Thinking of going plant based (what the health) sacred me
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stephanieclayton65
Posts: 12 Member
Any one done this or have any recipes ?
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I wouldn't go plant-based because I was scared by a movie.
That said, if you are interested in incorporating some more plant-based meals into your life, I've found Pinterest to be a great source for plant-based recipes (most of them can be found by searching "vegan").
I have been vegan for over ten years.9 -
Hi!
I just skimmed both Eat to Live and The End of Dieting by Joel Fuhrman MD. Both books have a lot of good research on veganism and include recipes. I utilize YouTube a lot for recipes. VeganRicha.com, ohsheglows.com, Mary's test kitchen, keepinitkind.com have great recipes!
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Oh and I checked them out at my local library! You can check out vegan cookbooks there as well! And I own Dining in the Raw by Rita Romano!3
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stephanieclayton65 wrote: »Any one done this or have any recipes ?
You'd probably be better off making a decision to go plant-based based on some actual science-related info, not a scaremongering movie.21 -
carlyraeho11as wrote: »Hi!
I just skimmed both Eat to Live and The End of Dieting by Joel Fuhrman MD. Both books have a lot of good research on veganism and include recipes. I utilize YouTube a lot for recipes. VeganRicha.com, ohsheglows.com, Mary's test kitchen, keepinitkind.com have great recipes!
Fuhrman's plan includes animal products (https://www.drfuhrman.com/recipes/categories/2/main-dishes-non-vegan). He is promoting what he calls "Nutritarianism," it's not veganism. While it eliminates a lot of animal products from the diet, it can include animal products -- even meat. And he layers in additional restrictions that have nothing to do with veganism and may even make it harder for vegans to meet their nutritional needs.
I would not use him or his work as a resource on veganism.13 -
I skimmed the books so I noticed the newer book was not strict vegan but the first I believe was. A vegan YouTube channel actually referred me to the books. And yes, he says not to cook with oil but even Colin Campbell says plant oils are what make some vegans gain weight or have a hard time losing weight.
The China Study has great information but you can watch Forks Over Knives instead. Nutritionfacts.org has good info.14 -
OMG, no.
Forks Over Knives, What the Health, Nutritionfacts, and China Study - and all associated with those - should be ignored. They literally are some of the biggest piles of horse manure ever created.19 -
carlyraeho11as wrote: »I skimmed the books so I noticed the newer book was not strict vegan but the first I believe was. A vegan YouTube channel actually referred me to the books. And yes, he says not to cook with oil but even Colin Campbell says plant oils are what make some vegans gain weight or have a hard time losing weight.
The China Study has great information but you can watch Forks Over Knives instead. Nutritionfacts.org has good info.
The first book may be plant-based, but I don't think Fuhrman ever takes a position against animal exploitation (which is at the heart of veganism). That's why I don't consider Fuhrman to be an authority on vegan nutrition -- he's doing something else completely.
If Colin Campbell (also not a vegan) says that plant oil is what makes vegans gain weight, that's yet another reason to be skeptical about his theories. Plant oil, like any food, can only lead to weight gain if someone is consuming more energy than they're using. If someone is consuming plant oil in the context of a diet where they are eating the number of calories they need, they will not gain weight. You can consume plant oil (or any type of fat) and still successfully lose weight when you're in a calorie deficit.
I'm not saying that non-vegans can't have anything useful to contribute to conversations about vegan nutrition (science is science, the truth doesn't care whether or not someone is vegan), but I find that many of these non-vegans promoting plant-based diets are prone to pushing inaccurate information and most of them are promoting additional restrictions.
The truth is that plant oil (or other sources of fat) can be perfectly compatible with maintaining a healthy weight and having good overall health. And too many additional restrictions can make it harder for someone to maintain veganism or even meet their nutritional needs. You might want to check out some evidence-based vegan nutritional resources. I like veganhealth.org . . . or, if you're into books, Vegan for Life by Jack Norris and Virginia Messina (both actual vegans, both RDs) is a fantastic resource.10 -
Here's a thread on this topic: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10632437/what-should-we-really-be-eating-this-is-not-for-the-faint-hearted#latest
What I said in my first post therein:
What the Health (and the issues with it) is pretty widely known by now.... I would strongly recommend taking any "documentary" of that sort with a large grain of salt.
