Looking to increase upper body without with body weight
brtgl
Posts: 130 Member
I'm a mostly healthy 50YO male looking to increase upper body muscles, primarily chest and arms. Any recommendations with no weights, except for a pair of 20-pound dumbbells? Is SWORKIT a good option? Since I've been jogging for the past five years, my legs are already in decent shape, so I think I'll spend two-thirds of my effort getting my upper body to catch up. Thanks.
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Replies
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Pushups, pullups, OA/OL variants. Inverted and elevated pushup variants, Ring rows.
See Convict conditioning or Pavel's Naked Warrior or You Are your own Gym or anything from Kavadlo brothers. OR for a change of pace, gymnastic based circuits.2 -
Try darebee - they have some great 30+ Day programs using bodyweight only.2
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Unless youre a extreme responder to training, I doubt you are going to get the results you are looking for.
To build muscle at your age, your going to need sufficient muscle stimulas, recovery, and forced adaptation under progression of a well written program. Along with eating in a surplus, probably protien intake that is slightly larger than 1 gram per lb of body weight, 3 grams of leucine per meal involving protien and patience. 20lb dumbbells is not going to get you started very well on your goal of adding muscle.
Perhaps look into a trainer with a good track record and either buying a barbell setup or a gym membership.
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Unless youre a extreme responder to training, I doubt you are going to get the results you are looking for.
To build muscle at your age, your going to need sufficient muscle stimulus, recovery, and forced adaptation under progression of a well written program. Along with eating in a surplus, probably protein intake that is slightly larger than 1 gram per lb of body weight, 3 grams of leucine per meal involving protein and patience. 20 lb dumbbells are not going to get you started very well on your goal of adding muscle.
Perhaps look into a trainer with a good track record and either buying a barbell setup or a gym membership.
That ^^
But if you want to try, Convict Conditioning or You Are Your Own Gym are go-to bodyweight programs.1 -
IF you're willing to put in the work, you'll get the results without joining a gym or lifting a single barbell.
If you have any questions, review the physiques of the Male gymnast Olympians.
It's certainly easier with a bar, but the benefits of bodyweight are far greater.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Pushups, pullups, OA/OL variants. Inverted and elevated pushup variants, Ring rows.
See Convict conditioning or Pavel's Naked Warrior or You Are your own Gym or anything from Kavadlo brothers. OR for a change of pace, gymnastic based circuits.
This! And too add that just because you run, doesn't mean you can or should skip leg strengthening exercises.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »IF you're willing to put in the work, you'll get the results without joining a gym or lifting a single barbell.
If you have any questions, review the physiques of the Male gymnast Olympians.
It's certainly easier with a bar, but the benefits of bodyweight are far greater.
I don't think male gymnasts and weight training are mutually exclusive, but they are also among the elites genetically, workout hours a day, and basically cap out at around 24-28 so probably not a great comparison but I see your point, but you can't compare a gymnast to a bodybuilder either, even a truly natural one for muscle built. The gymnast is only worried about strength to weight while the bodybuilder is only worried about hypertrophy. You can do some great things with bodyweight exercises and I've seen a guy get some decent results in his 50s, but not comparable to a weight workout and he wasn't just doing pushups etc. He was working out at the local school playground on the climbers etc.
I do both bodyweight and weight lifting and I think they are a great compliment to one another. The way I see it is that weights are for getting better at moving objects while bodyweight is for getting better at moving yourself.2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Pushups, pullups, OA/OL variants. Inverted and elevated pushup variants, Ring rows.
See Convict conditioning or Pavel's Naked Warrior or You Are your own Gym or anything from Kavadlo brothers. OR for a change of pace, gymnastic based circuits.
I would add in kettlebells.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Pushups, pullups, OA/OL variants. Inverted and elevated pushup variants, Ring rows.
See Convict conditioning or Pavel's Naked Warrior or You Are your own Gym or anything from Kavadlo brothers. OR for a change of pace, gymnastic based circuits.
I would add in kettlebells.
