Trap/hex bar deadlift in beginner program
MegaMooseEsq
Posts: 3,118 Member
I've been doing the A Workout Routine beginner program at home with adjustable dumbbells for the past five weeks. I'm about to max out my dumbells on the deadlift and will max out on goblet squats shortly after. My goal is to begin barbell training (leaning toward SL 5 x 5) in June when finances loosen up and I can afford a few sessions with a trainer as well as a full home setup. I've been watching Craigs' List but even used power racks aren't cheap, plus I need a short one to fit in my basement and I haven't seen one of those yet for any price. I understand that technically one doesn't need a rack to do barbell squats, but I feel like it would be an unwise option to go without, and my spouse would probably kill me since I work out alone.
After some research I've decided to pick up a trap bar and use that for the next couple of months so that I can continue to progress, even if it isn't optimal. My question is this: understanding that the trap deadlift lands somewhere between a barbell squat and deadlift, would it make sense to replace both my squats and deadlifts with the trap deadlift and do that three times a week rather than attempting to differentiate the lifts between my two workouts? (I'd be perfectly happy to keep doing goblet squats, but that's where finances become a problem again.) Another thought I've had is alternating between trap deadlifts and farmers' walks, although I'm not 100% convinced I have enough space for the latter.
For reference, here's the AWR program:
Workout A
Squats: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Rows: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Workout B
Deadlifts: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
Pull-Ups (I've substituted TRX inverted rows): 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Overhead Shoulder Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Thanks!
After some research I've decided to pick up a trap bar and use that for the next couple of months so that I can continue to progress, even if it isn't optimal. My question is this: understanding that the trap deadlift lands somewhere between a barbell squat and deadlift, would it make sense to replace both my squats and deadlifts with the trap deadlift and do that three times a week rather than attempting to differentiate the lifts between my two workouts? (I'd be perfectly happy to keep doing goblet squats, but that's where finances become a problem again.) Another thought I've had is alternating between trap deadlifts and farmers' walks, although I'm not 100% convinced I have enough space for the latter.
For reference, here's the AWR program:
Workout A
Squats: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Rows: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Workout B
Deadlifts: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
Pull-Ups (I've substituted TRX inverted rows): 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Overhead Shoulder Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Thanks!
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Replies
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »I've been doing the A Workout Routine beginner program at home with adjustable dumbbells for the past five weeks. I'm about to max out my dumbells on the deadlift and will max out on goblet squats shortly after. My goal is to begin barbell training (leaning toward SL 5 x 5) in June when finances loosen up and I can afford a few sessions with a trainer as well as a full home setup. I've been watching Craigs' List but even used power racks aren't cheap, plus I need a short one to fit in my basement and I haven't seen one of those yet for any price. I understand that technically one doesn't need a rack to do barbell squats, but I feel like it would be an unwise option to go without, and my spouse would probably kill me since I work out alone.
After some research I've decided to pick up a trap bar and use that for the next couple of months so that I can continue to progress, even if it isn't optimal. My question is this: understanding that the trap deadlift lands somewhere between a barbell squat and deadlift, would it make sense to replace both my squats and deadlifts with the trap deadlift and do that three times a week rather than attempting to differentiate the lifts between my two workouts? (I'd be perfectly happy to keep doing goblet squats, but that's where finances become a problem again.) Another thought I've had is alternating between trap deadlifts and farmers' walks, although I'm not 100% convinced I have enough space for the latter.
For reference, here's the AWR program:
Workout A
Squats: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Rows: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Workout B
Deadlifts: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
Pull-Ups (I've substituted TRX inverted rows): 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Overhead Shoulder Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Thanks!
IF you're moderately handy, there's no reason you couldn't build one for a couple hundred dollars worth of 4x4s.
Just make sure you follow good plans and properly level it.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »I've been doing the A Workout Routine beginner program at home with adjustable dumbbells for the past five weeks. I'm about to max out my dumbells on the deadlift and will max out on goblet squats shortly after. My goal is to begin barbell training (leaning toward SL 5 x 5) in June when finances loosen up and I can afford a few sessions with a trainer as well as a full home setup. I've been watching Craigs' List but even used power racks aren't cheap, plus I need a short one to fit in my basement and I haven't seen one of those yet for any price. I understand that technically one doesn't need a rack to do barbell squats, but I feel like it would be an unwise option to go without, and my spouse would probably kill me since I work out alone.
