Do you watch your sodium intake? Am I the only one with VERY horrid sodium levels in my diet?
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Sodium is something you should be concerned about only if you are hypertensive. Sort of like how sugar really only matters if you are diabetic. Personally I just turned the sodium tracker off because I didn't care.
Sodium is in balance with water. If you eat more sodium and drink more water that is totally fine. In fact if you drink more water you probably should eat more sodium. So the idea of tracking sodium as some independent thing when its really the ratio of water to sodium that matters is a bit silly in my opinion. Right now the way it is set up you could have someone drinking a lot of water (like a gallon) a day and having MFP telling them to limit their sodium even though they should probably be getting like 4x the normal daily suggested amount.
I'm a bit doubtful after two interesting papers by Titze et al, 2017. They found that a diet high in sodium raises glucocorticoid levels, which in return breaks down tissue to release water. Thus you don't hold onto more water by eating more salt but the water is created in situ. Basically what camels do when they don't get anything to drink: they break down the tissue in their humps to create water. Breaking down tissue though is not a good idea as you also lose muscle tissue.
That doesn't sound right to me at all.
Is these the papers you are refering to?
https://www.jci.org/articles/view/88530
https://www.jci.org/articles/view/88532
I haven't read the entire paper but I read the abstract and I don't really see how it supports the claim you made here. Since you read the paper can you point to where it states that muscle tissue is cannibalized to release water in people who have high salt diets? Also can you explain how someone who needs to literally digest their own tissues to balance out their sodium intake would continue to live? How would such a thing even be sustainable. Okay on day 1 you cannibilze your muscle tissue to release enough water to balance out the sodium you took in...which would have to be a substantial amount right, I mean like a kilogram worth.......what do you do on day 2? what about on day 100?
What I see this study talking about is hormonal control of water homeostasis under different sodium intake levels in a controlled enviornment, not destruction of tissue to free water to balance sodium.
The second paper mentions catabolic muscle wasting with sodium load in rats without a controlled diet, under conditions of free feeding. Is that what you are referring to?
Sorry, should not have posted yesterday. I was feeling completely miserable, and if I do I should stay off the net (currently being investigated for Addisons). Yes, those two papers. Canibalizing of tissue is only mentioned in a line somewhere as it was not the aim of these papers. as far as I understand it a high salt diet leads to high glucocorticoid levels. There are several papers that discuss the breakdown of tissue from glococorticoids (e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405525515000096). If tissue is broken down this way it releases the stored fluids. High salt diet reduces thirst and the cosmonauts in the first study were shown to drink less. However, they still peed out the same amounts of fluid, hence part of that had to be created in situ. The cosmonauts also reported feeling much more hungry on a high salt diet, which was explained wiht the boyd working hard to maintain fluid levels and breaking down tissue. Which I'd guess also has implications for the development of diabetes and the likes. Anyway.. still feeling miserable. Thus if my rambling doesn't make sense then sorry.1 -
crackpotbaby wrote: »Just a little head shake regarding all the patients I see who’s ‘blood pressure is fiiiine’ but have tortuous arteries or enlarged left heart ventricles indicative of chronic hypertension.
People have different sodium needs including some (plenty) with clinical need for more salt.
Most people though need far far less than modern diets provide them. That why we have population based guidelines.
Of course the guidelines aren’t suitable to all individuals but those that shrug them off because their blood pressure is fiiiine (right now) ... I can’t find the right words to articulate my thoughts on that.
Good point!
Everyone is fine and dandy right this minute whatever they're chosen way of eating/lifestyle... Until one day they're not. I'm a firm believer in prevention is better than cure.2 -
mom23mangos wrote: »My sodium levels are sky high. I don't care. I have very low blood pressure and frequently black out/see stars when standing up, so I can't imagine what it would be like if I ate a low sodium diet. I'm sure I retain a lot of water from it, but oh well.
I've been eating a lot of sodium for decades. When I was younger, and eating less of it, I used to black out/get dizzy when standing up.
I swapped out Sodium for Fiber.0 -
ladyreva78 wrote: »I have low blood pressure and start feeling horrible if my sodium intake drops below 2000. Around 3000 is my happy spot.
Means I have to add quite a bit of salt to my cooking post cooking: one member of my family has HBP and heart arrhythmias and the other one HBP and kidney insufficiency. Any cooking I do (which is pretty much most these days) has to be low sodium...)
