Protein, and Keto diets
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knotgood77
Posts: 69 Member
This like so many other things has a wide range of opinion with Keto dieters. I am familiar with the standard format of 70% fat etc. What I am curious on is how many of you use this as a strict guideline, do some of you take in more protein while still remaining fat heavy in your macros. Do you actually test and show being kicked out of ketosis, or an insulin spike corresponding to higher level of protein? Is there formula you use to calculate how much protein you consume based on body weight. Looking for people with legit experience that have used a methodical approach, and are operating in a particular way based on more than a youtube vid. and what results are you seeing?
As for myself I am new to Keto diets, approx. 1 month in. I do tend to eat a bit higher protein than my macros suggest, often. I avg. about 1-1.1 g of protein per Kg of body weight, and check for ketones with urine test strips because it is what I have available currently. I consistently show a mod. level of ketones in the morning, tests before doing basically anything else. I have recently acquired a glucose tester, but have yet to start tracking results. I do not currently have a breath or blood keytone meter, if there is one you use, and recommend please let me know.
Thanks,Ethan
As for myself I am new to Keto diets, approx. 1 month in. I do tend to eat a bit higher protein than my macros suggest, often. I avg. about 1-1.1 g of protein per Kg of body weight, and check for ketones with urine test strips because it is what I have available currently. I consistently show a mod. level of ketones in the morning, tests before doing basically anything else. I have recently acquired a glucose tester, but have yet to start tracking results. I do not currently have a breath or blood keytone meter, if there is one you use, and recommend please let me know.
Thanks,Ethan
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Replies
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knotgood77 wrote: »This like so many other things has a wide range of opinion with Keto dieters. I am familiar with the standard format of 70% fat etc. What I am curious on is how many of you use this as a strict guideline, do some of you take in more protein while still remaining fat heavy in your macros. Do you actually test and show being kicked out of ketosis, or an insulin spike corresponding to higher level of protein? Is there formula you use to calculate how much protein you consume based on body weight. Looking for people with legit experience that have used a methodical approach, and are operating in a particular way based on more than a youtube vid. and what results are you seeing?
As for myself I am new to Keto diets, approx. 1 month in. I do tend to eat a bit higher protein than my macros suggest, often. I avg. about 1-1.1 g of protein per Kg of body weight, and check for ketones with urine test strips because it is what I have available currently. I consistently show a mod. level of ketones in the morning, tests before doing basically anything else. I have recently acquired a glucose tester, but have yet to start tracking results. I do not currently have a breath or blood keytone meter, if there is one you use, and recommend please let me know.
Thanks,Ethan
I'd be a lot more concerned with inadequate levela of protein leading to increase loss of lean body mass. Ideally, when you are losing weight, you should be 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight. And its towards the higher end as you become more lean. Also, resistance training is important for that as well.
It wont kick you out of ketosis and even if it did, why would it matter?4 -
knotgood77 wrote: »This like so many other things has a wide range of opinion with Keto dieters. I am familiar with the standard format of 70% fat etc. What I am curious on is how many of you use this as a strict guideline, do some of you take in more protein while still remaining fat heavy in your macros. Do you actually test and show being kicked out of ketosis, or an insulin spike corresponding to higher level of protein? Is there formula you use to calculate how much protein you consume based on body weight. Looking for people with legit experience that have used a methodical approach, and are operating in a particular way based on more than a youtube vid. and what results are you seeing?
As for myself I am new to Keto diets, approx. 1 month in. I do tend to eat a bit higher protein than my macros suggest, often. I avg. about 1-1.1 g of protein per Kg of body weight, and check for ketones with urine test strips because it is what I have available currently. I consistently show a mod. level of ketones in the morning, tests before doing basically anything else. I have recently acquired a glucose tester, but have yet to start tracking results. I do not currently have a breath or blood keytone meter, if there is one you use, and recommend please let me know.
Thanks,Ethan
I track everything very strictly as I am working with/documenting everything with a nutritionist and my doctor. I am very regimented with weighing everything I eat and tracking macros. Not everyone is the same but most people I know and myself are consuming around the 1 gram/lb of body weight of protein to ensure we can both keep the lean mass we have and gain lean mass if we want to. I am doing intermittent fasting with keto and I am getting body composition scans (Dexa) to track and document fast loss and lean mass gains. Urine strips are ok if that's what you have but defenetely blood testing is best because the urine strips can show just excess ketones in the urine (acetoacetate ketone bodies) while the blood test will show you the primary ketone body beta-hydroxybutyrate. Some pharmacies offer the ketone combo blood glucose monitors for free if you buy a box of test strips. And some on line do the same. I use Precision Xtra but there are a few different ones that do both glucose and ketones. Accu Chek is another one of the top of my head. If you do eat excess amounts of protein while eating very little carbs it can kick you out of ketosis cause the protein will get converted to glycogen by gluconeogenesis. Lot's of studies and info online you can look that stuff up on.
