Is my simple, beginner strength routine missing anything important?

toxikon
toxikon Posts: 2,383 Member
Hey all, I'm a woman who has finally returned to strength-training and I'm hoping to keep it ultra simple to begin with to keep my motivation high and my workouts fairly quick. Do you see any glaring muscle groups I'm missing with this full-body 3x a week plan?
  • Barbell deadlifts (3 sets of 6-8)
  • Barbell squats (3 sets of 6-8)
  • Dumbbell bench press (3 sets of 8-10)
  • Dumbbell bent-over rows (3 sets of 8-10)
  • Machine overhead shoulder press (3 sets of 8-10)
  • Machine lat pull-downs (3 sets of 8-10)
  • Planks (3 reps to failure)

Thank you!

Replies

  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    edited January 2018
    I wouldn't do the whole routine 3x per week...break it out into an A/B

    Workout A:
    - Squats
    - Bench Press
    - Bent over Rows
    - Dips/Assisted dips (you don't have that in there I know)
    - planks (most people start with a time and work it up)

    Workout B:
    - Squats
    - OH press (use dumbbells or barbells, not a machine)
    - Dead lift
    - lat pull downs or assisted pull ups
    - planks

    This is basically the Starting Strength format which is a well established program...biggest difference would be your set and rep range and accessory work.
  • toxikon
    toxikon Posts: 2,383 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I wouldn't do the whole routine 3x per week...break it out into an A/B

    Workout A:
    - Squats
    - Bench Press
    - Bent over Rows
    - Dips/Assisted dips (you don't have that in there I know)
    - planks (most people start with a time and work it up)

    Workout B:
    - Squats
    - OH press (use dumbbells or barbells, not a machine)
    - Dead lift
    - lat pull downs or assisted pull ups
    - planks

    This is basically the Starting Strength format which is a well established program...biggest difference would be your set and rep range and accessory work.

    Thank ya! I was debating whether I should split it up or not. That all sounds good to me. I'm planning to start with lat pull-downs (I have baby arms) then working towards pull-ups. Dips are a good idea.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    Nope, nothing glaring.
  • toxikon
    toxikon Posts: 2,383 Member
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    Nope, nothing glaring.

    Great, thanks!
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    edited January 2018
    toxikon wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I wouldn't do the whole routine 3x per week...break it out into an A/B

    Workout A:
    - Squats
    - Bench Press
    - Bent over Rows
    - Dips/Assisted dips (you don't have that in there I know)
    - planks (most people start with a time and work it up)

    Workout B:
    - Squats
    - OH press (use dumbbells or barbells, not a machine)
    - Dead lift
    - lat pull downs or assisted pull ups
    - planks

    This is basically the Starting Strength format which is a well established program...biggest difference would be your set and rep range and accessory work.

    Thank ya! I was debating whether I should split it up or not. That all sounds good to me. I'm planning to start with lat pull-downs (I have baby arms) then working towards pull-ups. Dips are a good idea.

    Just make sure you're focusing on your big lifts (compound) first. When I did starting strength, I just focused on those lifts and added in accessory work like dips and pull-ups like 4-6 weeks in or something. I don't think it hurts to throw them in there, you just want to make sure you're getting everything right and all you can out of your compound movements.
  • toxikon
    toxikon Posts: 2,383 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    toxikon wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    I wouldn't do the whole routine 3x per week...break it out into an A/B

    Workout A:
    - Squats
    - Bench Press
    - Bent over Rows
    - Dips/Assisted dips (you don't have that in there I know)
    - planks (most people start with a time and work it up)

    Workout B:
    - Squats
    - OH press (use dumbbells or barbells, not a machine)
    - Dead lift
    - lat pull downs or assisted pull ups
    - planks

    This is basically the Starting Strength format which is a well established program...biggest difference would be your set and rep range and accessory work.