After some research I've decided to pick up a trap bar and use that for the next couple of months so that I can continue to progress, even if it isn't optimal. My question is this: understanding that the trap deadlift lands somewhere between a barbell squat and deadlift, would it make sense to replace both my squats and deadlifts with the trap deadlift and do that three times a week rather than attempting to differentiate the lifts between my two workouts? (I'd be perfectly happy to keep doing goblet squats, but that's where finances become a problem again.) Another thought I've had is alternating between trap deadlifts and farmers' walks, although I'm not 100% convinced I have enough space for the latter.
For reference, here's the AWR program:
Workout A
Squats: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Rows: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Workout B
Deadlifts: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
Pull-Ups (I've substituted TRX inverted rows): 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Overhead Shoulder Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Thanks!
IF you're moderately handy, there's no reason you couldn't build one for a couple hundred dollars worth of 4x4s.
Just make sure you follow good plans and properly level it.
Sadly, I'm afraid that I am in no way moderately handy, and my spouse is possibly worse. I'm also embarrassed to say that I'd have to buy a hammer, along with (presumably?) some other tools I may or may not be able to name. We all have our strengths and weaknesses...
ETA: My toolkit.2 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »I've been doing the A Workout Routine beginner program at home with adjustable dumbbells for the past five weeks. I'm about to max out my dumbells on the deadlift and will max out on goblet squats shortly after. My goal is to begin barbell training (leaning toward SL 5 x 5) in June when finances loosen up and I can afford a few sessions with a trainer as well as a full home setup. I've been watching Craigs' List but even used power racks aren't cheap, plus I need a short one to fit in my basement and I haven't seen one of those yet for any price. I understand that technically one doesn't need a rack to do barbell squats, but I feel like it would be an unwise option to go without, and my spouse would probably kill me since I work out alone.
After some research I've decided to pick up a trap bar and use that for the next couple of months so that I can continue to progress, even if it isn't optimal. My question is this: understanding that the trap deadlift lands somewhere between a barbell squat and deadlift, would it make sense to replace both my squats and deadlifts with the trap deadlift and do that three times a week rather than attempting to differentiate the lifts between my two workouts? (I'd be perfectly happy to keep doing goblet squats, but that's where finances become a problem again.) Another thought I've had is alternating between trap deadlifts and farmers' walks, although I'm not 100% convinced I have enough space for the latter.
For reference, here's the AWR program:
Workout A
Squats: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Bench Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Rows: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Workout B
Deadlifts: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
Pull-Ups (I've substituted TRX inverted rows): 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Overhead Shoulder Press: 3 sets of 8-10 reps
Thanks!
IF you're moderately handy, there's no reason you couldn't build one for a couple hundred dollars worth of 4x4s.
Just make sure you follow good plans and properly level it.
Sadly, I'm afraid that I am in no way moderately handy, and my spouse is possibly worse. I'm also embarrassed to say that I'd have to buy a hammer, along with (presumably?) some other tools I may or may not be able to name. We all have our strengths and weaknesses...
ETA: My toolkit.
Actually, a hammer isn't on the list of needed parts. A drill and a saw OTOH
I took a swing at designing and building one a few years ago. It went well except I forgot to level it. Eventually we tore it down......1 -
A trap bar lift is not a suitable substitute for straight bar back squat. Nothing really is. If you don't have room for a rack, you can buy a pair squat stands w/safety bars for around $150-200. Troll the Net for them.
The trap bar is a suitable alternative to a standard straight bar deadlift IF you do not use the raised handles and lift from the floor as you would w/a standard deadlift. Lifting w/the handles is what makes it a quasi-DL/SQT but it is not as good as either.
That said, if you don't have room or the money for a rack, a 7 ft bar and/or stsnds, a small chrome trsp bar is better than nothing.
The trap bar is also good for farmer's walks. Easy to hold and handle but not as difficult (or beneficial) as a "true" FW. Heavy dumbbells or FW handles are better because it requires more effort (particularly core strength) to balance and control the weight when held separately in both hands.
You can buy used trap bars pretty cheaply. No need to build one which wouldn't be as good as a metal one anyway.
I bought a smaller chrome one for just $25 because it was all rusted. It looked awful but was still functional. Just needed some navy jelly, a wire bursh and elbow grease to make it look good again.
