Meat and Cancer...
J72FIT
Posts: 6,009 Member
Curious for everyone's thoughts on this.
Mine are up in the air...
https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/21639/cancer-information/cancer-risk-and-prevention/healthy-weight-diet-and-exercise/meat-and-cancer/
Mine are up in the air...
https://www.cancercouncil.com.au/21639/cancer-information/cancer-risk-and-prevention/healthy-weight-diet-and-exercise/meat-and-cancer/
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Replies
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I like that they are finally looking at meats vs processed meats separately. Otherwise I don't see a problem with the article.2
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Other likely factors include the fat content, and the way it is processed or cooked; or because big meat eaters miss out on other protective foods such as fruit and vegetables or wholegrain cereals.
I've always felt that it has a lot more to do with the bolded. I think their tends to be a correlation between heavy meat eaters and a diet that is overall lacking in other nutrition (ie SAD)...particularly fruit and veg vs someone who, say, eats a lot of fish and is probably more likely to have a diet that is overall more healthful.10 -
seems like a balanced article to me .... we think too much meat increases chance of cancer ... eat this amount.
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Food recommendations based on studies I don't put a lot of faith in. There are so many variables that it is hard to say one item is the cause. One day coffee is bad, than it's good and suddenly bad again. Eggs are high in cholesterol and now they are not. Never mind that other risk factors can be in play. I choose to make my own judgment call on this topic. Processed meat can't be very good for you so I avoid cold cuts but still enjoy some bacon because I like it. Don't eat hamburgers but will have a steak or fish. It not a perfect science but I could eat a lot worse than I do. I also remember mom switching from butter to margarine because the experts said it was so much better for us.6
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If you look hard enough, everything causes cancer or will otherwise kill you. So much of this stuff is based on loose correlation and assumption; I sincerely believe that trying to say that X item is perfectly related to Y result in all people is a fool's errand.
Remember when flossing was supposed to be the be all end all of dental care, or when egg yolks were the devil?8 -
Christmas trees cause cancer.9
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Everyone who has cancer has drinken water so i guess water causes cancer
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I have 0% colorectal cancer risk so bring on the bacon IIRC eating processed meat EVERY DAY raises your risk from 5% (the average person has 5% chance of getting crc) to 6% so it's not really that significant. 4
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Over the recent days I've read of 2 different fabulously successful immuno-therapies to either inoculate against a wide variety of cancers are eliminate a wide variety of solid cancers.
That is, the work being done to cure cancer is proceeding quickly. Soon enough we'll quit worrying which food choices might raise our risk of cancer far in the future.2 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Over the recent days I've read of 2 different fabulously successful immuno-therapies to either inoculate against a wide variety of cancers are eliminate a wide variety of solid cancers.
That is, the work being done to cure cancer is proceeding quickly. Soon enough we'll quit worrying which food choices might raise our risk of cancer far in the future.
Immunotherapies are awesome. So many people are being treated with biologics for a multitude of autoimmune diseases and cancers and there are lots still in stage 2 or 3 clinical testing.0 -
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Detritus_1965 wrote: »
Living also increases your chance of death by 100%.7 -
They seem to be recommending moderation and eating a balanced varied diet to reduce health risks at this time.
That is pretty much sensible advice.4 -
singingflutelady wrote: »I have 0% colorectal cancer risk so bring on the bacon IIRC eating processed meat EVERY DAY raises your risk from 5% (the average person has 5% chance of getting crc) to 6% so it's not really that significant.