In another of the threads about it, I linked this review, which I recommend (it is pretty similar to my reaction).
https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/
Read the whole thing, but some selections:
"As a vegan health professional, I am sometimes mortified to be associated with the junk science that permeates our community. And as an animal rights activist, I’m disheartened by advocacy efforts that can make us look scientifically illiterate, dishonest, and occasionally like a cult of conspiracy theorists....
The duo behind the film are Kip Andersen and Keegan Kuhn, who are animal rights activists....
I wish What the Health had stuck to these kinds of observations and supported them with an informed discussion of the evidence. Instead, it cherry-picked the research, misinterpreted and over-stated the data, highlighted dubious stories of miraculous healing, and focused on faulty observations about nutrition science. The themes of What the Health are that:
a vegan diet is the answer to preventing and treating all chronic disease
meat, dairy and eggs (and fat) are the cause of all these diseases
and non-profit organizations don’t want you to know this because they are funded by Big Food.
Most of the misinformation in the film is due simply to a poor understanding of nutrition science and research. But some moments struck me as overtly dishonest. While he doesn’t directly say it, filmmaker Kip Andersen gives the impression that he is exploring a vegan diet for the first time. He says “Like so many people, I was looking for an excuse not to change my diet.” I found it hard to believe that he was not a vegan while making this film. And the other half of the filmmaking duo, Keegan Kuhn, has stated that he’s been a vegan for decades. So this all felt pretty disingenuous.
The film also employs an obvious double standard. It points to conflicts of interest among national non-profit organizations without acknowledging that most of the doctors interviewed in the film also have conflicts of interest....
When Kip approaches non-profit health organizations for interviews, he finds that no one wants to talk with him. The first people answering the phone can’t respond to his questions about diet and health. I’m not sure why he finds this surprising. They are administrative assistants, not health professionals.
But executives at most of these organizations wouldn’t grant him an interview, either. This was understood to be evasiveness in response to Kip’s effort to have a meaningful discussion about diet and health. And maybe even some kind of conspiracy. “Why would an American Cancer Society rep not want to talk about this?” he wonders.
Well, I can tell him why. These busy professionals don’t have the time or patience to engage in a debate about nutrition with someone who doesn’t understand how extensive, complex, conflicting, and confusing the research is. There have been many times when I’ve not responded to people who want to wave a copy of The China Study in my face as they challenge my statements on oil or protein or vitamin B12. I can sense pretty quickly when a discussion will only waste my time, and when an inquisitor is hostile to fairly considering other points of view. I’m guessing that the director of the American Cancer Society recognizes this, too.
Furthermore, when journalists schedule interviews to discuss nutrition research, they typically provide information about which studies they want to discuss ahead of time. That’s why I sympathized with the Chief Medical Officer of the American Diabetes Association who didn’t want to debate diet research. It’s why I understood why no one from the Susan G. Komen organization wanted to defend the fact that there is no warning about dairy and breast cancer on their website.
The folks at Susan G Komen are not ignorant about the relationship of dairy foods to breast cancer. Their website notes that high-fat, but not low-fat dairy foods may increase risk and that the research is conflicting. The resources listed on the What the Health website say pretty much the same thing. For example, they cite a paper that says this: “On the whole, evidence for an increase in risk for breast cancer through consumption of cow’s milk and dairy products is blurry and partially contradictory and equivocal.”
This is also the conclusion of the report from the American Institute for Cancer Research (AICR) a leading authority on diet and cancer (and a group that promotes a plant-based diet). In their review of all of the research on the subject, they were unable to conclude that dairy foods raise risk for breast cancer. They did say that it is “probable” (but not “convincing”) that dairy raises prostate cancer risk but that dairy consumption probably offers protection against colon cancer. That’s where the science stands right now, and it can’t be negated by one study accompanied by interviews with people who are not experts on the current state of diet and cancer research.
The filmmakers also run into trouble when they try to decipher individual studies. For example, they mistakenly assert that the World Health Organization’s analysis of processed meat and cancer risk is based on 800 studies. But this was a meta-analysis which means it began by identifying potentially relevant studies through a keyword search. In this case, it found 800 of them. But only seven of the studies actually qualified for and were included in the meta-analysis. So their conclusions are based on seven studies, not 800 – a big difference, and a big blunder by the filmmakers....
So What the Health leaves us with a faulty perspective on nutrition research that downplays the importance of both protein and calcium for bone health. This denies vegans and potential vegans the kind of information they need to actually stay healthy....
