Does CICO still apply to people who are insulin resistant?
KittenTamer91
Posts: 54 Member
If so, why are they recommended a low carb diet? Diabetes runs in my family and I may be mildly insulin resistant, idk yet. So I went on a low carb diet that many people swear by and ended up gaining 40 pounds in 6 months! The ironic part is when I was my lowest weight at 5'6.5 and 120 pounds over 50% of my diet was junk foods. My logic was "If you only have so many calories, why waste them on boring food?" And that's how I originally lost over 70 pounds and got to my lowest weight. Then was convinced by others to go low carb when I found out more about my family's diabetes history. I joined low carb groups on Facebook and they said insulin controls weight and calorie counting isn't needed on low carb so I stopped. They also posted links on Dr. Fung and Taubes. That's when I eventually re-gained 40 pounds. I miss my junk food diet lol I was so slim. Why do so many people swear by and have success with low carb? I'll be honest, I was miserable on it and lost my energy to workout and gained weight, which I obviously need to re-lose.
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Replies
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Sugar is a type of carb, Insulin resistance in respect to diabetes is when your cells are not using insulin effectively and it causes a build up of sugar in your blood. Because of this you don't want to add more sugar by having a high carb diet, hence the recommendations for low carb.
Losing weight is always about CICO no matter which diet or diet style you pick. They are used to create a calorie deficit in order to lose fat.
Prediabetics are told to lose weight to reduce the risk of getting diabetes(and other health issues). Once you HAVE diabetes losing weight allows your body to use the little amount of insulin you do produce more effectively.4 -
CICO means "to lose weight you need to eat less calories than you burn". This is basic conservation of energy law. (A calorie is a unit of energy.)
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Fung and Taubes are liars who want to sell their books and seminars to people. If the people in the group recommended them, you should leave that group. There's many sensible low carbers who know it's still about calories no matter if you eat lots of carbs or not or any other way.12
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I'd definitely avoid Taubes and Fung.
And yes, CICO still applies if you are IR. Why is low carb recommended (by some)? Insulin is not bad (normally), it's how your body moves things around, such as glucose to muscles and (if it needs to be stored), fat cells. However, when someone is insulin resistant, their cells do not recognize the insulin and thus it has trouble storing the glucose or using the energy from it effectively. (Ironically, this means it is harder to store fat from carbs, but normally the person is also eating lots of calories from fat and continues to gain.)
When you can't move the glucose where it needs to go, you get high levels of sugar in your blood which can be dangerous. At first, of course, IR does not prevent the body from doing this entirely, but requires extra insulin to do so, and then more and more and so on. Often what happens is that the body overreacts and when blood sugar is moved from the blood it basically plummets, and you get those spikes and crashes of energy that some experience.
Anyway, the reason for the IR epidemic is obesity -- many, many people who wouldn't otherwise have it will develop it if overweight or obese (others are lucky and do not). A much smaller number of people (increasing as we age) can get it even if not overweight. If your family members developed IR with obesity or excess fat, then staying a healthy weight will likely be the main thing you need to do.
For addressing IR, mainstream medical recommendations are not that you need to go low carb, but that to avoid blood sugar spikes carbs should be eaten with fiber and often protein and fat too. Avoid refined carbs on their own or just with fat is often a recommendation. And if overweight, lose weight. Merely losing weight very often brings it into remission (for example, you could eat plain potato or a piece of bread without a problem like a person without IR).
Low carb does not bring T2D/IR into remission, but it prevents the symptoms (the blood sugar spikes) which if unrestricted can cause harm for someone with this condition. But if you eat the carbs, the condition returns (unless you also lose weight and then often the remission happens).
Low carb is not a diet that works for everyone, as it assumes you will be satisfied and sated eating that way. Some are, and often those with IR more than others since they were possibly not getting adequate energy from carbs as compared to how others process them. But not all, and even many who like low carb find it helps to calorie count.
I think eating a generally healthy diet is probably a good idea, but you should focus on what you find satisfying too, and no need to do low carb if you don't want to just because some family members have IR (there are alternatives even if you have IR and for most losing weight and adding exercise (which also helps with insulin sensitivity) is the main thing).7 -
I joined low carb groups on Facebook and they said insulin controls weight
They are factually incorrect, ignorant or deluded at best.
and calorie counting isn't needed on low carb so I stopped
May be true for some people, doesn't mean that your body isn't "counting calories" though!