So would I, but since he doesn't have any I didn't mention them.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Pushups, pullups, OA/OL variants. Inverted and elevated pushup variants, Ring rows.
See Convict conditioning or Pavel's Naked Warrior or You Are your own Gym or anything from Kavadlo brothers. OR for a change of pace, gymnastic based circuits.
I would add in kettlebells.
So would I, but since he doesn't have any I didn't mention them.
True, but he mentioned DB's so I figured he could swap.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »IF you're willing to put in the work, you'll get the results without joining a gym or lifting a single barbell.
If you have any questions, review the physiques of the Male gymnast Olympians.
It's certainly easier with a bar, but the benefits of bodyweight are far greater.
I don't think male gymnasts and weight training are mutually exclusive, but they are also among the elites genetically, workout hours a day, and basically cap out at around 24-28 so probably not a great comparison but I see your point, but you can't compare a gymnast to a bodybuilder either, even a truly natural one for muscle built. The gymnast is only worried about strength to weight while the bodybuilder is only worried about hypertrophy. You can do some great things with bodyweight exercises and I've seen a guy get some decent results in his 50s, but not comparable to a weight workout and he wasn't just doing pushups etc. He was working out at the local school playground on the climbers etc.
I do both bodyweight and weight lifting and I think they are a great compliment to one another. The way I see it is that weights are for getting better at moving objects while bodyweight is for getting better at moving yourself.
The reality is that unless you're starting out as a petite man, with a pure BW program, you're going to run out of strength capacity and patience long before you run out of progression possibilities.
That's 250 lbs held overhead there to the left.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »IF you're willing to put in the work, you'll get the results without joining a gym or lifting a single barbell.
If you have any questions, review the physiques of the Male gymnast Olympians.
It's certainly easier with a bar, but the benefits of bodyweight are far greater.
I don't think male gymnasts and weight training are mutually exclusive, but they are also among the elites genetically, workout hours a day, and basically cap out at around 24-28 so probably not a great comparison but I see your point, but you can't compare a gymnast to a bodybuilder either, even a truly natural one for muscle built. The gymnast is only worried about strength to weight while the bodybuilder is only worried about hypertrophy. You can do some great things with bodyweight exercises and I've seen a guy get some decent results in his 50s, but not comparable to a weight workout and he wasn't just doing pushups etc. He was working out at the local school playground on the climbers etc.
I do both bodyweight and weight lifting and I think they are a great compliment to one another. The way I see it is that weights are for getting better at moving objects while bodyweight is for getting better at moving yourself.
The reality is that unless you're starting out as a petite man, with a pure BW program, you're going to run out of strength capacity and patience long before you run out of progression possibilities.
That's 250 lbs held overhead there to the left.
Yes, it is very impressive although the leverages are different than putting a 250 pound barbell overhead. They aren't the same and I've progressed through the various BW leverage exercises in the past so am familiar with the time and effort it takes. I could do 165 one handed stand but barely OHP 135. Being 250 and doing BW is extremely hard I imagine since I found that going from 150 - 165 very challenging to keep up with many of the exercises. I don't even try human flag anymore lol.
I definitely agree you won't hit your progression possibilities but it also depends on your goals too. If you are in it for building a lot of muscle then BW isn't really the best, the gymnasts you mention may look impressive but they are, in fact, under 150lbs for the most part and not particularly big in the overall scheme of things. Next to a bodybuilder of similar height they would disappear. Also, you will never tap your full strength in the weight room either, we just don't have enough time to really hit our potential strength either way we try to obtain it.
My intent was not really debating the weight vs BW thing because I really enjoy both and I tend to look at performance goals over tools and go from there. To me it's pointless argument since they aren't mutually exclusive although I see a lot of people who seem to believe that. What is important is determining your goals, your time frames and then selecting the tools that fit.3 -
Just pushups, pullups and dips (in addition to BPs and OHPs) were all I needed to develop muscularity and strength in my chest, back, shoulders and arms.
If you can afford it, you can use a weighted vest to increase resistance so that you don''t have to do a ridiculous # of reps.
