Facts or Hacks?

cwolfman13

bikecheryl wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

If I want nutritional advice, I want to talk to a licensed dietitian who has an advanced degree in that area.

If I want activity advice I want to talk to a trainer/coach who also has an advanced degree in exercise science or kinesiology

I agree to a point.

I think in this day and age we all have to do our own research, hard as it can be sometimes and be as informed as possible.

I've gone to all the people you've mentioned above... some have been wonderful.... some were walk away and don't look back scary.

Well, yes... you have to be discerning...i think that's a given.

But I do think most actual dieticians (Not nutritionists) and trainers who have education in exercise science and kinesiology and not just a certificate are usually pretty good... at least the ones I've come across.

4legsRbetterthan2

I am sure it depends on the person, but the chiropractor I went to was trying to get me to buy stuff for the HCG diet,....nope!

rhtexasgal

I got lucky ... my chiropractor is a registered dietician as well. She said that while adjustments, etc. help, that working on the inside is important too. She knows much more about eating plans than my doctor does. She makes my eyes glaze sometimes because she gets down to a chemical and cellular level about stuff. I just tell her ... in redneck language please!

Packerjohn

bikecheryl wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

If I want nutritional advice, I want to talk to a licensed dietitian who has an advanced degree in that area.

If I want activity advice I want to talk to a trainer/coach who also has an advanced degree in exercise science or kinesiology

I agree to a point.

I think in this day and age we all have to do our own research, hard as it can be sometimes and be as informed as possible.

I've gone to all the people you've mentioned above... some have been wonderful.... some were walk away and don't look back scary.

Yep and from what I see the legit ones are all directionally similar in their advice. Assuming a healthy individual, 80-90% of food from nutritionally dense foods,, mostly compound mines for strength training, etc.

ugofatcat

johnwelk wrote: »

mrsnattybulking wrote: »

My sister is a naturopath and they do a lot of the same schooling that MDs do, the main difference is pharmacology (MD) and she did study a lot of nutrition. She follows IIFYM 80/20 and recommends that to her clients who seek her help with fat loss; after excluding medical reasons for their being overweight.

Sorry, but naturopath education is vastly inferior and very different from a real medical education. First, just getting into med school is quite difficult, around a 5% acceptance rate with avg GPA of 3.7, nd school acceptance rate is 60-100% with avg GPA of 3.0. Second, pharmacology isn't the only main difference. nd's learn complete quackery such as acupuncture, ayurvedic medicine, and homeopathy. Homeopathy is the ultimate pseudoscience and is required by all US nd schools. They learn prescientific notions of disease and how the human body works. Another huge difference is that MDs need 3-4 years of internship doing clinical rounds treating sick patients and some go on to specialize and that requires another 2-4 years in fellowship before they can practice. As soon an nd graduates they can start to practice with no real clinical experience. That's quite scary.

I don't know about ayurvedic medicine or hemopathy but acupuncture is not quackery. It has been shown to help treat pain. If I was in pain, I would rather try acupuncture first before pain medications.
https://nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/introduction#hed3

crita50

I wouldn't trust a chiropractor with giving nutrition advice. I would trust the naturopath. If chiropractors get a similar education to MDs they may only have one class/unit on nutrition. If you see a naturopath research their credentials. Make sure they went to a top school, there are a few really good ones, and a lot of not so good ones. If they went to a good school of naturopathic medicine I would trust them.

johnslater461

ugofatcat wrote: »

johnwelk wrote: »

mrsnattybulking wrote: »

My sister is a naturopath and they do a lot of the same schooling that MDs do, the main difference is pharmacology (MD) and she did study a lot of nutrition. She follows IIFYM 80/20 and recommends that to her clients who seek her help with fat loss; after excluding medical reasons for their being overweight.