I have quite a high carb diet but don't count calories - but it's not my high carb diet that regulates my weight. It's my lifestyle, eating and exercise habits that regulate my calorie intake.
They also posted links on Dr. Fung and Taubes.
Why do so many people swear by and have success with low carb?
Because carbs taste good and it's easy for many people to overeat them. For those people cutting carbs cuts calories and they lose weight.
Why low carbers get quite so evangelical about it and project it onto everyone else is a bit of a mystery though.
But you will find most people will have a bias towards what has been, or is perceived to have been, successful for them. Whether that is moderation, elimination, weird and wonderful supplements etc etc.
Low carb, keto and intermittent fasting are the fashions of the moment and a lot of people have sheep-like tendencies - if it's popular then it must be the best!! Which of course isn't true on an individual basis.
I'll be honest, I was miserable on it and lost my energy to workout and gained weight, which I obviously need to re-lose.
So it wasn't right for you. You tried, you learned something about yourself so it wasn't entirely a waste.
If you are in fact insulin resistant then getting your weight down will be a positive step.
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I never went low carb but put my diabetes in to remission from significant weight loss.
Fewer calories in, smaller body, the pancreas can now keep up with my insulin needs.7 -
I have diabetes and am insulin resistant. Cisco is working for me just fine. Since I switched to it in the middle of December am down 26 pounds with the benefit of this web site being free. I do need to eat less carbs because of diabetes and blood sugar. I could never do low carb or Keto, although it does work for many people with insulin resistance, it just made me desire carbs and fall off I find moderate carbs and Cisco easier to stick to. You need to experiment and see what works for yo and what you can follow best.1
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CICO is the basic energy equation. If you gained weight, you were eating more calories that you used. CI>CO.
Low carb is excellent in treating diabetes because it will not raise blood glucose much. No more blood glucose spikes, and often fewer BG lows. Eventually it is thought that if you are not raisingBG much, and not causing a need for high insulin, that you may recover your insulin sensitivity to a certain point. Losing weight, exercise, good sleep and less stress also helps.
Low carb can help with BG. If you stayed low carb (often 100g of carbs a day or less for T2 diabetics) while gaining, chances are your blood glucose was not spiking after meals. If you ate too much protein and fat, you will gain weight.
Many who have success with low carbs and weight loss do so because it diminishes their appetite and cravings for carbs, which may be the foods they overeat. It is not universal. Some with insulin resistance will lose a bit faster on a LCHF diet as their insulin levels and inflammation is reduced, but it is just a matter of a few pounds. And they are still eating in a calorie deficit.
A really good book to look into is Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution (no relation to the weight loss clinics). His book is all about levelling out BG, and reducing insulin levels in a healthy way - specific to those with insulin resistance.
Best wishes.3 -
I am doing keto, under the supervision of a doctor, and i have lost 26 pounds in 7 weeks. I am still mindful of calories, but also paying attention to macros. I am also staying at 20 g of carbs per day.
If you don’t count calories or your other macros, and only look at carbs, you are of course going to gain weight. My guess is that you also did not gain all 40 pounds while being low carb...because if I tried a new diet and gained even 20 pounds I would have stopped that diet quickly.
As others have said, low carb is not for everyone. If you get hungry and aren’t losing weight, then go back to what works for you. There are plenty of carbs out there for everyone
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I am doing keto, under the supervision of a doctor, and i have lost 26 pounds in 7 weeks. I am still mindful of calories, but also paying attention to macros. I am also staying at 20 g of carbs per day.
If you don’t count calories or your other macros, and only look at carbs, you are of course going to gain weight. My guess is that you also did not gain all 40 pounds while being low carb...because if I tried a new diet and gained even 20 pounds I would have stopped that diet quickly.
As others have said, low carb is not for everyone. If you get hungry and aren’t losing weight, then go back to what works for you. There are plenty of carbs out there for everyone.
I stopped weighing myself unfortunately and was wearing baggy sporty clothes a lot so it was hard to tell i gained until one day i took out the full-sized mirror and took a good look with no clothes on. Also eventually re-measured and got weighed again recently at the doctor's. The people in the group seemed really encouraging. There were actually posters who complained about no weight loss and the responses were basically saying that low carb is like a detox and you have to give it time, blah. I can't believe I fell for it. Low carb just doesn't satisfy me. I constantly feel hungry on it (which the members said was the "keto flu" and would eventually subside). Well, it never did. In fact, my appetite is more regulated when I eat junk food. I have no idea why lol.2 -
KittenTamer91 wrote: »I am doing keto, under the supervision of a doctor, and i have lost 26 pounds in 7 weeks. I am still mindful of calories, but also paying attention to macros. I am also staying at 20 g of carbs per day.