A weighted belt w/chain to hold plates will work for pullups and dips but not pushups The weighted belt is also very cumbersome to use.
This is all you really need, if you can't afford or fit a rack and bench w/a barbell & plates in your home or don't have access to such equipment at a gym.0 -
Just pushups, pullups and dips (in addition to BPs and OHPs) were all I needed to develop muscularity and strength in my chest, back, shoulders and arms.
If you can afford it, you can use a weighted vest to increase resistance so that you don''t have to do a ridiculous # of reps.
A weighted belt w/chain to hold plates will work for pullups and dips but not pushups The weighted belt is also very cumbersome to use.
This is all you really need, if you can't afford or fit a rack and bench w/a barbell & plates in your home or don't have access to such equipment at a gym.
A Small ruck can be used to add resistance to pushups if desired. NO need to buy " weight pouches" Water bottles and bags of flour/sugar work just fine.2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Just pushups, pullups and dips (in addition to BPs and OHPs) were all I needed to develop muscularity and strength in my chest, back, shoulders and arms.
If you can afford it, you can use a weighted vest to increase resistance so that you don''t have to do a ridiculous # of reps.
A weighted belt w/chain to hold plates will work for pullups and dips but not pushups The weighted belt is also very cumbersome to use.
This is all you really need, if you can't afford or fit a rack and bench w/a barbell & plates in your home or don't have access to such equipment at a gym.
A Small ruck can be used to add resistance to pushups if desired. NO need to buy " weight pouches" Water bottles and bags of flour/sugar work just fine.
And if you have kids or a SO that works too.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Just pushups, pullups and dips (in addition to BPs and OHPs) were all I needed to develop muscularity and strength in my chest, back, shoulders and arms.
If you can afford it, you can use a weighted vest to increase resistance so that you don''t have to do a ridiculous # of reps.
A weighted belt w/chain to hold plates will work for pullups and dips but not pushups The weighted belt is also very cumbersome to use.
This is all you really need, if you can't afford or fit a rack and bench w/a barbell & plates in your home or don't have access to such equipment at a gym.
A Small ruck can be used to add resistance to pushups if desired. NO need to buy " weight pouches" Water bottles and bags of flour/sugar work just fine.
And if you have kids or a SO that works too.
True.
IF using SO or larger kids. Make sure they are either distributed near your shoulders, or are laying on your back so as to reduce chance of lower back injury. Smaller children are less likely to raise risk of injury.
Alternately you can use your SO or larger child for reduced load presses by doing a floor press with them holding a broomstick or fighting staff while you lay on your back. This is also a fun coop drill.
Lay on your back with the staff held at arms length with hands about shoulder width. Your partner should be "upside down to you and place their hands and shoulder width and set up as for a chair or wall pushup. You can either alternate pressing or press simultaneously. IF pressing simultaneously, workload for the down partner will stay relatively static or increase slightly while for the up partner it will decrease. Although it increases the stability load.1 -
bgowder , don't get discourage I am 60 yo and more muscular than the average man. I have worked out all my life. For the most effective and efficient program to gain strength and size I recommend to search for 5*5 workout and do the chest and shoulders routine. https://stronglifts.com/5x5/
Good luck!
FitRican
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bgowder , don't get discourage I am 60 yo and more muscular than the average man. I have worked out all my life. For the most effective and efficient program to gain strength and size I recommend to search for 5*5 workout and do the chest and shoulders routine. https://stronglifts.com/5x5/
Good luck!
FitRican
This is definitely something that younger, and older, people need to realize. The difference in muscle mass between a 21yo and 72yo is actually very comparable IF the older person is active. In fact, from the research I've heard of the 72yo can maintain about 90% or more of muscle mass, which is amazing. However, the difference between an active 72yo and inactive 72yo is night and day, with the inactive person often having less than 60% of the muscle mass of the active person.
Keep up the good work and stay strong!2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »Just pushups, pullups and dips (in addition to BPs and OHPs) were all I needed to develop muscularity and strength in my chest, back, shoulders and arms.