    Thank ya! I was debating whether I should split it up or not. That all sounds good to me. I'm planning to start with lat pull-downs (I have baby arms) then working towards pull-ups. Dips are a good idea.

    Just make sure you're focusing on your big lifts (compound) first. When I did starting strength, I just focused on those lifts and added in accessory work like dips and pull-ups like 4-6 weeks in or something. I don't think it hurts to throw them in there, you just want to make sure you're getting everything right and all you can out of your compound movements.

    Yeah, that makes sense. I always do my deadlifts and squats first to make sure I have enough energy to do them properly. I'm starting slow with very low weights to focus on form!
  • toxikon
    toxikon Posts: 2,383 Member
    Azdak wrote: »
    Unless you are very disciplined about your number of workouts/week, I would not be in any hurry to move to a split routine. IMO, if life gets in the way, you would be better off dropping down to 2x/wk full body workouts than messing around with a split routine. The research is not definitive, and, quite frankly, as a beginner you will see significant improvement no matter what you do, but what research there is suggests that whole-body routines are better for beginners than split routines.

    Thanks for your input! I've been going to the gym on my lunch-breaks, so I have time for about a 30-40 minute workout Mon-Fri most weeks. So I was thinking about aiming for a Mon-Wed-Fri routine.
  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    I think its pretty safe for a beginner to do a variety of ab exercises besides planks. I've never seen a beginner program that does the same exact exercise every single workout. But yes form and technique is important, but changing up exercises isn't' going to mess with form, if anything its going to help build form and technique.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Variety has its place, especially the longer one follows a lifting program. But again, I would disagree with the ideas that someone needs to do something “slightly different each day” or that frequently changing exercises (as a beginner) is “going to help build form and technique”.

    http://www.burnthefatinnercircle.com/members/Pros-And-Cons-of-Exercise-Variation.cfm

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/exercise-variety-is-making-you-weak

    I’m not surprised that you haven’t seen published beginner programs like what I describe. It’s hard to be a guru when you tell people the best thing for them is to master a half a dozen exercises before trying to learn 20 or 30.
  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    so how long would you recommend someone take to master a plank before their form is good enough to move on to something really simple like ball ab crunches or leg raises?
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    SonyaCele wrote: »
    so how long would you recommend someone take to master a plank before their form is good enough to move on to something really simple like ball ab crunches or leg raises?

    Try again when you have a serious question.
  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    you are suggesting she stick with the same exact few movements so im' asking how long to stay with that same exact movement. My question is as ridiculous as your statements that beginners should not have variety in their workouts.
  • DancingMoosie
    DancingMoosie Posts: 8,619 Member
    I like your routine, but agree with above poster: use free weights instead of machines (OHP). Also, you will need to work in some progression. So, start adding weights after a week or two. As you add weights, you might find the need to decrease the reps. This is where a program would come in handy. But it's a good place to start. Of course, you don't need to do the plank, but you can also do whatever ab work you want. It's just not necessary when doing compound lifting.
  • jjpptt2
    jjpptt2 Posts: 5,650 Member
    I may be speaking a little beyond my knowledge at this point, so take it for what it's worth, but I believe sticking with the same lifts over time will yield better results, both in terms of strength gains and progression with each individual lift. From everything I've read, secondary lifts can be swapped in and out based on need / desire, but main core lifts should remain pretty constant throughout a routine.
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited January 2018
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    I may be speaking a little beyond my knowledge at this point, so take it for what it's worth, but I believe sticking with the same lifts over time will yield better results, both in terms of strength gains and progression with each individual lift. From everything I've read, secondary lifts can be swapped in and out based on need / desire, but main core lifts should remain pretty constant throughout a routine.

    Correct. The old "muscle confusion" thing from the '70s got debunked quite a while back.