Personally I don't eat under .4 gram protein per lb of body mass but more normally I am eating closer to the 1 gram protein per lb. I am gaining lean mass as I am dropping body fat as shown by the Dexa scans. I work out anywhere from 3 to 5 days a week and I work out hard with a goal to gain lean muscle mass. Lot's of info on types of work outs to do to help grow lean mass and feed your muscles with amino acids (protein). That would take a few pages of writing to get into that stuff in great detail but it is commonly done from people doing keto and combining keto with intermittent fasting.
I can not say from any personal experience what that number is of "too much protein" kicking out of ketosis cause I haven't had that happen yet. But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.9 -
No you really aren't.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »[t I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/5 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »...But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
Sorry, not physiologically possible. Most likely attributable to inherent errors in measurement: https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
Excerpt:DEXA: The Verdict
Despite the fact that DEXA represents a 3-compartment model, its error rates are no better than hydrostatic weighing, and in some cases is worse. Like other techniques, DEXA does well when looking at group averages, but not so well when looking at individuals. Individual error rates tend to hover around 5%, although some studies have shown error rates as high as 10%. When looking at change over time in individuals, error rates have hovered around 5% in some research, although other research has indicated DEXA to perform much more poorly. For these reasons, I do not recommend DEXA for tracking change over time in individuals. If you do use DEXA for tracking change over time, I recommend very long time periods between measurements (a minimum of 3-6 months), as you will need a minimum of a 5% change in body fat to reliably detect a true change in body fat in most people.2 -
I'd be a lot more concerned with inadequate levela of protein leading to increase loss of lean body mass. Ideally, when you are losing weight, you should be 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight. And its towards the higher end as you become more lean. Also, resistance training is important for that as well.
It wont kick you out of ketosis and even if it did, why would it matter?
I understand this formula as being part of a standard lifting/nutrition protocol. I also understand the importance of exercise including resistance training. The Keto diet if followed in it's traditional format does not allow for this type of protein consumption. What I am specifically asking is for those following the Keto diet strategy, have you experimented with extra protien, was there a specific reason you did, and how are you tracking your results to verify the added protein does/does not kick you out of Ketosis. Do your results show muscle mass retention at the lower protein levels? Thank you
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knotgood77 wrote: »
I'd be a lot more concerned with inadequate levela of protein leading to increase loss of lean body mass. Ideally, when you are losing weight, you should be 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight. And its towards the higher end as you become more lean. Also, resistance training is important for that as well.
It wont kick you out of ketosis and even if it did, why would it matter?
I understand this formula as being part of a standard lifting/nutrition protocol. I also understand the importance of exercise including resistance training. The Keto diet if followed in it's traditional format does not allow for this type of protein consumption. What I am specifically asking is for those following the Keto diet strategy, have you experimented with extra protien, was there a specific reason you did, and how are you tracking your results to verify the added protein does/does not kick you out of Ketosis. Do your results show muscle mass retention at the lower protein levels? Thank you
If you are talking standard keto diet, as in the epilepsy protocol, than you should have roughly 10% protein but you will lean muscle. But if you don't have epilepsy, than you would be following a Modified Ketogenic Diet (like 99% of the people on here). I know there is generic macros always thrown around but they can be inherently low if one is aggressively cutting calories. The studies from Vokey and Phiiney generally run between 20 and 30% protein which puts them in my range. If you want to maintain muscle and potentially get noob gains if you are following a structured lifting routing than the higher side is better.
Ketosis is driven by carbs. And there is no evidence that i have ever seen to suggest under normal conditions that a person will be kicked out of ketosis by esting protein. The only time i have even seen anecdotal evidence is at 250-300g.1 -
I have been using MFP to track macros etc, with the settings modified to accommodate 20% protein. There are often days I exceed the protein macros, and that is what has put me in the g/per kg formula I am currently using. So by your experience, you think I could add another 10% and maintain a state of ketosis?1
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knotgood77 wrote: »I have been using MFP to track macros etc, with the settings modified to accommodate 20% protein. There are often days I exceed the protein macros, and that is what has put me in the g/per kg formula I am currently using. So by your experience, you think I could add another 10% and maintain a state of ketosis?