If you don’t count calories or your other macros, and only look at carbs, you are of course going to gain weight. My guess is that you also did not gain all 40 pounds while being low carb...because if I tried a new diet and gained even 20 pounds I would have stopped that diet quickly.
As others have said, low carb is not for everyone. If you get hungry and aren’t losing weight, then go back to what works for you. There are plenty of carbs out there for everyone.
I stopped weighing myself unfortunately and was wearing baggy sporty clothes a lot so it was hard to tell i gained until one day i took out the full-sized mirror and took a good look with no clothes on. Also eventually re-measured and got weighed again recently at the doctor's. The people in the group seemed really encouraging. There were actually posters who complained about no weight loss and the responses were basically saying that low carb is like a detox and you have to give it time, blah. I can't believe I fell for it. Low carb just doesn't satisfy me. I constantly feel hungry on it (which the members said was the "keto flu" and would eventually subside). Well, it never did. In fact, my appetite is more regulated when I eat junk food. I have no idea why lol.
I'm not sure what your definition of junk food is but whenever I tell myself no to a certain food, my willpower only goes so far. So, I get creative...I will save some calories so I can eat ice cream that night or go for a longer run to enjoy that 2nd glass of wine. I'd rather spend my energy doing other things than resisting foods that I really love to eat!1 -
gamerbabe14 wrote: »KittenTamer91 wrote: »I am doing keto, under the supervision of a doctor, and i have lost 26 pounds in 7 weeks. I am still mindful of calories, but also paying attention to macros. I am also staying at 20 g of carbs per day.
If you don’t count calories or your other macros, and only look at carbs, you are of course going to gain weight. My guess is that you also did not gain all 40 pounds while being low carb...because if I tried a new diet and gained even 20 pounds I would have stopped that diet quickly.
As others have said, low carb is not for everyone. If you get hungry and aren’t losing weight, then go back to what works for you. There are plenty of carbs out there for everyone.
I stopped weighing myself unfortunately and was wearing baggy sporty clothes a lot so it was hard to tell i gained until one day i took out the full-sized mirror and took a good look with no clothes on. Also eventually re-measured and got weighed again recently at the doctor's. The people in the group seemed really encouraging. There were actually posters who complained about no weight loss and the responses were basically saying that low carb is like a detox and you have to give it time, blah. I can't believe I fell for it. Low carb just doesn't satisfy me. I constantly feel hungry on it (which the members said was the "keto flu" and would eventually subside). Well, it never did. In fact, my appetite is more regulated when I eat junk food. I have no idea why lol.
I'm not sure what your definition of junk food is but whenever I tell myself no to a certain food, my willpower only goes so far. So, I get creative...I will save some calories so I can eat ice cream that night or go for a longer run to enjoy that 2nd glass of wine. I'd rather spend my energy doing other things than resisting foods that I really love to eat!
Sorry, I meant processed foods but lots of people consider them junk foods. When I was at my lowest weight, I was eating chips, ice cream, cookies, kid's cereals, etc on a daily basis. They made up the majority of my diet. Good times haha
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Some carbs are usually better for type 2 diabetics and prediabetics. There are two kinds of carbs to be concerned with, simple carbs and complex carbs.
Simple carb foods are refined sugars, syrups, fruit juices. They can cause a blood glucose to rise too high and/or too quickly for some people.
However, if someone's blood glucose is too low, simple carbs are what is needed to treat them first.
Complex carb foods have sugar and fiber, and the fiber slows the rise of blood glucose.
Most of us with blood glucose problems eat these complex carb foods to have a more stable and healthier level of blood glucose in their blood.
Carbohydrates are not "evil diet doers" as some keto fans seem to contend. Indeed, the body's preferred choice of fuel in the brain is glucose. And glucose helps build glycogen stores in the liver, to help you have energy throughout the day.
Simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates are "prime energy" sources for your body, and eaten in moderation even most of us with prediabetes and type two diabetes can enjoy them while maintaining healthy blood glucose levels.
Like anything else we eat, sugars (and fiber also) eaten in excess can cause issues.
It is all a balancing act. Which is why I cringe when I see diets that eliminate whole food groups/macros needlessly.
But who am I to say to those that feel and say that eating very small or no carbs helps them try to meet or manage their weight goals or other health issues are wrong.