    There's nothing wrong with switching up exercises/changing the routine occasionally, but it's certainly not necessary, nor is it necessarily beneficial. Using the same primary lifts both enables you to better gauge/manage your progression and also builds technical proficiency in those lifts. And it's certainly not beneficial to switch them out from workout to workout. Unless you're a Crossfitter, I guess. And that's a whole 'nother subject.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Wasn't mentioned yet - but @cwolfman13 gave a different order than you gave too.

    Now, perhaps your list was the order you were planning on doing it, perhaps it wasn't.
    But not a good order if it was.

    Notice cwolfman alternating between lower, and upper pulls and pushes - gives better ability to recover between lifts.

    And for sure confuse your muscles by swapping things up by
    progressively adding weight as time goes on.
    Oh, to progress on planks - add time. Or eventually a weight to your back. Or do crunchs - for that part, no big whoop.
    Probably tighten your core more on all standing lifts anyway.

    Let time be your factor if you attempt 3 x full body weekly, or 3 x a 2-day split.

    If you really can get the 30 min in for 2-day split, not so bad.
  • Okiludy
    Okiludy Posts: 558 Member
    Why not just follow an established program?
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)

  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)

    I don't see it as missing progression, but I could maybe make an argument for it missing some form of periodization.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    edited January 2018
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    jjpptt2 wrote: »
    I may be speaking a little beyond my knowledge at this point, so take it for what it's worth, but I believe sticking with the same lifts over time will yield better results, both in terms of strength gains and progression with each individual lift. From everything I've read, secondary lifts can be swapped in and out based on need / desire, but main core lifts should remain pretty constant throughout a routine.

    Correct. The old "muscle confusion" thing from the '70s got debunked quite a while back.

    There's nothing wrong with switching up exercises/changing the routine occasionally, but it's certainly not necessary, nor is it necessarily beneficial. Using the same primary lifts both enables you to better gauge/manage your progression and also builds technical proficiency in those lifts. And it's certainly not beneficial to switch them out from workout to workout. Unless you're a Crossfitter, I guess. And that's a whole 'nother subject.

    There is absolutely no question that a beginner, over a 4-6 week period of time, will get significantly better results in strength and size doing a bench press —with some variations in sets and reps—each day than doing bench one day, flys one day, push ups one day, cable press one day, etc.
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)

    I don't see it as missing progression, but I could maybe make an argument for it missing some form of periodization.


    It’s a mixture of both for what I was getting at. I’ll try to make sense of my madness.

    So yes as long as you hold true to adding weight with your 6-8 reps, there is definitely a form of progression. But what is the scheme? 5lbs a week, 10lbs, what is there to ensure OP is actually consistently adding weight to their lifts. Seeing as a certain number of reps at a certain weight can “feel” difficult for quite sometime without actually realizing you can do more. My first 3 reps at one weight can actually feel equal in weight to my first 3 reps of a higher weight. Despite being able to lift for many more reps at the lower weight.

    For the periodization, which is closer to what I meant. There is no alternation between 1rm percentages along with varying reps. The OP will likely be restricted to almost a constant percentage of their 1rm, though overtime it will increase purely due to lifting and if op is progressively adding weight.
    Which is definitely acceptable for a beginner, but as the weight increase periodization between percentages and varying reps will become more and more warranted.

    Basically a system that ensures the OP is progressively and sustainably adding weights/resistance to all of their movements seems to be a missing component in their program.

    No challenge noted! Always up for a good discussion when it comes to lifting even if it involves differences of opinions
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    jessef593 wrote: »
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)

    I don't see it as missing progression, but I could maybe make an argument for it missing some form of periodization.


    It’s a mixture of both for what I was getting at. I’ll try to make sense of my madness.

    So yes as long as you hold true to adding weight with your 6-8 reps, there is definitely a form of progression. But what is the scheme? 5lbs a week, 10lbs, what is there to ensure OP is actually consistently adding weight to their lifts. Seeing as a certain number of reps at a certain weight can “feel” difficult for quite sometime without actually realizing you can do more. My first 3 reps at one weight can actually feel equal in weight to my first 3 reps of a higher weight. Despite being able to lift for many more reps at the lower weight.