No colon? If you have one you are still at risk. That being said everything in moderation is usually key.1 -
I understand the processed meat one. There's a ton of junk in processed meat that could cause cancer if you eat a lot. The charred meat one baffles me though. Have people not been cooking meat over a flame for thousands of years??? And now that causes cancer too??? That seared flavor is what makes eating meat enjoyable most of the time. I'm glad the article did mention to enjoy those things in moderation instead of sounding so alarmist like a lot of other articles seem to. I do wonder though if 10 years down the road, they'll take it back and say it's once again safe to eat hot dogs and ham sandwiches? Is this going to be like dietary cholesterol where they are beginning to find out that it's not contributing to ones cholesterol numbers as much as originally thought?1
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Crafty_camper123 wrote: »I understand the processed meat one. There's a ton of junk in processed meat that could cause cancer if you eat a lot. The charred meat one baffles me though. Have people not been cooking meat over a flame for thousands of years??? And now that causes cancer too??? That seared flavor is what makes eating meat enjoyable most of the time. I'm glad the article did mention to enjoy those things in moderation instead of sounding so alarmist like a lot of other articles seem to. I do wonder though if 10 years down the road, they'll take it back and say it's once again safe to eat hot dogs and ham sandwiches? Is this going to be like dietary cholesterol where they are beginning to find out that it's not contributing to ones cholesterol numbers as much as originally thought?
This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet3 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »I understand the processed meat one. There's a ton of junk in processed meat that could cause cancer if you eat a lot. The charred meat one baffles me though. Have people not been cooking meat over a flame for thousands of years??? And now that causes cancer too??? That seared flavor is what makes eating meat enjoyable most of the time. I'm glad the article did mention to enjoy those things in moderation instead of sounding so alarmist like a lot of other articles seem to. I do wonder though if 10 years down the road, they'll take it back and say it's once again safe to eat hot dogs and ham sandwiches? Is this going to be like dietary cholesterol where they are beginning to find out that it's not contributing to ones cholesterol numbers as much as originally thought?
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.1 -
STOP THE PRESSES THEY HAVE IT WRONG!!! I buy whole meat and grind it at home, it isn't the processed meat that has the higher risk or the meat at all....MEAT GRINDERS GIVE YOU CANCER!!! How else would the risk increase so much? Beware the meat grinder. But seriously, treat you colon right: eat fiber and poop good.3
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janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
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Crafty_camper123 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
I'm still waiting for them to do a study linking obesity and cancer and make it just as media worthy as they do all the other less significant factors.1 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
I guess I don't find it inherently absurd or outlandish that lots of everyday substances may be associated with an increased cancer risk. It seems to be a pretty common mutation for cells to slip into and it can be prompted by exposure to things as widespread and seemingly wholesome as sunlight or necessary for human life as sexual contact. So the idea that smoked meat or coffee could do the same thing . . . it's certainly plausible to me.
There are poorly constructed studies out there, to be sure and there are people who make their living spinning up these studies into clicks. At the same time, I figure that as much as we know that correlation is not always causation, the people doing these studies generally understand that as well and they are (if they're decent) accounting for that in their work.
I think we, as laypeople, often like to toss out that correlation isn't causation to discount studies and I don't know if that is a factor as often as we assume it is. I haven't read the multiple studies that went into creating this position paper, but I figure by the time the WHO gets around to classifying something as a class 1 carcinogen (as is the case with processed meats), there's probably something going on there.
At the same time, most of us already live lives where we decide to indulge in limited or not-so-limited enjoyment of substances linked to cancer. I consider myself to be a fairly cautious person healthwise, but I still sometimes skip sunscreen for short sun exposure, smoke tobacco from a hookah 1-2 times a year, and drink spirits. I can understand why someone might want to continue to enjoy processed meat even knowing and understanding that there is pretty good evidence it increases cancer risk and I don't consider that to be unusual behavior.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Other likely factors include the fat content, and the way it is processed or cooked; or because big meat eaters miss out on other protective foods such as fruit and vegetables or wholegrain cereals.
I've always felt that it has a lot more to do with the bolded. I think their tends to be a correlation between heavy meat eaters and a diet that is overall lacking in other nutrition (ie SAD)...particularly fruit and veg vs someone who, say, eats a lot of fish and is probably more likely to have a diet that is overall more healthful.
Me too. I think a lot of the correlation studies ignore things like that.0 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »Detritus_1965 wrote: »
Living also increases your chance of death by 100%.
Lol!!!!!0 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
I'm still waiting for them to do a study linking obesity and cancer and make it just as media worthy as they do all the other less significant factors.
