StrongLifts 5x5 and adding core to the mix

brtgl

I had an OMG moment when I looked in the mirror and started to see some definition in my stomach this morning and was wondering if I could mix in some core exercises to my existing SL 5x5 routine, which I'm two weeks into.

shadow2soul

Sure. There is a similar program called Ice Cream Fitness 5x5. It's basically Strong lifts with accessory work and cable crunches are one of the accessory exercises.

brtgl

I'll definitely check that out. Thanks. While doing SL 5x5, it almost feels a little too slow, but I know I need to be patient and that it eventually gets more strenuous. I REALLY like the SL 5x5 app, which makes it easy to go through each workout. Do you know if Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 has something similar?

shadow2soul

I don't think it does. I believe I used bodyspace to track when I did it (was a couple years ago when I had access to a gym).

DanSanthomes

If you're only 2 weeks in, you can give it more time. The compound lifts work your core anyway so you will gain definition as you go along without doing anything extra. However, if you're only doing 3-4 sessions a week, that does leave you some 'rest' days to do a bit of extra core work.

Just don't overdo it to the point your lifts suffer :-)

pondee629

The Strong Lifts 5x5 program, on my phone, provides for an optional timed plank exercise.

stanmann571

Leading cause of failure is being in too big a hurry and burning out.

That being said. 3-5 minutes of plank variations(20-30 seconds each set of 5-10 sets)daily on waking will certainly benefit your core development. But it's not necessary.

jjpptt2

Tangentially related...

It is possible to do most of major compound lifts with less than ideal core activation/benefit. If you want to train your core more, make sure you are engaging those muscles correctly when doing your 5x5 work. It may sound stoopid, but it's not always as obvious as you think.

ThinGoldLineNS

I will be adding some Core TRX exercises to my SL 5X5 days.

brtgl

Interesting comparison of StrongLifts 5x5 versus Ice Cream Fitness: https://medium.com/@rahrang/reflections-on-summer-2015-stronglifts-5x5-and-ice-cream-fitness-8b4f3d45f41b

jfan175

brtgl wrote: »

Interesting comparison of StrongLifts 5x5 versus Ice Cream Fitness: https://medium.com/@rahrang/reflections-on-summer-2015-stronglifts-5x5-and-ice-cream-fitness-8b4f3d45f41b

If you look at the miniscule weights this guy was lifting, and the fact he only gave SL one week...it's hard to consider this a legit comparison. If you get through a full 12 weeks of SL as a beginner, you can't help but make substantial gains.

DaddieCat

I add in planks and side planks for my core and variations thereof. That has always been enough for me, but then again... I'm not trying to grate cheese on my midsection.

nowine4me

Second planks on off days.

sgt1372

No need to add core exercises to a 5x5 or any other compound lifting program. Doing the compound lifts already stresses and strengthens your core. Any extra "core" exercise is just a waste of time.

My experience is proof of that.

I did both Stronglifts and Starting Strength (at different points in time) and have continued to do a program of my own based on them and have NEVER done a single "core" exercise.

Nonetheless, I developed visible abs and noticeable muscular definition which are proof of the core strengthening effects of doing just compound lifts.

However, you will NOT be able to see your abs or develop noticeable muscle definition UNLESS you also lose sufficient body fat.

The amount of BF loss necessary varies w/the individual but, in my case, it was 10-12% (as measured by hydro).

brtgl

Thanks for all the good input. I've decided to push forward with SL 5x5 for now. One concern I have are the exercises' impact on my lower back, such as the deadlift. About six months ago, I pulled a muscle there and could hardly move at times without an agonizing and sharp pain. Getting out of bed for a 2-3 week period was a lengthy process.

Once I was on the couch and literally could not get up for half an hour. Wifey gave me Advil and sat there with me until I got brave enough to struggle through the process of getting on my feet again, which included sliding my knees to the floor and so forth.

Chieflrg

sgt1372 wrote: »

No need to add core exercises to a 5x5 or any other compound lifting program. Doing the compound lifts already stresses and strengthens your core. Any extra "core" exercise is just a waste of time.

My experience is proof of that.

I did both Stronglifts and Starting Strength (at different points in time) and have continued to do a program of my own based on them and have NEVER done a single "core" exercise.

Nonetheless, I developed visible abs and noticeable muscular definition which are proof of the core strengthening effects of doing just compound lifts.

However, you will NOT be able to see your abs or develop noticeable muscle definition UNLESS you also lose sufficient body fat.

The amount of BF loss necessary varies w/the individual but, in my case, it was 10-12% (as measured by hydro).

