protein will preserve muscles - without workout?

yirara

I read here so often that just eating enough protein will preserve muscles, also in the absence of working out. How does that work, if this really is a thing? Protein, like any other macro gets converted to energy, and energy is not red, blue or yellow but just energy. Looking for explanations, maybe also a comparative study.

middlehaitch

In for the research. h.

LivingtheLeanDream

I'm pretty sure I have heard that enough protein will preserve muscle but also in for the replies too.

sijomial

How about this study?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2289832/

"A whey-protein supplement increases fat loss and spares lean muscle in obese subjects"

Protein provides far more than just energy, that's not it's primary role as I'm sure you know.

yirara

sijomial wrote: »

How about this study?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2289832/

"A whey-protein supplement increases fat loss and spares lean muscle in obese subjects"

Protein provides far more than just energy, that's not it's primary role as I'm sure you know.

Interesting. There are some questions though: a further control group was used, yet those results not published. And the company marketing this product was responsible for this study. I'll read it in more detail tonight.

Wiseandcurious

In for the information.

I had always just assumed that the body needs a certain amount of protein for functions more vital than maintaining muscle, so if it doesnt get it it would cani alize muscle to supply these other functions?

Just googled quickly and this is from the Wikipedia entry for protein:

"Proteins are also used in membranes, such as glycoproteins. When broken down into amino acids, they are used as precursors to nucleic acid, co-enzymes, hormones, immune response, cellular repair, and other molecules essential for life. Additionally, protein is needed to form blood cells.[1][2]"

I can easily see the body sacrificing some muscle to supply all of that and keep alive.

Is there more to it? Looking forward to learning more.

ETA: I had also asdumed that if you never paid attention to macro ratios, in a strong deficit, you would end up with less protein than your body needed to function. So I guess a smaller deficit requires less attention to protein because the protein deficit itself would be smaller...?

As you can see lots of naive approach assumptions here - I realise I took a lot for granted in this topic Would love to read more if anyone can provide sources and/or explain what actually happens.

Erfw7471

yirara wrote: »

sijomial wrote: »

How about this study?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2289832/

"A whey-protein supplement increases fat loss and spares lean muscle in obese subjects"

Protein provides far more than just energy, that's not it's primary role as I'm sure you know.

Interesting. There are some questions though: a further control group was used, yet those results not published. And the company marketing this product was responsible for this study. I'll read it in more detail tonight.

I see your concerns - personally, though, the method means more to me than who funded or sponsored a study. This was randomized and double-blind, and with it being 12 weeks and a 500 cal daily deficit shows real-world application and results.

Did it say how many subjects were studied or did I miss that?

I'm also interested to see if anyone has any more info on this subject.

yirara

Erfw7471 wrote: »

yirara wrote: »

sijomial wrote: »

How about this study?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2289832/

"A whey-protein supplement increases fat loss and spares lean muscle in obese subjects"

Protein provides far more than just energy, that's not it's primary role as I'm sure you know.

Interesting. There are some questions though: a further control group was used, yet those results not published. And the company marketing this product was responsible for this study. I'll read it in more detail tonight.

I see your concerns - personally, though, the method means more to me than who funded or sponsored a study. This was randomized and double-blind, and with it being 12 weeks and a 500 cal daily deficit shows real-world application and results.

Did it say how many subjects were studied or did I miss that?

I'm also interested to see if anyone has any more info on this subject.

yes, it did mention (on my phone at the moment. Can't check). I think 53/53/52, but a substantial number dropped out due to various reasons that are mentioned in the paper.

One thing missing for me is how/if workouts were recorded. Just getting something healthy might motivate people to start working out. The paper reports that people were given diet plans. The study group got two sachets of protein powder daily and a mixer. It's not mentioned that the control groups (and the third) were given the same, so just been given a powder to consume 20 minutes before two meals daily and a mixer might influence people's behaviour.

jasondjulian

Protein is more significant than just getting "turned into energy". That's somewhat of a misleading phrase to state. Macros don't just get turned into pure universal energy that flows through the body like the force...