I kept on passing out at the slightest movement. Doc ordered some tests and prescribed a higher sodium diet.
After my mom got hospitalized twice for low sodium I keep an eye on mine. My cardiologist yelled at me for not eating enough salt. Trying to diet and eat salt seems so counterproductive to me.
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no but i generally try to avoid processed food, though i know even what i do consume has plenty in it0
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Christine_72 wrote: »I rarely go over the 2300mg recommended here. I don't have blood pressure issues, but i do pack on water if go too far over. Yesterday i was at 3122mg (822 over), and this morning I'm nearly 4lbs up on the scale. I'd be a walking water balloon if i went thousands over.
I rarely eat packaged foods, so it's easy to keep sodium on an even keel.
Yeah.. I ate 1300 over and the scale showed 4 pounds more. Pathetic..lol0 -
I'm a stickler with sodium. It probably goes over 3000 about once every 4-5 months. On average I have 1200-2300 mg per day. Our blood pressure may be fine now, but too much sodium over time can change that for when we're older. Gotta think about the big picture.2
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Christine_72 wrote: »I rarely go over the 2300mg recommended here. I don't have blood pressure issues, but i do pack on water if go too far over. Yesterday i was at 3122mg (822 over), and this morning I'm nearly 4lbs up on the scale. I'd be a walking water balloon if i went thousands over.
I rarely eat packaged foods, so it's easy to keep sodium on an even keel.
Yeah.. I ate 1300 over and the scale showed 4 pounds more. Pathetic..lol
Lol yeah it is! I wonder if we consumed that much over every day if we would eventually drop the water, or would we be perpetually water logged and always weigh more than we really are??1 -
I don't pay attention to sodium because I don't care and it doesn't matter to me. Looking at my reports, the days I've logged from Monday of this week are accurate and I got over 3000 mg sodium 4 of those days.0
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Christine_72 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I rarely go over the 2300mg recommended here. I don't have blood pressure issues, but i do pack on water if go too far over. Yesterday i was at 3122mg (822 over), and this morning I'm nearly 4lbs up on the scale. I'd be a walking water balloon if i went thousands over.
I rarely eat packaged foods, so it's easy to keep sodium on an even keel.
Yeah.. I ate 1300 over and the scale showed 4 pounds more. Pathetic..lol
Lol yeah it is! I wonder if we consumed that much over every day if we would eventually drop the water, or would we be perpetually water logged and always weigh more than we really are??
I always wondered that as well.0 -
Verity1111 wrote: »Because I seriously probably double the recommended intake and I only eat 1200-1500 calories. I rarely am below 3,000 and I have hit 4,500-5,000 a lot. Lol. My blood tests etc are all good. Should I worry about it or chill since I don't have any bad signs from it when I see my dr? Also, am I the only person with this issue? I assume not but it's always nice to know lol. It is all from sauces or prepackaged stuff, cheese, etc. I don't use actual table salt sprinkled on my food.
I have a similar problem. I am always over on sodium, not that high unless I eat out but still high.0 -
I just noticed how high my sodium intake was. It is awful. Fat free salad dressing is very bad and full of sodium.0
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Well then this went further than expected lol... I drink a LOT of water so I am not worried about my body not having enough of that.... I mean a lot. And tea. but water usually and more than the recommended amount for sure so if that is somehow related to balancing sodium it makes sense why it might not be affecting me as much. I appreciate all of the input but I am doing a very big assignment for Biology so it would be difficult to reply to each comment individually Lol0
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The eating plan i am on allows only the natural sodium in whole foods. It is a real eye opener...the weight loss is so much faster. I've learned how to season and cook my food in better ways, i feel incredible. Sodium in our diet and processed foods is just as bad as HFCS.14
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elisa123gal wrote: »The eating plan i am on allows only the natural sodium in whole foods. It is a real eye opener...the weight loss is so much faster. I've learned how to season and cook my food in better ways, i feel incredible. Sodium in our diet and processed foods is just as bad as HFCS.
Sodium is a natural product though, and an important one as well. Sodium and potassium are connected in the body, and one is necessary for the other to do it's magic.
Everyone is different, but if I were to eat like that I'd be sick, not able to stand up without fainging, and confused with muscle weakness for most of the time.0 -
For those of us who have high(er) sodium intakes:
As @Aaron_K123 said its a balance of sodium/water...
I am a person who easily retains water thanks to her sodium. Obviously, just being a human being who is unique from everyone else is the biggest variable...but how much water to sodium balance should there be?