Kip himself says that after he changed his diet, “within a few days I could feel my blood running through my veins with a new vitality.” It immediately brought to mind Lierre Keith, ex-vegan and author of The Vegetarian Myth. She says this when she eats a bite of tuna fish after many years of veganism: “I could feel every cell in my body—literally every cell—pulsing. And finally, finally being fed.”
I’m quite sure that you can’t feel every single one of your cells pulsing and I don’t believe you can feel your blood running through your veins, either. These are the meaningless testimonials that people offer about every diet under the sun. (Can we not even hold ourselves to a higher standard than the preposterous claims of ex-vegans?)
There is so much more to deplore about this film. The fear-mongering about GMOs and about diet and autism. The body shaming. And of course, the outdated (by about 40 years) insistence that dietary fat is bad....
...the vegan movement’s credibility is undermined when we make claims that are so easily refuted. If we get caught lying or exaggerating about the health aspects of veganism, why should anyone believe us when we try to tell them about the treatment of animals on farms, in zoos, and in research labs?"12 -
And a bit more.
On the health rationale for 100% plant based put forth by What the Health:
IMO, WFPB diets, done properly (which is a bit more challenging than doing a healthful WF-based omnivore diet properly) are extremely healthy. But so are other diet options. The claim that eating any meat or animal products is going to kill you faster is really disingenuous.
On the factory farming stuff (and the vegan ethical debate), I'm bothered by a lot of factory farming practices, and have tried to opt out of the animal agriculture aspects of it (getting meat/eggs and most dairy from local farms). I'm currently thinking through my own views on the ethics of meat in general and respect those who do this, whatever conclusion they come to, but I think this is a separate matter from the health bit, and I don't think people should allow their feelings about the ethics to lead to a cherry-picking or twisting of the evidence re health, and I see a lot of vegan advocates doing this (and many, like the woman I cited in my other post) being much more serious and respectful of the real evidence.
One option, again, which may or may not be satisfying to you and may lead to further reflection, is being careful about sourcing your meat/eggs/dairy, and perhaps even meeting and talking to the people who work at the farms from which you buy.
As for reasonable health advice, I think the Harvard site is pretty good (I think it's silly on potatoes, though) (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/). I also like this discussion from David Katz: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-compared-every-diet-and-the-winner-is-real-food/284595/
I think Marion Nestle is a good source: https://www.foodpolitics.com/about/ (she has a book that goes into decisions about diet).
I think from a vegan perspective Virginia Messina and Jack Norris are respectable and helpful and give unbiased advice.3 -
I'll add that I'm totally supportive of anyone going plant based and eat plant based a lot and respect the ethical decision to do so. The above was about the idea of going plant-based because of being "scared" by What the Health.2
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lemurcat12 wrote: »And a bit more.
On the health rationale for 100% plant based put forth by What the Health:
IMO, WFPB diets, done properly (which is a bit more challenging than doing a healthful WF-based omnivore diet properly) are extremely healthy. But so are other diet options. The claim that eating any meat or animal products is going to kill you faster is really disingenuous.
On the factory farming stuff (and the vegan ethical debate), I'm bothered by a lot of factory farming practices, and have tried to opt out of the animal agriculture aspects of it (getting meat/eggs and most dairy from local farms). I'm currently thinking through my own views on the ethics of meat in general and respect those who do this, whatever conclusion they come to, but I think this is a separate matter from the health bit, and I don't think people should allow their feelings about the ethics to lead to a cherry-picking or twisting of the evidence re health, and I see a lot of vegan advocates doing this (and many, like the woman I cited in my other post) being much more serious and respectful of the real evidence.
One option, again, which may or may not be satisfying to you and may lead to further reflection, is being careful about sourcing your meat/eggs/dairy, and perhaps even meeting and talking to the people who work at the farms from which you buy.
As for reasonable health advice, I think the Harvard site is pretty good (I think it's silly on potatoes, though) (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/). I also like this discussion from David Katz: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/science-compared-every-diet-and-the-winner-is-real-food/284595/
I think Marion Nestle is a good source: https://www.foodpolitics.com/about/ (she has a book that goes into decisions about diet).
I think from a vegan perspective Virginia Messina and Jack Norris are respectable and helpful and give unbiased advice.
I think Marion Nestle is a great resource for people who want to think more about their food choices, the frequency with which we eat certain foods, and how food policy decisions are made. Everything I have read by her has been really level-headed and based on a solid foundation.1 -
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Thanks, Jane. I'll check out those resources.