Dependant on your goals and level of lifting. I understand your point for this case of a rank novice, but it shouldn't blanket everyone who does compound programming as a waste of time.

Why I agree a compound lifting program such as SS or SL will give sufficient core work initially from a novice phase into intermediate. At some point a lifter who progresses into a very late intermediate or advanced with a strength goal might need more ab/core work as accessory lift depending on their adaptation and programming.

Chieflrg

brtgl wrote: »

Thanks for all the good input. I've decided to push forward with SL 5x5 for now. One concern I have are the exercises' impact on my lower back, such as the deadlift. About six months ago, I pulled a muscle there and could hardly move at times without an agonizing and sharp pain. Getting out of bed for a 2-3 week period was a lengthy process.

Once I was on the couch and literally could not get up for half an hour. Wifey gave me Advil and sat there with me until I got brave enough to struggle through the process of getting on my feet again, which included sliding my knees to the floor and so forth.

I would pay more attention to your form. I'd suggest buying Starring Strength 3rd edition book and read it. It gIves all the details one needs to lift properly.

I've rarely heard anybody injuring themselves when the barbell was balanced over midfoot the entire lift.

Deadlifts is a great strengthening lift for the back and when programmed & performed correctly, there is very little to be concerned about.

I have had problems getting out of bed every day the past 15 years or so, yet deadlifts only help my situation/health. I continued to deadlift when I seperated my intercostal rib muscles when squatting a couple weeks before a powerlifting meet and had no problems during or after the meet. I attribute most of the rehab to deadlifting heavy with good form.

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cwolfman13

I don't do much direct core work given that I hit it pretty good with compound movements...however, I typically do 3-5 sets of an anti-extension movement at the end of one workout and anti-flexion movement at the end of the other...so like an ab roller or walk-outs on one workout and planks on the other...

sarahjen92

If you pay the $10 for the SL app versus using the free version, you can customize your workouts. There's an option for timed plank on workout A, and I add my own as well (reverse incline crunches, bicycle abs, crunches, etc).

I love the app. It makes working out more simplified and hits all the major stuff. I do always add core, as well as push ups and pull ups to all the workouts as well.

brtgl

sarahjen92 wrote: »

If you pay the $10 for the SL app versus using the free version, you can customize your workouts. There's an option for timed plank on workout A, and I add my own as well (reverse incline crunches, bicycle abs, crunches, etc).

I love the app. It makes working out more simplified and hits all the major stuff. I do always add core, as well as push ups and pull ups to all the workouts as well.

Thanks for the suggestion. I just might do that. Do people do SL 5x5 as a beginner type workout or do they do it indefinitely? I'm a few weeks into it and can already feel it getting more challenging.

CarlydogsMom

@brtgl I also find my back feels more stabilized when I deadlift using the hex bar rather than the regular bar. My form is better and I don't have to mentally force my back to NOT be overused by the nature of how I'm set up with that bar. Hard to explain, as I know the form basics, but it seems like the hex bar gives me one less thing to concentrate on so heavily.

Also, in the meantime as your back heals, maybe rack pulls will help you maintain strength if you don't want to go full deadlift (or just use lighter weight on your DL?).

brtgl

CarlydogsMom wrote: »

@brtgl I also find my back feels more stabilized when I deadlift using the hex bar rather than the regular bar. My form is better and I don't have to mentally force my back to NOT be overused by the nature of how I'm set up with that bar. Hard to explain, as I know the form basics, but it seems like the hex bar gives me one less thing to concentrate on so heavily.

Also, in the meantime as your back heals, maybe rack pulls will help you maintain strength if you don't want to go full deadlift (or just use lighter weight on your DL?).

Thanks for the suggestions. Do you know how I can identify the "rack pulls" at LA Fitness? I might just go that route.

sarahjen92

brtgl wrote: »

sarahjen92 wrote: »

If you pay the $10 for the SL app versus using the free version, you can customize your workouts. There's an option for timed plank on workout A, and I add my own as well (reverse incline crunches, bicycle abs, crunches, etc).

I love the app. It makes working out more simplified and hits all the major stuff. I do always add core, as well as push ups and pull ups to all the workouts as well.

Thanks for the suggestion. I just might do that. Do people do SL 5x5 as a beginner type workout or do they do it indefinitely? I'm a few weeks into it and can already feel it getting more challenging.

Honestly, I've heard people into serious weight lifting that said it was geared more for beginners. In my humble opinion (and I'm not into lifting for aesthetics), it's a solid workout for anyone who's main goal is to be fit for everyday life. My jobs require me to be physically fit, but I also don't have a lot of time for working out always. I love that this program takes relatively little time, but like I said, I customize it a bit, and I also add cardio (cycling or running).

