot of cardio as well.
I understand that burning fat and building muscle are normally counter-active because the first requires an energy intake deficit while the latter requires an available energy surplus. However, it seems to me that I have plenty of available energy built-in. If I can eat at basic maintenance for a sedentary activity level while supplying sufficient protein and micronutrients for muscle building, then actually do the work to force the muscle adaptation, I would think the extra required energy could come from burning my fat stores... and then burn more fat beyond that by increasing my cardio demand as well.
Again, I'm aware that recomp is difficult and requires a careful balance of food in vs exercise out, and that some people will claim it's impossible to actually increase LBM and drop total weight simultaneously.... but, I'm looking at this abundance of fuel I'm already carrying on my frame and thinking, "Why -can't- a fifth or so of every fat pound I burn go toward muscle building instead of just blowing off as heat?"
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Replies
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The situations in which people gain muscle in a deficit are typically a new lifter, someone returning to lifting, and someone who is carrying significant extra weight. Yes, as someone who is currently morbidly obese you should be able to gain some lean mass if you are lifting.5
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pretty sure I also fit into the "new lifter" category as well
Diet wise, I'm doing low net carb due to the type 2 (trying to keep carb calories at or under 20%) so I'm looking for a variety of foods that are high protein with low calorie density. I know chicken, turkey, lean ham, fish and protein shakes. Anybody have any other suggestions (not tofu, please)?
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With current situation I would say it’s most definitely possible, and like you said you have lots of energy on board in the type of fat but that’s it so protein will need be high cause yes you have lots of own fuel to burn but if wanted to gain muscle at the same time you will need that high protein plus can’t let fats drops to low, no lower than 40g a day for prolonged periods of time, so think your carbs will have to take a bit hit here1
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I've got my protein target set to 1g per pound of the lean body mass I want to achieve.0
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MarkusDarwath wrote: »pretty sure I also fit into the "new lifter" category as well
Diet wise, I'm doing low net carb due to the type 2 (trying to keep carb calories at or under 20%) so I'm looking for a variety of foods that are high protein with low calorie density. I know chicken, turkey, lean ham, fish and protein shakes. Anybody have any other suggestions (not tofu, please)?
Siggi's (plain) Icelandic yogurt and Wallaby Organic Greek yogurt are some of the best protein:calorie ratio foods available, better than the protein powder I used to put into smoothies. The guy behind Siggi's has some kind of thing about sugar so the plain one is very low carb too. The 1.5 pound tub is 75 g for 450 to 690 calories depending how much fat you want with it.2
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