Yes. And from the people i have trained, it also seems that way.1 -
johnslater461 wrote: »
No you really aren't.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »[t I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
Ya ok. You tell me what I am doing lol. I have Dexa scans to show and doctors reports and nutritionist reports. So, no sorry you should learn more of what you "think" you know. Lot's and lot's of people gain muscle while they lose fat.
And there's more than one way to skin a cat. Can do it on Keto, Keto/intermittent fasting, and other programs. This is not new science. People have been doing it for a very long time.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/build-muscle-and-lose-fat-simultaneously.html
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/fitness/articles/2016-12-02/can-you-gain-muscle-while-losing-weight
https://www.ruled.me/mythbusting-training-on-keto-diet/
http://www.ketoisland.com/blog/keto-build-muscle-and-burn-fat-at-the-same-time/4 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »
No you really aren't.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »[t I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
Ya ok. You tell me what I am doing lol. I have Dexa scans to show and doctors reports and nutritionist reports. So, no sorry you should learn more of what you "think" you know. Lot's and lot's of people gain muscle while they lose fat.
And there's more than one way to skin a cat. Can do it on Keto, Keto/intermittent fasting, and other programs. This is not new science. People have been doing it for a very long time.
https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/build-muscle-and-lose-fat-simultaneously.html
https://health.usnews.com/wellness/fitness/articles/2016-12-02/can-you-gain-muscle-while-losing-weight
https://www.ruled.me/mythbusting-training-on-keto-diet/
http://www.ketoisland.com/blog/keto-build-muscle-and-burn-fat-at-the-same-time/
You can gain muscle in a deficit if you are new to training, severely obese and returning to training. Its not optimal or not going to be a ton.
Id be interested in seeing your dexa scans if you post them. The below discusses the mosy recent meta analysis regarding th conditions.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10611633/gaining-muscle-in-a-deficit/p1
ETA: don't confuse LBM incresee with muscle gains. DEXAs look at FM and LBM and extrapolate muscle. Not the same.1 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »...But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
Sorry, not physiologically possible. Most likely attributable to inherent errors in measurement: https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
Excerpt:DEXA: The Verdict
Despite the fact that DEXA represents a 3-compartment model, its error rates are no better than hydrostatic weighing, and in some cases is worse. Like other techniques, DEXA does well when looking at group averages, but not so well when looking at individuals. Individual error rates tend to hover around 5%, although some studies have shown error rates as high as 10%. When looking at change over time in individuals, error rates have hovered around 5% in some research, although other research has indicated DEXA to perform much more poorly. For these reasons, I do not recommend DEXA for tracking change over time in individuals. If you do use DEXA for tracking change over time, I recommend very long time periods between measurements (a minimum of 3-6 months), as you will need a minimum of a 5% change in body fat to reliably detect a true change in body fat in most people.
Dexa is THE Gold Standard in the world for body composition testing. Doctor approved as such all over the world.
Underwater body comp testing used to be the Gold Standard. Dexa is now the world known Gold Standard.
And when used as a regular tool an a regular basis during fat loss, weight training, muscle growth, there is no better way to know where your at in your body composition.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/top-5-ways-calculate-body-fat/
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »...But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
Sorry, not physiologically possible. Most likely attributable to inherent errors in measurement: https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
Excerpt:DEXA: The Verdict
Despite the fact that DEXA represents a 3-compartment model, its error rates are no better than hydrostatic weighing, and in some cases is worse. Like other techniques, DEXA does well when looking at group averages, but not so well when looking at individuals. Individual error rates tend to hover around 5%, although some studies have shown error rates as high as 10%. When looking at change over time in individuals, error rates have hovered around 5% in some research, although other research has indicated DEXA to perform much more poorly. For these reasons, I do not recommend DEXA for tracking change over time in individuals. If you do use DEXA for tracking change over time, I recommend very long time periods between measurements (a minimum of 3-6 months), as you will need a minimum of a 5% change in body fat to reliably detect a true change in body fat in most people.
Dexa is THE Gold Standard in the world for body composition testing. Doctor approved as such all over the world.
Underwater body comp testing used to be the Gold Standard. Dexa is now the world known Gold Standard.
