Interesting Article on 4 Strength Standards before advancing to Other Movements

Packerjohn

Interesting article:

1 – 25 Goblet Squats with 50% Bodyweight
Before you graduate to barbell squats, you should be able to goblet squat to parallel using a dumbbell or kettlebell for 25 unbroken reps. It's a test of relative strength, which means it'll show you whether or not you're strong for your size.

2 – Eight Strict Pull-Ups
Can you do eight strict pull-ups? You should be able to before you ever think about doing more direct arm work. There's no better relative strength test than the strict pull-up, and there's no reason to do direct arm work if you can't.

3 – Carry Two Times Bodyweight for 30 Seconds
There's no need to do direct core work if you can't carry double your bodyweight for 30 seconds.

4 – Ten Perfect Push-Ups
Can you do 10 perfect bodyweight push-ups? If not, then you haven't earned the right to bench press.

Complete article: https://www.t-nation.com/training/4-tests-every-lifter-should-be-able-to-pass

To me, #4 10 perfect bodyweight pushups before progressing to bench press is a significantly lower bar to hit than the other metrics mentioned.

AnvilHead

About the kind of macho bluster I’d expect from t-nation.

So there goes every beginning strength training program ever.....

Gisel2015

I admit that I didn't read the whole article, just what you posted but in may opinion is rubbish! I am about 101lbs and to carry or holding 202lbs for even a second is a sure way to damage my back and shoulders.

If somebody can do it, then more power to them; but I have read in the forums that many ladies have trouble doing full push ups but they can bench press a good amount of wt.

Okiludy

How did I know it would be from Rusin?

This is my opinion and might be different from others.

There is absolutely no reason to not use a barbell from day 1. It not necessary but you sure as hell don’t need to graduate to it. Even more so that the movement is different on many of these lifts. Sounds smart to learn a movement pattern just to screw you up in the next.

Rusin writes stupid “functional fitness” crap often. I am relatively strong and didn’t follow a single thing he wrote on purpose. In fact I would actively avoid most of what he writes.

Here is an off the wall idea. As a beginner follow a known good novice program. Follow it as close as possible for as long as possible. You will get strong, even more so if that program is based off compound lifts.

mutantspicy

I know people who have lifting their whole lives that can't do 8 strict pull ups from a dead hang. I can do 30 from 3/4 but maybe 6 from a dead hang, so I'm not allowed to do hammer curls or tri extensions. And you're going compare that to 10 push ups. Oh if you can lift twice your body weight, you don't need to work on core. I think I can pull off the goblet squat challenge, but that has literally zero to do with my ability to back squats with perfect form. This is biggest complete pile of non sense, I've ever heard.

DrifterBear

One of these things is not like the others... How does that list end with 10 push-ups? And why can't someone start with just a bar?

sgt1372

Nothing wrong w/being able to do these 4 things but they're riduculous standards to serve as a prerequisite b4 doing anything else.

There are so many people starting out who can't even do one strict pullup or pushup (let alone 8 or 10) that they'd never even begin lifting if they had to meet such requirements.

AnvilHead

For #3, maybe he meant to say there's no need to do core work if you *can* carry double your bodyweight for 30 seconds.

If I could walk around for 30 seconds carrying 400 pounds, I'd say my core was already pretty freaking solid. Not to mention forearms like Popeye and the grip strength of a gorilla.

Sometimes I think t-nation is actually a satire page - the meathead equivalent of theonion.com

concordancia

Uh, shouldn't you be doing more work in order to be able to carry twice your body weight without ending up in the hospital?

Packerjohn

concordancia wrote: »

Uh, shouldn't you be doing more work in order to be able to carry twice your body weight without ending up in the hospital?

To be honest believe he's saying work up to that with lighter carries before doing isolated "core" work

Unknown

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comptonelizabeth

Ok, compared to all the old timers on here I am pretty clueless. I don't know about the exact science of this but, anecdotally, my personal experience is that I launched quickly into the SL 5x5 program as an almost complete novice. I ended up injuring myself quite badly and my doctor referred me to a physiotherapist. She had me going right back to basics with bodyweight exercises and working on form. Her assessment was that I lacked sufficient strength to follow the program in the way it's designed to be followed which put extra strain on joints, tendons and muscles. Recovery has been a long slow process

Packerjohn

sgt1372 wrote: »

Nothing wrong w/being able to do these 4 things but they're riduculous standards to serve as a prerequisite b4 doing anything else.

There are so many people starting out who can't even do one strict pullup or pushup (let alone 8 or 10) that they'd never even begin lifting if they had to meet such requirements.

To be intellectually honest, he's not saying don't do resistance work, just use what he considers the appropriate tool (in the case of pushups one's body) before external resistance.

mreichard

My son is a tall, skinny 16 year old. He had coaches telling him forever to develop "natural strength" with push-ups. Being a kid, he cheated on form and never got any stronger. He couldn't do 10 perfect form push ups. He started SL 5x5 a couple of weeks ago with an empty bar. He's up to easily doing 5x5@95# for bench press and bummed to be not adding weight faster. He recently tried some push-ups just to see what he could do, and did 20 with perfect form. I think it's way easier to get stronger with a barbell than body weight.

Okiludy

Packerjohn wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

Nothing wrong w/being able to do these 4 things but they're riduculous standards to serve as a prerequisite b4 doing anything else.

There are so many people starting out who can't even do one strict pullup or pushup (let alone 8 or 10) that they'd never even begin lifting if they had to meet such requirements.

To be intellectually honest, he's not saying don't do resistance work, just use what he considers the appropriate tool (in the case of pushups one's body) before external resistance.

But why is that better at than a loaded barbell? You can hurt yourself either way. Resistance training can be incrementally loaded efficiently and can be tailored to fitness levels easier than a body weight program. An obese person would likely be able to do this yardstick easier if they trained in weighted resistance first.

not_a_runner

Okiludy wrote: »

Packerjohn wrote: »

sgt1372 wrote: »

Nothing wrong w/being able to do these 4 things but they're riduculous standards to serve as a prerequisite b4 doing anything else.

There are so many people starting out who can't even do one strict pullup or pushup (let alone 8 or 10) that they'd never even begin lifting if they had to meet such requirements.

To be intellectually honest, he's not saying don't do resistance work, just use what he considers the appropriate tool (in the case of pushups one's body) before external resistance.

But why is that better at than a loaded barbell? You can hurt yourself either way. Resistance training can be incrementally loaded efficiently and can be tailored to fitness levels easier than a body weight program. An obese person would likely be able to do this yardstick easier if they trained in weighted resistance first.

^ Agree. It's so much easier to adjust the weight of a barbell than to adjust resistance of body weight movements.

I can't do many push ups and can't do any pull ups. But I can do DB or BB rows and presses, and and 5, 10 lbs (or even micro load) resistance for current strength level.

jseams1234

It's T-Nation guys and gals. You want to blow a real gasket take a look at some of the Muscle and Fitness articles or even some of the "blogs" on the mfp home page.