Also bought a, huge 75#/7 ft rackable early Rogue model w/o raised handles for just $100 (retailed for near $300). It's a beast!
You just have to keep an eye out for one on Craigslist, eBay, flea markets, garage sales and another sources for used goods near you.
Good luck!
1 -
A trap bar lift is not a suitable substitute for a back squat. Nothing really is. If you don't have room for a rack, you can buy/build a pair squat stands w/safety bars for around $150-200. Check on the Net.
It is a suitable alternative to a standard deadlift IF you do not use the raised handles and lift from the floor as you would w/a standard deadlift. Lifting w/the handles is what makes it a quasi-DL/SQT but it is not as good as either.
The trap bar is great for farmer's walks. Easy to hold and handle but not as difficult (or beneficial) as a "true" FW. Heavy dumbbells or FW handles are better because it requires more effort (particularly core strength) to balance and control the weight when held separately in both hands.
You can buy used trap bars pretty cheaply. No need to build one which wouldn't be as good as a metal one anyway.
I bought a smaller chrome one for just $25 because it was all rusted. It looked awful but was still functional. Just needed some navy jelly, a wire bursh and elbow grease to make it look good again.
Also bought a, huge 75#/7 ft rackable early Rogue model w/o raised handles for just $75 (retailed for near $300). It's a beast!
You just have to keep an eye out for one on Craigslist, eBay, flea markets, garage sales and another souces for used goods near you.
Good luck!
Thanks, that's very helpful. I might not be any good at building (I think Stan was suggesting to build a rack?) but I am pretty capable at cleaning/restoring, so I'll continue to keep an eye out.0 -
Trap bar deadlifts are a fine exercise but don't really stress the quads as good as the back squat.
You can do deadlifts with a barbell or a trap bar, it doesn't really matter unless you plan to get into powerlifting.
If you have maxed out goblet squats, switch to bulgarian split squats.1 -
Trap bar deadlifts are a fine exercise but don't really stress the quads as good as the back squat.
You can do deadlifts with a barbell or a trap bar, it doesn't really matter unless you plan to get into powerlifting.
If you have maxed out goblet squats, switch to bulgarian split squats.
That could be a good temporary solution, thank you! I'm also thinking about buying an olympic dumbbell handle and enough plates to continue goblets, as my adjustables only went up to 24 lbs/hand and I'd need the plates eventually anyhow. It sounds like the trap bar should do me well for the DLs for now.1 -
No one here apparently realizes trap bar can be used for hack squats...get a board to stand on/make a deficit or put some plates under your heels. Possibly one of the best & underrated quad exercises. I am very jealous you have a trap bar!0
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »No one here apparently realizes trap bar can be used for hack squats...get a board to stand on/make a deficit or put some plates under your heels. Possibly one of the best & underrated quad exercises. I am very jealous you have a trap bar!
I have read about doing squats with the trap bar, but it looks like it's an over-the-shoulder hold that I'd need a rack for, at least for set-up and probably for safety?
ETA: My brain skipped over the "hack" part of "hack squat" there, oops. I'll have to do some reading on that.
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »No one here apparently realizes trap bar can be used for hack squats...get a board to stand on/make a deficit or put some plates under your heels. Possibly one of the best & underrated quad exercises. I am very jealous you have a trap bar!
The hack squat was not mentioned previously because it wasn't relevant to the OP's original inquiry. So, I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up.
IMO, it's a specialized variation of a squat that is far beyond the OP's needs and most other people's concern apart from bodybuilders who want to add more "pop" to their quads by focusing more stress on the vastus medialis (the tear drop muscle above the knee).
Personally, I'd rather use a hack squat machine to work on that than a trap bar or barbell, but that is another matter.
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »No one here apparently realizes trap bar can be used for hack squats...get a board to stand on/make a deficit or put some plates under your heels. Possibly one of the best & underrated quad exercises. I am very jealous you have a trap bar!
The hack squat was not mentioned previously because it wasn't relevant to the OP's original inquiry. So, I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up.
IMO, it's a specialized variation of a squat that is far beyond the OP's needs and most other people's concern apart from bodybuilders who want to add more "pop" to their quads by focusing more stress on the vastus medialis (the tear drop muscle above the knee).
Personally, I'd rather use a hack squat machine to work on that than a trap bar or barbell, but that is another matter.