If you can afford it, you can use a weighted vest to increase resistance so that you don''t have to do a ridiculous # of reps.
A weighted belt w/chain to hold plates will work for pullups and dips but not pushups The weighted belt is also very cumbersome to use.
This is all you really need, if you can't afford or fit a rack and bench w/a barbell & plates in your home or don't have access to such equipment at a gym.
A Small ruck can be used to add resistance to pushups if desired. NO need to buy " weight pouches" Water bottles and bags of flour/sugar work just fine.
This is true but it is less than ideal and I did preface my suggestion with:
"If you can afford it..."0 -
Thanks for all the posts. I can't get this forum to send me a notification when someone replies.
Anyway, I ended up meeting with a personal trainer at LA Fitness yesterday (free voucher). My body fat is 25% and I weigh 193 at 5'11". The trainer suggested three sessions a week M (upper body), W (core) and F (legs) to focus on replacing 10 pounds of fat with 10 pounds of muscle. I was wondering if that was actually enough with working an area only one time per week.
He mentioned not being able to achieve my goals working out at home without weights, which includes building up chest, tightening up stomach, etc. My arms, legs, etc. all respond positively and quickly to strength conditioning, but my chest has always been that one area that I've always wanted to improve.
I really don't want to fork out the money for training and don't see me making the drive to LA Fitness three times per week, so I'd be willing to buy kettlebells or whatever, if that would help me stay home for workouts.0 -
DanSanthomes wrote: »Try darebee - they have some great 30+ Day programs using bodyweight only.
I'm still researching programs, but checked out Darebee and might try their "30 Days of Gravity" program, which accents chest and triceps. Thanks for the heads up.0 -
Thanks for all the posts. I can't get this forum to send me a notification when someone replies.
Anyway, I ended up meeting with a personal trainer at LA Fitness yesterday (free voucher). My body fat is 25% and I weigh 193 at 5'11". The trainer suggested three sessions a week M (upper body), W (core) and F (legs) to focus on replacing 10 pounds of fat with 10 pounds of muscle. I was wondering if that was actually enough with working an area only one time per week.
He mentioned not being able to achieve my goals working out at home without weights, which includes building up chest, tightening up stomach, etc. My arms, legs, etc. all respond positively and quickly to strength conditioning, but my chest has always been that one area that I've always wanted to improve.
I really don't want to fork out the money for training and don't see me making the drive to LA Fitness three times per week, so I'd be willing to buy kettlebells or whatever, if that would help me stay home for workouts.
Working bodyparts one day a week on a split such as that is commonly referred to in the vernacular as a "bro split". It's far less than optimal for a beginning lifter. You'd be much better served by doing a full-body routine three times per week at this point, maybe choose a routine from the list in this thread.
Not only that, but you don't "replace" fat with muscle - you lose fat and build muscle, and putting on 10 pounds of muscle is a fairly significant task that isn't going to happen quickly. If your trainer is giving you false hope that it's going to happen within a span of weeks, he's peeing down your leg and telling you it's raining.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of working out at home unless you have the room (and finances) to put together a decently equipped gym. I tried it a few years ago with some miscellaneous equipment and a set of adjustable dumbbells (5-52.5 lbs.) and the results were pretty craptacular.
You don't necessarily need a trainer, but it would be best to start with a professionally designed routine (such as those in the thread I linked above) so you're not wasting your time in the gym doing a bunch of what amounts to nothing.
[ETA:] As a beginner, a good bodyweight program could take you quite a ways toward your goals, but again I'd highly recommend using a professionally designed program rather than trying to roll your own.2 -
Thanks for all the posts. I can't get this forum to send me a notification when someone replies.
Anyway, I ended up meeting with a personal trainer at LA Fitness yesterday (free voucher). My body fat is 25% and I weigh 193 at 5'11". The trainer suggested three sessions a week M (upper body), W (core) and F (legs) to focus on replacing 10 pounds of fat with 10 pounds of muscle. I was wondering if that was actually enough with working an area only one time per week.