They have already linked breast cancer and obesity. Directly correlated.0 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
I'm still waiting for them to do a study linking obesity and cancer and make it just as media worthy as they do all the other less significant factors.
They have already linked breast cancer and obesity. Directly correlated.
Understood, but when will the media jump on it (like they do so many issues) and exploit it so more people take notice and want to do something about it?0 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
I'm still waiting for them to do a study linking obesity and cancer and make it just as media worthy as they do all the other less significant factors.
They have already linked breast cancer and obesity. Directly correlated.
Understood, but when will the media jump on it (like they do so many issues) and exploit it so more people take notice and want to do something about it?
I learned about the link through the media, so I'm pretty sure it's already being covered.
Here is an New York Post article, for example: https://nypost.com/2018/01/26/this-single-stat-raises-your-risk-for-invasive-breast-cancer/
Reader's Digest also covered it: https://www.rd.com/health/conditions/habits-reduce-breast-cancer-risk/
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janejellyroll wrote: »Crafty_camper123 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
I'm still waiting for them to do a study linking obesity and cancer and make it just as media worthy as they do all the other less significant factors.
They have already linked breast cancer and obesity. Directly correlated.
Understood, but when will the media jump on it (like they do so many issues) and exploit it so more people take notice and want to do something about it?
I learned about the link through the media, so I'm pretty sure it's already being covered.
Here is an New York Post article, for example: https://nypost.com/2018/01/26/this-single-stat-raises-your-risk-for-invasive-breast-cancer/
Reader's Digest also covered it: https://www.rd.com/health/conditions/habits-reduce-breast-cancer-risk/
Yeah, I've seen that published in several sources. But maybe I just pay more attention since I'm an older woman with a family history of breast cancer.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »I have 0% colorectal cancer risk so bring on the bacon IIRC eating processed meat EVERY DAY raises your risk from 5% (the average person has 5% chance of getting crc) to 6% so it's not really that significant.
No colon? If you have one you are still at risk. That being said everything in moderation is usually key.
@cathipa yup and no rectum. I had a total proctocolectomy so I now have a Barbie Butt lol.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Other likely factors include the fat content, and the way it is processed or cooked; or because big meat eaters miss out on other protective foods such as fruit and vegetables or wholegrain cereals.
I've always felt that it has a lot more to do with the bolded. I think their tends to be a correlation between heavy meat eaters and a diet that is overall lacking in other nutrition (ie SAD)...particularly fruit and veg vs someone who, say, eats a lot of fish and is probably more likely to have a diet that is overall more healthful.
This makes the most sense to me...1 -
Crafty_camper123 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
People have been doing lots of cancer causing things for thousands of years. One potential factor is that, for much of human history, many people were dying of other causes because they could develop cancer. And for those who did manage to survive to an older age, cancer could also be a cause of death. Humans have been aware of cancer since at least 3,000 BCE (where it is described in ancient writing) and evidence from bones shows we've been getting it much longer than that.
Interesting. Since we know so much more about it now, it just seems like "everything" causes cancer these days. I know that's a little hyperbolic of me. But it appears that the list of known or potential cancer causing agents keep getting larger. And it's usually everyday sort of things like cell phones, radio waves or processed meats like ham and hot dogs. Most recently I read one about how coffee is now known in the state of California to potentially cause cancer..This explains it. The problem is the study was done on rodents (go figure they all are) at levels way higher than any human would consume.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/cooked-meats-fact-sheet
Kind of have to almost take these studies with a grain of salt, really. For those who are getting all these cancers who are being linked I often wonder what else is going on in thier lives that could have contributed? Correlation is not always causastion.
That being said, I suppose we should all enjoy what we like, but in moderation like everything in life, really. Something will get me eventually.
I'm still waiting for them to do a study linking obesity and cancer and make it just as media worthy as they do all the other less significant factors.
They have already linked breast cancer and obesity. Directly correlated.
You do understand that there is nothing about correlation that is direct, right? If something is a direct link to cause then is is causation not correlation. A small but important distinction.0
This discussion has been closed.
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