Though I once failed miserably on Atkins, to the point of getting very ill; and I steer myself away from such diets like Atkins.
I know it is usually better to not lecture anyone else that their choice of a diet can be unhealthy.
I instead let them "work it" and decide for themselves if that other diet is healthy for them or not to follow. Or if it fits their lifestyle or not.
I would hope every dieter no matter which diet they choose works with a physician from the start of their diet, so they can be monitored for adverse complications.
Same goes for starting a new excercise program. Consult your physician first.
*I sort of rambled for some reason from simple to complex carbs, to diet choices. Lol
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Some carbs are usually better for type 2 diabetics and prediabetics. There are two kinds of carbs to be concerned with, simple carbs and complex carbs.
Not really. Carbs are, at best, neutral for a diabetics blood glucose levels. Lower carb intake = lower blood glucose levels. BG will usually fall before any weight is even lost.Simple carb foods are refined sugars, syrups, fruit juices. They can cause a blood glucose to rise too high and/or too quickly for some people.
However, if someone's blood glucose is too low, simple carbs are what is needed to treat them first.
Complex carb foods have sugar and fiber, and the fiber slows the rise of blood glucose.
Most of us with blood glucose problems eat these complex carb foods to have a more stable and healthier level of blood glucose in their blood.
As a general rule, BG will not ever go too low unless you are taking too much insulin. Symptoms of hypoglycemia like shaking, lightheadedness, and cold sweats in those who are not T1D are caused by the rapid downward swing of BG after a high. Often reactive hypoglycemia. Going very LCHF provides the brain with an alternate fuel so those symptoms no longer occur.
Fibre definitely helps slow the rise of BG, but not eating many carbs prevents the rise of BG in the first place. BG will be more stable on a LCHF diet.Carbohydrates are not "evil diet doers" as some keto fans seem to contend. Indeed, the body's preferred choice of fuel in the brain is glucose. And glucose helps build glycogen stores in the liver, to help you have energy throughout the day.
Simple carbohydrates and complex carbohydrates are "prime energy" sources for your body, and eaten in moderation even most of us with prediabetes and type two diabetes can enjoy them while maintaining healthy blood glucose levels.
Like anything else we eat, sugars (and fiber also) eaten in excess can cause issues.
The bolded is only true is your primary fuel source is glucose. If someone is fat adapted, the brain comes to prefer fat as its primary fuel.It is all a balancing act. Which is why I cringe when I see diets that eliminate whole food groups/macros needlessly.
A ketogenic diet does not typically remove a whole food group or macro. It just restricts it to under 50g of carbs a day in most cases. There are a few zero carb keto'ers around who chose to eat only animal products, but not many. The only diet that truly restricts whole food groups are veganism and vegetarianism (to a lesser degree).But who am I to say to those that feel and say that eating very small or no carbs helps them try to meet or manage their weight goals or other health issues are wrong.
Though I once failed miserably on Atkins, to the point of getting very ill; and I steer myself away from such diets like Atkins.
I know it is usually better to not lecture anyone else that their choice of a diet can be unhealthy.
I instead let them "work it" and decide for themselves if that other diet is healthy for them or not to follow. Or if it fits their lifestyle or not.
I would hope every dieter no matter which diet they choose works with a physician from the start of their diet, so they can be monitored for adverse complications.
Same goes for starting a new excercise program. Consult your physician first.
*I sort of rambled for some reason from simple to complex carbs, to diet choices. Lol
I do agree that people should work to find diets that suit them best in terms of health and sustainability, as well as to taste. To each their own.
I don't really agree with consulting a doctor before changing a diet or exercizing though, most know very little about food and nutrition. A shame.
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CICO is just a description of how weight loss and gain works, not a plan in and of itself. It just means eating more calories than you burn equals weight gain, eating less means you lose. That is just simple physics and has nothing to do with the actual nutritional part of eating.
Low carb, (or any other specific eating plan) on the other hand is about the nutrition, or how what you eat will affect your body. It's reccomended for diabetics because of the way insulin and high carbohydrate foods react, so it's healthier for them to cut back. It also happens that high carb foods are also likely to be higher calorie, so cutting down on them is a way of cutting a lot of calories out of the diet. It works for some people. Not me, personally, but some
Obviously high junk food isn't reccomended, but mixing some junk with more nutrient dense foods is perfectly fine as long as you arr staying under your caloric budget. And if that was working better for you than low carb,l it's your body, do what works for you.2
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