Thanks for the clarification - having spent the morning doing some reading on hack squats, I'd agree. I'm thinking sticking to goblets or switching to the BSS makes the most sense for now. The main reason I don't want to look for a used squat stand as you suggested earlier is that I don't want to spend $100-200 on something I'd be able to upgrade in June (I've got my eye on this girl, which of course I'd be thrilled to find used).0 -
A trap bar lift is not a suitable substitute for straight bar back squat. Nothing really is. If you don't have room for a rack, you can buy a pair squat stands w/safety bars for around $150-200. Troll the Net for them.
The trap bar is a suitable alternative to a standard straight bar deadlift IF you do not use the raised handles and lift from the floor as you would w/a standard deadlift. Lifting w/the handles is what makes it a quasi-DL/SQT but it is not as good as either.
That said, if you don't have room or the money for a rack, a 7 ft bar and/or stsnds, a small chrome trsp bar is better than nothing.
The trap bar is also good for farmer's walks. Easy to hold and handle but not as difficult (or beneficial) as a "true" FW. Heavy dumbbells or FW handles are better because it requires more effort (particularly core strength) to balance and control the weight when held separately in both hands.
You can buy used trap bars pretty cheaply. No need to build one which wouldn't be as good as a metal one anyway.
I bought a smaller chrome one for just $25 because it was all rusted. It looked awful but was still functional. Just needed some navy jelly, a wire bursh and elbow grease to make it look good again.
Also bought a, huge 75#/7 ft rackable early Rogue model w/o raised handles for just $100 (retailed for near $300). It's a beast!
You just have to keep an eye out for one on Craigslist, eBay, flea markets, garage sales and another sources for used goods near you.
Good luck!
Why isn't a trap bar good for deadlifts? Just curious, I've used trap bar for deadlifts and find it much more comfortable and seems to provide similar benefits of the exercise?0 -
A trap bar lift is not a suitable substitute for straight bar back squat. Nothing really is. If you don't have room for a rack, you can buy a pair squat stands w/safety bars for around $150-200. Troll the Net for them.
The trap bar is a suitable alternative to a standard straight bar deadlift IF you do not use the raised handles and lift from the floor as you would w/a standard deadlift. Lifting w/the handles is what makes it a quasi-DL/SQT but it is not as good as either.
That said, if you don't have room or the money for a rack, a 7 ft bar and/or stsnds, a small chrome trsp bar is better than nothing.
The trap bar is also good for farmer's walks. Easy to hold and handle but not as difficult (or beneficial) as a "true" FW. Heavy dumbbells or FW handles are better because it requires more effort (particularly core strength) to balance and control the weight when held separately in both hands.
You can buy used trap bars pretty cheaply. No need to build one which wouldn't be as good as a metal one anyway.
I bought a smaller chrome one for just $25 because it was all rusted. It looked awful but was still functional. Just needed some navy jelly, a wire bursh and elbow grease to make it look good again.
Also bought a, huge 75#/7 ft rackable early Rogue model w/o raised handles for just $100 (retailed for near $300). It's a beast!
You just have to keep an eye out for one on Craigslist, eBay, flea markets, garage sales and another sources for used goods near you.
Good luck!
Why isn't a trap bar good for deadlifts? Just curious, I've used trap bar for deadlifts and find it much more comfortable and seems to provide similar benefits of the exercise?
Re-read my post.
I said that a trap bar lift is not a suitable substitute for a barbell back SQUAT. The reason is obvious.
I also said that it IS a suitable replacement for a straight barbell DEADLIFT provided you do NOT use the raised handles, because doing so cheats the lift.
The height at which you grab the trap bar on the floor should be same height as for a regular deadlift, so that the depth of your hip/butt at the start if the lift is the same.
If you start higher w/the raised handles on the trap bar, the lift is easier (because the harder initial part of the lift is bypassed) and you are not getting the full benefit of the lift.
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »No one here apparently realizes trap bar can be used for hack squats...get a board to stand on/make a deficit or put some plates under your heels. Possibly one of the best & underrated quad exercises. I am very jealous you have a trap bar!
The hack squat was not mentioned previously because it wasn't relevant to the OP's original inquiry. So, I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up.
IMO, it's a specialized variation of a squat that is far beyond the OP's needs and most other people's concern apart from bodybuilders who want to add more "pop" to their quads by focusing more stress on the vastus medialis (the tear drop muscle above the knee).
Personally, I'd rather use a hack squat machine to work on that than a trap bar or barbell, but that is another matter.