    For the periodization, which is closer to what I meant. There is no alternation between 1rm percentages along with varying reps. The OP will likely be restricted to almost a constant percentage of their 1rm, though overtime it will increase purely due to lifting and if op is progressively adding weight.
    Which is definitely acceptable for a beginner, but as the weight increase periodization between percentages and varying reps will become more and more warranted.

    Basically a system that ensures the OP is progressively and sustainably adding weights/resistance to all of their movements seems to be a missing component in their program.

    No challenge noted! Always up for a good discussion when it comes to lifting even if it involves differences of opinions

    That’s what I suspected. In this case I was sticking to the “newbie” parameters of the OP’s scenario and thinking more in terms of a starting 6-8 week timeframe. Obviously the longer one lifts, the more periodization, and some accessory lifts come into play.

    But, in my mind, even those are just planned permutations of your core workout—and different from the idea that routinely mixing up exercises is necessary to “confuse” the muscles.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    Okiludy wrote: »
    Why not just follow an established program?

    This was going to be my question too... ?
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    Nice selection of compound exercises with a good balance of push/pull, upper and lower.
    That's a far better and efficient routine than the vast majority of people I see lifting in my gym!

    Personally I would change the order (assuming you have given the list in your running order) to split the squats and deadlifts but otherwise think you have a nice routine to get you going and hit all muscle groups x3 a week.

    Weight lifting doesn't have to be complex!
  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    Azdak wrote: »
    jessef593 wrote: »
    It’s missing the most important part of a strength training routine. It’s progression scheme.

    So you do 6-8 reps every time. What is in place ensuring you actually progress steadily while also ensuring you don’t overload your body inhibiting your ability to recover and adapt. Even beginner workouts should consist of some sort of progression.

    If you are progressively increasing the weight, how is 6-8 reps not “progressive”? (Not a challenging question—just curious how you are defining “progression”)

    I don't see it as missing progression, but I could maybe make an argument for it missing some form of periodization.


    It’s a mixture of both for what I was getting at. I’ll try to make sense of my madness.

    So yes as long as you hold true to adding weight with your 6-8 reps, there is definitely a form of progression. But what is the scheme? 5lbs a week, 10lbs, what is there to ensure OP is actually consistently adding weight to their lifts. Seeing as a certain number of reps at a certain weight can “feel” difficult for quite sometime without actually realizing you can do more. My first 3 reps at one weight can actually feel equal in weight to my first 3 reps of a higher weight. Despite being able to lift for many more reps at the lower weight.

    For the periodization, which is closer to what I meant. There is no alternation between 1rm percentages along with varying reps. The OP will likely be restricted to almost a constant percentage of their 1rm, though overtime it will increase purely due to lifting and if op is progressively adding weight.
    Which is definitely acceptable for a beginner, but as the weight increase periodization between percentages and varying reps will become more and more warranted.

    Basically a system that ensures the OP is progressively and sustainably adding weights/resistance to all of their movements seems to be a missing component in their program.

    No challenge noted! Always up for a good discussion when it comes to lifting even if it involves differences of opinions

    That’s what I suspected. In this case I was sticking to the “newbie” parameters of the OP’s scenario and thinking more in terms of a starting 6-8 week timeframe. Obviously the longer one lifts, the more periodization, and some accessory lifts come into play.

    But, in my mind, even those are just planned permutations of your core workout—and different from the idea that routinely mixing up exercises is necessary to “confuse” the muscles.

    That is one of the more entertaining bro thought processes when it comes to lifting.

    If you want to be good at a certain movement you have to do it as often as recovery and your body permits in order to become more efficient. The constant changing of exercises can actually be detrimental since it is extremely difficult to log progression on ever changing movements.

    Exactly though, accessories should be there to enhance your main lifts and they should be added and subtracted in such a way to help ensure that.

This discussion has been closed.