He mentioned not being able to achieve my goals working out at home without weights, which includes building up chest, tightening up stomach, etc. My arms, legs, etc. all respond positively and quickly to strength conditioning, but my chest has always been that one area that I've always wanted to improve.
I really don't want to fork out the money for training and don't see me making the drive to LA Fitness three times per week, so I'd be willing to buy kettlebells or whatever, if that would help me stay home for workouts.
Working bodyparts one day a week on a split such as that is commonly referred to in the vernacular as a "bro split". It's far less than optimal for a beginning lifter. You'd be much better served by doing a full-body routine three times per week at this point, maybe choose a routine from the list in this thread.
Not only that, but you don't "replace" fat with muscle - you lose fat and build muscle, and putting on 10 pounds of muscle is a fairly significant task that isn't going to happen quickly. If your trainer is giving you false hope that it's going to happen within a span of weeks, he's peeing down your leg and telling you it's raining.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of working out at home unless you have the room (and finances) to put together a decently equipped gym. I tried it a few years ago with some miscellaneous equipment and a set of adjustable dumbbells (5-52.5 lbs.) and the results were pretty craptacular.
You don't necessarily need a trainer, but it would be best to start with a professionally designed routine (such as those in the thread I linked above) so you're not wasting your time in the gym doing a bunch of what amounts to nothing.
[ETA:] As a beginner, a good bodyweight program could take you quite a ways toward your goals, but again I'd highly recommend using a professionally designed program rather than trying to roll your own.
Thanks for the insightful post. Yes, I was wondering if that three-day workout plan was too infrequent for each (upper body, legs and core). I'll check out that link and see if I can find something that's right for me and will help me increase chest size (as well as everything else, but chest has the most catching up to do) and trim down my waist.0 -
Thanks for all the posts. I can't get this forum to send me a notification when someone replies.
Anyway, I ended up meeting with a personal trainer at LA Fitness yesterday (free voucher). My body fat is 25% and I weigh 193 at 5'11". The trainer suggested three sessions a week M (upper body), W (core) and F (legs) to focus on replacing 10 pounds of fat with 10 pounds of muscle. I was wondering if that was actually enough with working an area only one time per week.
He mentioned not being able to achieve my goals working out at home without weights, which includes building up chest, tightening up stomach, etc. My arms, legs, etc. all respond positively and quickly to strength conditioning, but my chest has always been that one area that I've always wanted to improve.
I really don't want to fork out the money for training and don't see me making the drive to LA Fitness three times per week, so I'd be willing to buy kettlebells or whatever, if that would help me stay home for workouts.
Working bodyparts one day a week on a split such as that is commonly referred to in the vernacular as a "bro split". It's far less than optimal for a beginning lifter. You'd be much better served by doing a full-body routine three times per week at this point, maybe choose a routine from the list in this thread.
Not only that, but you don't "replace" fat with muscle - you lose fat and build muscle, and putting on 10 pounds of muscle is a fairly significant task that isn't going to happen quickly. If your trainer is giving you false hope that it's going to happen within a span of weeks, he's peeing down your leg and telling you it's raining.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of working out at home unless you have the room (and finances) to put together a decently equipped gym. I tried it a few years ago with some miscellaneous equipment and a set of adjustable dumbbells (5-52.5 lbs.) and the results were pretty craptacular.
You don't necessarily need a trainer, but it would be best to start with a professionally designed routine (such as those in the thread I linked above) so you're not wasting your time in the gym doing a bunch of what amounts to nothing.
[ETA:] As a beginner, a good bodyweight program could take you quite a ways toward your goals, but again I'd highly recommend using a professionally designed program rather than trying to roll your own.
The thing is, a good program is the same regardless of who is presenting it.
SS, SL5x5, PTTP, etc Full body--deadlifts, squats, Bench, OHP, Row, Pullup 2-5 days per week. 3-5 reps, 3-5 sets,
Convict Conditioning, Naked Warrior, YaYoG, Pushups, pullups, rows, Pistol Squats.
