Low carb vs Ketogenic. CICO?
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RubinaKochar wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I'm curious why you think you would not lose weight doing it that way.
I think low carb/keto can be helpful if one finds it makes a difference with satiety or makes things easier (sometimes just because you get to feel like you are eating in an indulgent way still, even when cutting calories). But not everyone does, and if you don't there's no weight loss benefit.
I would find very low carb hard as a vegetarian (and probably get tired of the amount of eggs and dairy I was consuming), but some might find it helpful. For me, not worrying about carb numbers but focusing on eating foods I find satiating and pleasurable and nutrient-dense would be a better approach, as well as calories, of course. If that means carbs in up at 20%, great, if it means they end up at 55%, great -- it's having a satisfying and enjoyable overall diet that hits my nutrient goals (like micros, protein) that matters to me.
I agree to all you said. I think the main problem is that I'm feeling better creating a deficit on low carb high fat. When I was trying everything in moderation, I was eating my fingertips off. Maybe I'll learn a better, less "diet-oriented" path along the way, but for now this seems doable.
As long as you're meeting your nutritional needs (and I see no particular reason to worry that you aren't), I always think the best thing to do for weight loss is to follow the eating style that makes it easiest for you to maintain a deficit. Why make things harder than they are? If eating lower carbohydrate and higher fat makes it easier for you and makes weight loss more doable, go for it!4 -
Yes, which I acknowledged on the previous page:Ah, that makes sense.0 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
Yup, it can be very dramatic depending on how big you are and how much muscle mass you have. I was 240# at the peak of my bulk eating an average of 400-500g of carbs a day. When I started my cut I dropped that to about 80-100g of carbs and ended up shedding about 20 pounds in the first two weeks... 30 pounds total since Christmas.
However, I have no delusions that it was fat I initially lost and I know that as soon as I start ramping up my carbs again it's going to be quite a rebound.
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Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??3 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
Yup, it can be very dramatic depending on how big you are and how much muscle mass you have. I was 240# at the peak of my bulk eating an average of 400-500g of carbs a day. When I started my cut I dropped that to about 80-100g of carbs and ended up shedding about 20 pounds in the first two weeks... 30 pounds total since Christmas.
However, I have no delusions that it was fat I initially lost and I know that as soon as I start ramping up my carbs again it's going to be quite a rebound.
I know I will gain back water and glycogen mass when and if I start eating a normal carb diet. But why would I gain back the fat I have lost if I'm eating at maintenance?
It's a genuine question, not a rhetoric argument. :P0 -
I've lost 50lbs and 50-60% of my intake is carbs.1
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yvonne_beavis wrote: »I've lost 50lbs and 50-60% of my intake is carbs.
I do not contradict that fat can be lost at a high carb diet. I'm just very cranky when I'm eating less with nearly half of my diet being carbs. Higher fat allows me to feel full. If you don't feel like me on a normal carb diet, more power to you! I envy your will power.
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RubinaKochar wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??
@Poisonedpawn78 Kindly throw some light here0 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »RubinaKochar wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??
@Poisonedpawn78 Kindly throw some light here
I think it's just in general that a lot of people creep back to their old ways of eating if they are looking at something as a temporary measure only whilst in a deficit and not a way of eating they plan to continue on in to maintenance. If you find it more satisfying to eat higher fat/lower carb, chances are you will be fine in the long term.2 -
RubinaKochar wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
I'm confused. I might be losing water/ glycogen mass initially. But am I not losing fat if I'm eating at a deficit consistently??
If after losing I go back to eating carbs but eating at maintenance, I would gain back water + glycogen but I won't gain fat (since I'm not eating at a caloric surplus). Isn't it??
Yes you have it right. I was pointing out how some people think keto is magic because of that initial loss that will return once the eating habits change. They dont distinguish that it isnt permanent and confuse it with fat loss which is entirely about calories/deficit.
The fat you lose while on keto or any other diet will only return if you eat more calories than you are burning.1 -
Oh thanks a lot. All of you. 0
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RubinaKochar wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
Yup, it can be very dramatic depending on how big you are and how much muscle mass you have. I was 240# at the peak of my bulk eating an average of 400-500g of carbs a day. When I started my cut I dropped that to about 80-100g of carbs and ended up shedding about 20 pounds in the first two weeks... 30 pounds total since Christmas.
However, I have no delusions that it was fat I initially lost and I know that as soon as I start ramping up my carbs again it's going to be quite a rebound.
I know I will gain back water and glycogen mass when and if I start eating a normal carb diet. But why would I gain back the fat I have lost if I'm eating at maintenance?
It's a genuine question, not a rhetoric argument. :P
I'm not saying you will gain back the fat. Just the water weight that you lost in the first couple of weeks. For some that can be as much as 15 to 20 pounds of initial weight and only a couple of pounds of actual fat. Some people focus on the scale too much and may only have a goal of, let's say 30 pounds, to lose. Those people lose 30 pounds - go to maintenance, quit the low carb or keto "diet" and up their carb intake and rebound those 20 pounds of water and freak out. You understand what will happen, so the rebound won't surprise you but it catches a lot of people off guard. 3 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
Everyone says this, but, I ate low carb for over a year and when I added carbs back in, I did not gain that water weight back.
Maybe that "WILL" should be a "MIGHT"6 -
KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »Just to further what others have said, Low carb diets come with one caveat that they always leave out. The moment you start eating a normal amount of carbs again you WILL gain water/glycogen weight back that left from the start of the low carb diet. It is NOT a permanent loss unless you plan on never having a normal amount of carbs again. It is also not stored fat which is what you are trying to lose.
Everyone says this, but, I ate low carb for over a year and when I added carbs back in, I did not gain that water weight back.
Maybe that "WILL" should be a "MIGHT"
Too be clear, after 1 year, you added carbs back, went on maintenance and gained exactly 0 lbs.2 -
You're still 'doing' CICO regardless of the way you choose to split your macros. One way your deficit is accidental, the other way your deficit is controlled by you. I'd pick the latter every time; I don't like to leave my efforts up to chance.1
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mrsnattybulking wrote: »You're still 'doing' CICO regardless of the way you choose to split your macros. One way your deficit is accidental, the other way your deficit is controlled by you. I'd pick the latter every time; I don't like to leave my efforts up to chance.
Nor do I.0
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