Sorry, but naturopath education is vastly inferior and very different from a real medical education. First, just getting into med school is quite difficult, around a 5% acceptance rate with avg GPA of 3.7, nd school acceptance rate is 60-100% with avg GPA of 3.0. Second, pharmacology isn't the only main difference. nd's learn complete quackery such as acupuncture, ayurvedic medicine, and homeopathy. Homeopathy is the ultimate pseudoscience and is required by all US nd schools. They learn prescientific notions of disease and how the human body works. Another huge difference is that MDs need 3-4 years of internship doing clinical rounds treating sick patients and some go on to specialize and that requires another 2-4 years in fellowship before they can practice. As soon an nd graduates they can start to practice with no real clinical experience. That's quite scary.

I don't know about ayurvedic medicine or hemopathy but acupuncture is not quackery. It has been shown to help treat pain. If I was in pain, I would rather try acupuncture first before pain medications.
https://nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/introduction#hed3

Acupuncture is nothing but placebo. It is no more effective than getting poked in random places with toothpicks

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/mediocre-expectations/

stanmann571

nutrofight wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of scientism in here.

In Ferro Veritas.

I'm From Missouri

johnwelk

ugofatcat wrote: »

johnwelk wrote: »

mrsnattybulking wrote: »

My sister is a naturopath and they do a lot of the same schooling that MDs do, the main difference is pharmacology (MD) and she did study a lot of nutrition. She follows IIFYM 80/20 and recommends that to her clients who seek her help with fat loss; after excluding medical reasons for their being overweight.

Sorry, but naturopath education is vastly inferior and very different from a real medical education. First, just getting into med school is quite difficult, around a 5% acceptance rate with avg GPA of 3.7, nd school acceptance rate is 60-100% with avg GPA of 3.0. Second, pharmacology isn't the only main difference. nd's learn complete quackery such as acupuncture, ayurvedic medicine, and homeopathy. Homeopathy is the ultimate pseudoscience and is required by all US nd schools. They learn prescientific notions of disease and how the human body works. Another huge difference is that MDs need 3-4 years of internship doing clinical rounds treating sick patients and some go on to specialize and that requires another 2-4 years in fellowship before they can practice. As soon an nd graduates they can start to practice with no real clinical experience. That's quite scary.

I don't know about ayurvedic medicine or hemopathy but acupuncture is not quackery. It has been shown to help treat pain. If I was in pain, I would rather try acupuncture first before pain medications.
https://nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture/introduction#hed3

Nope, acupuncture is pure quackery. It's theatrical placebo. It doesn't matter where you stick the needles, you can use toothpicks, and you dont even have to break skin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2832641/?tool=pmcentrez

All that really matters is that you believe in acupuncture.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4323559/

And that the acupuncturist is nice.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18390493

After thousands of studies, all pretty much saying the same thing, that acupuncture is no better than placebo, it's fair to say that acupuncture doesn't work.

ugofatcat

I appreciate those articles and I did learn some new things.

However, I do not see an issue with someone using acupuncture as a way to treat their back pain or other condition if they feel that it helps them and it is not harming them. If someone tells me they had so much back pain but started doing acupuncture and the pain went away, I am certainly not going to tell them that it’s a sham and quackery and that the only benefit is all in their head.

I understand the point you are trying to make is there is no benefit between the placebo and treatment. The point I am trying to make is that because people perceived their condition improved, it did, and isn’t that the whole goal of treatment? If someone really believes their condition improves, what would be the purpose of trying to convince someone it is quackery, their pain will come back and now we are back to square one? For this reason I don’t see acupuncture as quackery, yes I think a lot of the benefit is in someone’s head, but that doesn’t matter to me because as those studies you linked showed their conditions/pain improved. I can understand why you see it as quackery because there the placebo/treatment were so similar. We will have to agree to disagree.

I would take an issue with any chiropractor trying to sell expensive acupuncture treatments to people or harming someone with shoddy acupuncture. Unless a treatment is harming someone or bleeding them dry financially, I have no issue with people exploring alternative treatments if their current regime is not working.

I am also not surprised about the results in “Components of placebo effect: randomized controlled trial in patients with irritable bowel syndrome”. Health care professionals strive to develop a therapeutic relationship with their patients. If anything it should be a larger selling point for health care providers to treat patients with warmth, attention, and confidence because this is an easy intervention that will yield better outcomes.