As in, are there ratios, or units of measure as a guideline to help balance this out?
(i,e.: Mgs sodium =/= Oz of water?) Or is this a stupid question? =/0 -
MommyMeggo wrote: »For those of us who have high(er) sodium intakes:
As @Aaron_K123 said its a balance of sodium/water...
I am a person who easily retains water thanks to her sodium. Obviously, just being a human being who is unique from everyone else is the biggest variable...but how much water to sodium balance should there be?
As in, are there ratios, or units of measure as a guideline to help balance this out?
(i,e.: Mgs sodium =/= Oz of water?) Or is this a stupid question? =/
It is not always about how much water you drink though drinking water will definitely help flush out some of the sodium. Potassium intake also plays a roll. There is no definitive number however as to how much potassium you need to help counter the sodium. They use the number 3500 for most people but for someone with HBP I have seen the number 4700.
There are just too many variables for them to determine an exact level of anything so they set averages. Also I would suspect that it also depends on the health of an individual.
I understand about water retention and sodium...I look down and my ankles have swollen over the tops of my socks...then I know...too much sodium!1 -
Mmm odd.
I've just been going over my food dairy. And there seems to be a strong correlation for me with low (low for me) sodium and binge episodes. Every time I've had a binge episode these past few months, it was preceded by several low sodium days (1500mg and below). And the foods I binged on were usually high sodium ones (crackers, cheese...). Calories, protein and fibre were all adequate (moderate deficit, 1 g Protein per kg body weight and 30+ g fiber), reason why I was a bit confused as to why I couldn't seem to stop myself from eating.
Is that even possible? Low sodium causing a binge episode?
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ladyreva78 wrote: »Mmm odd.
I've just been going over my food dairy. And there seems to be a strong correlation for me with low (low for me) sodium and binge episodes. Every time I've had a binge episode these past few months, it was preceded by several low sodium days (1500mg and below). And the foods I binged on were usually high sodium ones (crackers, cheese...). Calories, protein and fibre were all adequate (moderate deficit, 1 g Protein per kg body weight and 30+ g fiber), reason why I was a bit confused as to why I couldn't seem to stop myself from eating.
Is that even possible? Low sodium causing a binge episode?
IDK However, I do have cravings for salty crunchy things when I try to reduce my sodium. I am supposed to be under 1500mg because of HBP. Sometimes I succeed sometimes I don't. I love cheese and crackers and Asian foods...bad combinations when I need to be low sodium.0 -
elisa123gal wrote: »The eating plan i am on allows only the natural sodium in whole foods. It is a real eye opener...the weight loss is so much faster. I've learned how to season and cook my food in better ways, i feel incredible. Sodium in our diet and processed foods is just as bad as HFCS.
What's the calorie difference between this and how you used to eat?1 -
MommyMeggo wrote: »For those of us who have high(er) sodium intakes:
As @Aaron_K123 said its a balance of sodium/water...
I am a person who easily retains water thanks to her sodium. Obviously, just being a human being who is unique from everyone else is the biggest variable...but how much water to sodium balance should there be?
As in, are there ratios, or units of measure as a guideline to help balance this out?
(i,e.: Mgs sodium =/= Oz of water?) Or is this a stupid question? =/
Not a stupid question but not an easy one either...I wouldn't presume to give someone what amounts to medical advice over a forum on the basis of some math.
Now...that said, I did try to use some logic with some assumptions and math to sort of figure that out in my post on sodium...concentration of sodium per liter of water. At the risk of oversimplifying your cells are filled with liquid at a particular ionic concentration. Cells are permeable to water but not ions so it is important that the liquid outside of your cells supplied by your circulatory system has an equivalent ionic concentration. If the ion concentration is higher in your blood water will leave your cells to come to equilibrium essentially drying them out...if the ion concentration is lower then water will flow into your cells and at the extreme cause them to lyse, or break.
So logically your body regulates the ion concentration homeostatically to keep it the same largely through sodium retention or excretion. So ideally the amount of water you drink compared to the amount of ions you invest dom in mated by sodium should equal the ideal ionic concentration of your cells.
Drink more water and you should take in more sodium, drink less water you should take in less sodium.1 -
I'm always over my salt intake. I'm very healthy besides being overweight and I do Add salt to about half the food I eat and It doesn't really have any adverse effects. I do drink 9 Glasses of water a day also
My brother is the same way 0
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