I have definitely read books from other non-vegan doctors about the benefits of healthy fats (Eat Fat get Thin by Dr Mark Hyman) but I personally already consume a lot of avocado, nuts, seeds and coconut so I found the tip to add less oil to my cooking insightful.
And yes, the animals are the most important part. There are films like Food Inc, Life and Death on a Factory Farm, etc that expose how these poor animals are treated. And PETA's feed shows some excruciating to watch footage.8 -
I wouldn't hold PETA up as such a grand champion of animal rights (beyond the shock value of the footage they display)....
https://www.petakillsanimals.com/proof-peta-kills/
As for going vegan, if that is the ethical stance that you wish to make - go for it and more power to you!!5 -
I wouldn't hold PETA up as such a grand champion of animal rights (beyond the shock value of the footage they display)....
https://www.petakillsanimals.com/proof-peta-kills/
As for going vegan, if that is the ethical stance that you wish to make - go for it and more power to you!!
I think it's possible to acknowledge that PETA's feed shows some things that are difficult (at least for some) to watch without holding them up as a "grand champion of animal rights."
I don't know the feed that is being referred to and I'm no fan of PETA, but there certainly are things happening to animals that I would prefer not to participate in.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I wouldn't hold PETA up as such a grand champion of animal rights (beyond the shock value of the footage they display)....
https://www.petakillsanimals.com/proof-peta-kills/
As for going vegan, if that is the ethical stance that you wish to make - go for it and more power to you!!
I think it's possible to acknowledge that PETA's feed shows some things that are difficult (at least for some) to watch without holding them up as a "grand champion of animal rights."
I don't know the feed that is being referred to and I'm no fan of PETA, but there certainly are things happening to animals that I would prefer not to participate in.
And I agree with you on this ^, which is why, much like lemur, I try to local source as much as I can so that I know how the animals are treated and cared for.4 -
carlyraeho11as wrote: »Thanks, Jane. I'll check out those resources.
I have definitely read books from other non-vegan doctors about the benefits of healthy fats (Eat Fat get Thin by Dr Mark Hyman) but I personally already consume a lot of avocado, nuts, seeds and coconut so I found the tip to add less oil to my cooking insightful.
And yes, the animals are the most important part. There are films like Food Inc, Life and Death on a Factory Farm, etc that expose how these poor animals are treated. And PETA's feed shows some excruciating to watch footage.
Well, yeah. If someone is already consuming a lot of fat, reducing consumption of plant oils may be a good way to ensure that one is meeting overall calorie goals and getting enough of the other nutrients that one needs. This doesn't mean that plant oils are, in and of themselves bad, need to be avoided by others (who may not be consuming as much avocado, nuts/seeds, and coconut), or that they will somehow create weight gain in someone who is meeting their calorie goals.
But this can be said for a lot of foods. If I'm eating a lot of oats, I may choose to eat less bread. If I'm eating a lot of sweet potatoes, I may choose to eat fewer apples. This doesn't mean that bread or apples are bad foods or that other people need to avoid them. It means that people who are meeting their nutritional needs and hitting calorie goals are always making decisions like this, it's part of what a healthy diet looks like.4 -
I am very open to learning from people who have been vegan longer than myself, that's why I started using this "Community" feature. If someone has a wealth of knowledge, why not share it in a loving way? Anyone who would like to grow a compassionate, plant-based community here please feel free to add me.
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carlyraeho11as wrote: »I was just trying to be helpful to the original poster. I'm disheartened by the somewhat condescending tone I've gotten in this thread. We have shared outlooks and goals, so let's be more friendly when sharing knowledge. I am very open to learning from people who have been vegan longer than myself, that's why I started using this "Community" feature. If someone has a wealth of knowledge, why not share it in a loving way?
I am not plant-based just to lose weight. I have never been overweight by any standards. Following Dr Mark Hyman's advice in the Blood Sugar Solution kept me at an ideal weight. But I chose to go vegan for ethical reasons and find myself gaining rather than losing weight so I've been seeking more info lately.
Anyone who would like to grow a compassionate, plant-based community here please feel free to add me.
I haven't seen anyone be condescending. Questioning the validity of the sources you cite and criticizing the authors of books you've read isn't the same as criticizing you as a person; it's giving you another viewpoint and correcting false or misleading information.14
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