Proteins are used either whole or partially broken down into amino acids, the body then uses those amino acids for body processes such as building new proteins, which can and does include the repairing of and maintaining of muscle tissues.

So yes, on a molecular anatomy level, just consuming sufficient protein can and will preserve some muscle mass. It also requires a good amount of energy (and here I'm talking about mitochondrial ATP based energy to trigger chemical reactions) to digest, break down, recompile and build new protein molecules- so the body will typically use body fat stores to fuel this reaction. Win-win, burn some fat, maintain some muscle, cell membranes, organ tissues, essential metabolic functions are all happy.

Adding in weight lifting/exercise that actually USES the muscle groups in addition to consuming protein in the required amounts just makes it all that much better. As you use the muscles, the fibers tear and the release of hormones during this process leads the body to repair those muscle fibers and tissues to be stronger than before, in order to resist the tearing that damaged them in the first place; just like the location of a broken bone is stronger after healing- the result is a larger muscle cell with stronger ionic bonds between the fibers that increases your overall strength, all the while needing to burn fat stores to fuel this entire process. Calcium, Sodium, Potassium and some other minerals are essential to this process. It's more complex than that with peptides and various inter-meshing networks of molecules... but I digress (but not by much).

The point is that this is why heavy lifting contributes greatly to fat loss, and getting enough protein to rebuild and maintain muscle is critical.

yirara

jasondjulian wrote: »

Protein is more significant than just getting "turned into energy". That's somewhat of a misleading phrase to state. Macros don't just get turned into pure universal energy that flows through the body like the force...

Proteins are used either whole or partially broken down into amino acids, the body then uses those amino acids for body processes such as building new proteins, which can and does include the repairing of and maintaining of muscle tissues.

So yes, on a molecular anatomy level, just consuming sufficient protein can and will preserve some muscle mass. It also requires a good amount of energy (and here I'm talking about mitochondrial ATP based energy to trigger chemical reactions) to digest, break down, recompile and build new protein molecules- so the body will typically use body fat stores to fuel this reaction. Win-win, burn some fat, maintain some muscle, cell membranes, organ tissues, essential metabolic functions are all happy.

Adding in weight lifting/exercise that actually USES the muscle groups in addition to consuming protein in the required amounts just makes it all that much better. As you use the muscles, the fibers tear and the release of hormones during this process leads the body to repair those muscle fibers and tissues to be stronger than before, in order to resist the tearing that damaged them in the first place; just like the location of a broken bone is stronger after healing- the result is a larger muscle cell with stronger ionic bonds between the fibers that increases your overall strength, all the while needing to burn fat stores to fuel this entire process. Calcium, Sodium, Potassium and some other minerals are essential to this process. It's more complex than that with peptides and various inter-meshing networks of molecules... but I digress (but not by much).

The point is that this is why heavy lifting contributes greatly to fat loss, and getting enough protein to rebuild and maintain muscle is critical.

Thanks a lot! This is really interesting.

jasondjulian

yirara wrote: »

Thanks a lot! This is really interesting.

Very welcome; glad those Biology/Biochem degrees finally came in handy!

mitch16

I don't have research, but anecdotally I can tell you that when I tore my ACL, even though I was getting plenty of protein and maintained muscle in my good leg, I lost centimeters of muscle volume in my injured leg. I think "no exercise" is kind of subjective--there's the "I'm not running 5 miles a day" lack of exercise and the "I'm wearing an immobilizer and even weight-bearing when walking" lack of exercise--and I had both going on...

jasondjulian

mitch16 wrote: »

I don't have research, but anecdotally I can tell you that when I tore my ACL, even though I was getting plenty of protein and maintained muscle in my good leg, I lost centimeters of muscle volume in my injured leg. I think "no exercise" is kind of subjective--there's the "I'm not running 5 miles a day" lack of exercise and the "I'm wearing an immobilizer and even weight-bearing when walking" lack of exercise--and I had both going on...

Worse than that, the leg muscles assist in pumping blood throughout the body- it's not all heart doing the work. The muscular contractions help push blood through the veins and arteries much in the same way they assist in moving food down the esophagus.

Being so immobilized is never a good option, even when it's the only one.