And when used as a regular tool an a regular basis during fat loss, weight training, muscle growth, there is no better way to know where your at in your body composition.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/top-5-ways-calculate-body-fat/
DEXA are the gold standard, but they still have error ranges. This is why you look over an extended period of time. If you did it once a week, you'd see the variability in the equipment. This is no different than any method. The key is choosing a method and sticking with it.1 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »...But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
Sorry, not physiologically possible. Most likely attributable to inherent errors in measurement: https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
Excerpt:DEXA: The Verdict
Despite the fact that DEXA represents a 3-compartment model, its error rates are no better than hydrostatic weighing, and in some cases is worse. Like other techniques, DEXA does well when looking at group averages, but not so well when looking at individuals. Individual error rates tend to hover around 5%, although some studies have shown error rates as high as 10%. When looking at change over time in individuals, error rates have hovered around 5% in some research, although other research has indicated DEXA to perform much more poorly. For these reasons, I do not recommend DEXA for tracking change over time in individuals. If you do use DEXA for tracking change over time, I recommend very long time periods between measurements (a minimum of 3-6 months), as you will need a minimum of a 5% change in body fat to reliably detect a true change in body fat in most people.
Dexa is THE Gold Standard in the world for body composition testing. Doctor approved as such all over the world.
Underwater body comp testing used to be the Gold Standard. Dexa is now the world known Gold Standard.
And when used as a regular tool an a regular basis during fat loss, weight training, muscle growth, there is no better way to know where your at in your body composition.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/top-5-ways-calculate-body-fat/
DEXA may be the gold standard, but fictional ones are worthless.3 -
Making things upPaulChasinDreams wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »
No you really aren't.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »[t I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
Ya ok. You tell me what I am doing lolI have Dexa scans to show and doctors reports and nutritionist reports.
Nobody believes you.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
You've done nothing but the former. Time for the latter
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knotgood77 wrote: »I have been using MFP to track macros etc, with the settings modified to accommodate 20% protein. There are often days I exceed the protein macros, and that is what has put me in the g/per kg formula I am currently using. So by your experience, you think I could add another 10% and maintain a state of ketosis?
Most likely. Definitely if you are active.
It is mainly carbs that determine if you are in ketosis. Very, very high protein intake (like well over 200+ g) can lower your ketone levels but unless you need higher ketones to address a medical issue like a brain injury, high ketone levels are not needed for health. I believe the many of the health benefits of a ketogenic diet, besides those treating brain issues like dementia or seizures, come from a low intake of sugars and refined carbs rather than the actual ketones that may result from that sort of diet. KWIM?
My protein tended to fall around 20% although I do aim for 25% - I just have a hard time hitting that. I think a bit too much protein is generally better than too little. After a few years following a keto diet, I still have a hard time exceeding 20% on most days.1 -
johnslater461 wrote: »
Making things upPaulChasinDreams wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »
No you really aren't.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »[t I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
Ya ok. You tell me what I am doing lolI have Dexa scans to show and doctors reports and nutritionist reports.
Nobody believes you.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
You've done nothing but the former. Time for the latter
You're so positive right? Well you seen my offer on the forum have you not? I will put up $1000.00 Or as much as you want for a wager. You're such an expert not ever doing intermittent fasting combined with keto and working out to gain lean mass at the same time before but you must know your facts right because you read the internet for your information and quote/link things that actually proved you wrong in your own post lol.
So sorry you are laughable to me. I live it and do it. And I know a ton of others doing it too. I didn't just stumble into it. I have been shown how to do it from others who have been doing it for more than a year.
And like I said I will post a full journal. I am still under 50 days of my progress but even with that if you want to take the wager then no problem there is enough evidence so far to take your money lol. Put your money where your mouth is. We can E transfer the funds into a third parties account even a moderator here if your worried about it and they can transfer the money to the winners account. I know how lot's of people are skeptical and don't want to believe what they haven't done themselves so the best evidence is in a time tested proven method so the absolute best evidence you can see is from start to finish of fat loss, health improvements ie blood pressure, blood sugar, liver health etc. etc. from blood work, urine tests, body scans, doctors and dietician reports etc.. are all evidence of that. I'm under the care of a doctor and nutritionist until the end of my goals. Which is to be lean, have gained substantial lean muscle mass and to have improved my health across the board. I've already done that to some extent but still have much more to do till all my goals are reached. I am still a good 40 to 50 lbs away from the end of my goals depending on how much muscle mass I gain total through to the end but I am half way there. Keep on reaching beyond your knowledge it will only hold you back in life.