Thanks for the clarification - having spent the morning doing some reading on hack squats, I'd agree. I'm thinking sticking to goblets or switching to the BSS makes the most sense for now. The main reason I don't want to look for a used squat stand as you suggested earlier is that I don't want to spend $100-200 on something I'd be able to upgrade in June (I've got my eye on this girl, which of course I'd be thrilled to find used).
That pair of Rogue squat stand would be an awesome purchase!
Doubt you'd find one used but maybe you'll get lucky.
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »No one here apparently realizes trap bar can be used for hack squats...get a board to stand on/make a deficit or put some plates under your heels. Possibly one of the best & underrated quad exercises. I am very jealous you have a trap bar!
The hack squat was not mentioned previously because it wasn't relevant to the OP's original inquiry. So, I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up.
IMO, it's a specialized variation of a squat that is far beyond the OP's needs and most other people's concern apart from bodybuilders who want to add more "pop" to their quads by focusing more stress on the vastus medialis (the tear drop muscle above the knee).
Personally, I'd rather use a hack squat machine to work on that than a trap bar or barbell, but that is another matter.
Thanks for the clarification - having spent the morning doing some reading on hack squats, I'd agree. I'm thinking sticking to goblets or switching to the BSS makes the most sense for now. The main reason I don't want to look for a used squat stand as you suggested earlier is that I don't want to spend $100-200 on something I'd be able to upgrade in June (I've got my eye on this girl, which of course I'd be thrilled to find used).
That pair of Rogue squat stand would be an awesome purchase!
Doubt you'd find one used but maybe you'll get lucky.
I kid you not, I found one on CL just a couple of days ago, but (not surprisingly) it had already sold. It wasn’t an enormously deep discount, especially since I’d have to rent a truck and they hadn’t bought the safety arms, but still. I suspect most people buying Rogue equipment know the value of what they have, but I’m keeping my eyes peeled!0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »No one here apparently realizes trap bar can be used for hack squats...get a board to stand on/make a deficit or put some plates under your heels. Possibly one of the best & underrated quad exercises. I am very jealous you have a trap bar!
The hack squat was not mentioned previously because it wasn't relevant to the OP's original inquiry. So, I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up.
IMO, it's a specialized variation of a squat that is far beyond the OP's needs and most other people's concern apart from bodybuilders who want to add more "pop" to their quads by focusing more stress on the vastus medialis (the tear drop muscle above the knee).
Personally, I'd rather use a hack squat machine to work on that than a trap bar or barbell, but that is another matter.
Thanks for the clarification - having spent the morning doing some reading on hack squats, I'd agree. I'm thinking sticking to goblets or switching to the BSS makes the most sense for now. The main reason I don't want to look for a used squat stand as you suggested earlier is that I don't want to spend $100-200 on something I'd be able to upgrade in June (I've got my eye on this girl, which of course I'd be thrilled to find used).
That pair of Rogue squat stand would be an awesome purchase!
Doubt you'd find one used but maybe you'll get lucky.
I kid you not, I found one on CL just a couple of days ago, but (not surprisingly) it had already sold. It wasn’t an enormously deep discount, especially since I’d have to rent a truck and they hadn’t bought the safety arms, but still. I suspect most people buying Rogue equipment know the value of what they have, but I’m keeping my eyes peeled!
Yeah, you have to be quick to get that kind of equipment.
Helps to have a truck (I do) but you can usually arrange pickup up later, as long as you have cash in hand.
My best single purchase was an eliteFTS safety squat bar which greatly improved my ability to squat heavier weight.
Also bought a Rogue mutipurpose bar but it was so unwieldly that I ended up just attaching it to the top of my rack to use for pullups; it's very good for that
And, the Rogue trap bar that I bought is so huge and heavy that I seldom use it and use the smaller chrome one that I restored instead.
There are several other examples of things that I bought but don't use but I won't bore you w/them.
Have the space and don't need the money, so I just keep the gear that I don't use often just in case I want/need to use them in the future.
I think a lot of purchasers of Rogue (and similar quality lifting) gear who end up selling do so not because they don't know the value of what they've got (as indicated by the high resale prices) but simply because they need the money, have to move or change their workout objectives but, generally, I think they resist sell as long as possible until they have no other choice but to do so.
At least that has been my experience in dealing the sellers of the gear I've purchased.
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