Play around with it to see if you need/want more

jfan175

It's considered a beginners program due to the fact that you just can't keep adding 5lbs to the bar indefinitely...and heavy squatting 3x per week will eventually take it's toll when you're moving really heavy weights.

DevilsFan1

SL 5x5 is a linear progression program (you add the same amount of weight every session). Eventually, you won't be able to do this and you'll plateau. At that point, you should look at moving to an intermediate program with periodization. 5/3/1 is probably the most popular intermediate programming template out there. You have a ways to go before you need to consider that though. Just squeeze as much out of SL as you can.

I will say that SL is very squat-heavy though, and it neglects upper body to some extent. Bench press in particular benefits from more volume than SL programs for. A beginner should probably be benching twice a week to see fastest progression. If you really love working out and have 90 minutes to kill in the gym, you might check out the reddit r/fitness program called nSuns 531 LP. It's a linear program that has a LOT more volume than SL. I ran it a couple of times last year and saw my best results of any linear program. You lift M-F and hit each of the big four lifts twice per week. You need to be eating a surplus to progress though and it is best to run it for six-eight weeks. It's taxing and you'll probably need to deload after being on it for a couple of months. It's an awesome program for building strength though.

brtgl

Last night was the "bench" workout for my SL 5x5. I had finally had enough of not feeling tested with benching, that I upped the weight by 10 pounds to 65 pounds and ended up doing the following six sets:

1. 5 reps at 60
2. 10 reps at 65
3. 5 reps at 65
4. 5 reps at 65
5. 20 reps at 65
6. 10 reps at 65

After that, I finally felt like I was getting somewhere. I might go straight to 75 next time and do the first four sets of five and a fifth set as far as I can go.

So now I need to digest the above suggestions and figure out how I want to customize. I hate having to stray from the handy StrongLifts app, but need more upper body.

DevilsFan1

brtgl wrote: »

Last night was the "bench" workout for my SL 5x5. I had finally had enough of not feeling tested with benching, that I upped the weight by 10 pounds to 65 pounds and ended up doing the following six sets:

1. 5 reps at 60
2. 10 reps at 65
3. 5 reps at 65
4. 5 reps at 65
5. 20 reps at 65
6. 10 reps at 65

After that, I finally felt like I was getting somewhere. I might go straight to 75 next time and do the first four sets of five and a fifth set as far as I can go.

So now I need to digest the above suggestions and figure out how I want to customize. I hate having to stray from the handy StrongLifts app, but need more upper body.

If you're confident in your form, you're better off upping the weight to a point where 5x5 feels challenging. If you're getting 20 reps, you need to up the weights big time. In fact, if you can do ten reps, the weight is too light. But ONLY if you're confident you're using good form.

When I ran SL a year ago, I jumped from 65 straight to 95 and never looked back.

brtgl

DevilsFan1 wrote: »

brtgl wrote: »

Last night was the "bench" workout for my SL 5x5. I had finally had enough of not feeling tested with benching, that I upped the weight by 10 pounds to 65 pounds and ended up doing the following six sets:

1. 5 reps at 60
2. 10 reps at 65
3. 5 reps at 65
4. 5 reps at 65
5. 20 reps at 65
6. 10 reps at 65

After that, I finally felt like I was getting somewhere. I might go straight to 75 next time and do the first four sets of five and a fifth set as far as I can go.

So now I need to digest the above suggestions and figure out how I want to customize. I hate having to stray from the handy StrongLifts app, but need more upper body.

If you're confident in your form, you're better off upping the weight to a point where 5x5 feels challenging. If you're getting 20 reps, you need to up the weights big time. In fact, if you can do ten reps, the weight is too light. But ONLY if you're confident you're using good form.

When I ran SL a year ago, I jumped from 65 straight to 95 and never looked back.

With the weight going up five pounds for each workout, and the fact that I haven't lifted since college, I might make a leap to 85, not quite as much as you, and see how that feels. Thanks for the reply. Every lit bit of advice helps.

brtgl

Update: Going on week three of StrongLifts 5x5. I increased the bench press by 20 pounds and decreased the deadlift by 20 pounds (concerned about lower back injury from five months ago) and am finally feeling as though I'm getting a productive workout. I will continue along this course for the foreseeable future and then will eventually decide where to go from there.

Deacap

Hello all,
I dont want to hijack this thread but I am doing ICF now going on 2 months. Could I replace barbell rows with pull ups?