The thing that makes quality programming worth using is the details that go behind it.2 -
Thanks for all the posts. I can't get this forum to send me a notification when someone replies.
Anyway, I ended up meeting with a personal trainer at LA Fitness yesterday (free voucher). My body fat is 25% and I weigh 193 at 5'11". The trainer suggested three sessions a week M (upper body), W (core) and F (legs) to focus on replacing 10 pounds of fat with 10 pounds of muscle. I was wondering if that was actually enough with working an area only one time per week.
He mentioned not being able to achieve my goals working out at home without weights, which includes building up chest, tightening up stomach, etc. My arms, legs, etc. all respond positively and quickly to strength conditioning, but my chest has always been that one area that I've always wanted to improve.
I really don't want to fork out the money for training and don't see me making the drive to LA Fitness three times per week, so I'd be willing to buy kettlebells or whatever, if that would help me stay home for workouts.
Working bodyparts one day a week on a split such as that is commonly referred to in the vernacular as a "bro split". It's far less than optimal for a beginning lifter. You'd be much better served by doing a full-body routine three times per week at this point, maybe choose a routine from the list in this thread.
Not only that, but you don't "replace" fat with muscle - you lose fat and build muscle, and putting on 10 pounds of muscle is a fairly significant task that isn't going to happen quickly. If your trainer is giving you false hope that it's going to happen within a span of weeks, he's peeing down your leg and telling you it's raining.
Personally, I'm not a big fan of working out at home unless you have the room (and finances) to put together a decently equipped gym. I tried it a few years ago with some miscellaneous equipment and a set of adjustable dumbbells (5-52.5 lbs.) and the results were pretty craptacular.
You don't necessarily need a trainer, but it would be best to start with a professionally designed routine (such as those in the thread I linked above) so you're not wasting your time in the gym doing a bunch of what amounts to nothing.
[ETA:] As a beginner, a good bodyweight program could take you quite a ways toward your goals, but again I'd highly recommend using a professionally designed program rather than trying to roll your own.
Thanks for the insightful post. Yes, I was wondering if that three-day workout plan was too infrequent for each (upper body, legs and core). I'll check out that link and see if I can find something that's right for me and will help me increase chest size (as well as everything else, but chest has the most catching up to do) and trim down my waist.
A 3-day full body might actually be more volume than a bro-split for most of the body. You are basically hitting everything 3 times a week. @AnvilHead is pointing you in the right direction.
For scientific evidence read work by Schoenfeld.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28834797
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20847704
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24714538
The last one shows that frequency is almost as important as total volume. With a 3-day full body novice program you would be golden, if you follow the actual program.
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I ended up joining LA Fitness today and will kick things off tonight. I still am not sure what route to go for my strength conditioning, but am leaning towards full body workouts Monday, Wednesday and Friday.1
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I'm a mostly healthy 50YO male looking to increase upper body muscles, primarily chest and arms. Any recommendations with no weights, except for a pair of 20-pound dumbbells? Is SWORKIT a good option? Since I've been jogging for the past five years, my legs are already in decent shape, so I think I'll spend two-thirds of my effort getting my upper body to catch up. Thanks.[/quote
You could buy a belt with a chain link and attach dumbells to the belt for weighted pull ups and weighted dips. Get one of those pull up bars that have a different variety of grip positions. If you had plates as opposed to dumbells you could put those on your back while you do push ups. That can be a start I guess, but I'd stil recommend finding a gym or getting a weight room set up at home. You can also make weights like using bags with items in them like books, I work in a prison and inmates seem to get good work outs with actual weights since they took them away. They get pretty creative0 -
Thanks for all the good advice. Now that I'm with LA Fitness, I started doing the following every three days for chest:
Incline Press Startrac
Nitro Vertical Chest
Freemotion Chest
Pectoral Fly
Nautilus Lat Pulldown
Hammer Strength ISO Lateral Incline Press
So I'm thinking the plan is to do chest one day, then legs another day, core on the third day, etc. I need to nail down a workout plan and will search the Community for some advice, since this discussion is titled "with body weight" (no weights).
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