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PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »...But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
Sorry, not physiologically possible. Most likely attributable to inherent errors in measurement: https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
Excerpt:DEXA: The Verdict
Despite the fact that DEXA represents a 3-compartment model, its error rates are no better than hydrostatic weighing, and in some cases is worse. Like other techniques, DEXA does well when looking at group averages, but not so well when looking at individuals. Individual error rates tend to hover around 5%, although some studies have shown error rates as high as 10%. When looking at change over time in individuals, error rates have hovered around 5% in some research, although other research has indicated DEXA to perform much more poorly. For these reasons, I do not recommend DEXA for tracking change over time in individuals. If you do use DEXA for tracking change over time, I recommend very long time periods between measurements (a minimum of 3-6 months), as you will need a minimum of a 5% change in body fat to reliably detect a true change in body fat in most people.
Dexa is THE Gold Standard in the world for body composition testing. Doctor approved as such all over the world.
Underwater body comp testing used to be the Gold Standard. Dexa is now the world known Gold Standard.
And when used as a regular tool an a regular basis during fat loss, weight training, muscle growth, there is no better way to know where your at in your body composition.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/top-5-ways-calculate-body-fat/
DEXA are the gold standard, but they still have error ranges. This is why you look over an extended period of time. If you did it once a week, you'd see the variability in the equipment. This is no different than any method. The key is choosing a method and sticking with it.
Yes I agree. I am doing them on a regular basis for that exact reason. At the exact same time of day, with the exact same hours of fast between, and the exact same amount of water taken in within the 24 hrs prior to the scans.1 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »...But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
Sorry, not physiologically possible. Most likely attributable to inherent errors in measurement: https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
Excerpt:DEXA: The Verdict
Despite the fact that DEXA represents a 3-compartment model, its error rates are no better than hydrostatic weighing, and in some cases is worse. Like other techniques, DEXA does well when looking at group averages, but not so well when looking at individuals. Individual error rates tend to hover around 5%, although some studies have shown error rates as high as 10%. When looking at change over time in individuals, error rates have hovered around 5% in some research, although other research has indicated DEXA to perform much more poorly. For these reasons, I do not recommend DEXA for tracking change over time in individuals. If you do use DEXA for tracking change over time, I recommend very long time periods between measurements (a minimum of 3-6 months), as you will need a minimum of a 5% change in body fat to reliably detect a true change in body fat in most people.
Dexa is THE Gold Standard in the world for body composition testing. Doctor approved as such all over the world.
Underwater body comp testing used to be the Gold Standard. Dexa is now the world known Gold Standard.
And when used as a regular tool an a regular basis during fat loss, weight training, muscle growth, there is no better way to know where your at in your body composition.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/top-5-ways-calculate-body-fat/
DEXA are the gold standard, but they still have error ranges. This is why you look over an extended period of time. If you did it once a week, you'd see the variability in the equipment. This is no different than any method. The key is choosing a method and sticking with it.
Yes I agree. I am doing them on a regular basis for that exact reason. At the exact same time of day, with the exact same hours of fast between, and the exact same amount of water taken in within the 24 hrs prior to the scans.
Thats good. The point of the post from Dr. James Kreiger is that there can be variation. Since you have been doing this for only a little over 2 months, just don't be surprised if you see losses in lbm. If your baseline ia prior to lifting or keto, it can cause big fluctuations.1 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »
Making things upPaulChasinDreams wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »
No you really aren't.PaulChasinDreams wrote: »[t I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
Ya ok. You tell me what I am doing lolI have Dexa scans to show and doctors reports and nutritionist reports.
Nobody believes you.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
You've done nothing but the former. Time for the latter
You're so positive right? Well you seen my offer on the forum have you not? I will put up $1000.00 Or as much as you want for a wager. You're such an expert not ever doing intermittent fasting combined with keto and working out to gain lean mass at the same time before but you must know your facts right because you read the internet for your information and quote/link things that actually proved you wrong in your own post lol.
So sorry you are laughable to me. I live it and do it. And I know a ton of others doing it too. I didn't just stumble into it. I have been shown how to do it from others who have been doing it for more than a year.
And like I said I will post a full journal. I am still under 50 days of my progress but even with that if you want to take the wager then no problem there is enough evidence so far to take your money lol. Put your money where your mouth is. We can E transfer the funds into a third parties account even a moderator here if your worried about it and they can transfer the money to the winners account. I know how lot's of people are skeptical and don't want to believe what they haven't done themselves so the best evidence is in a time tested proven method so the absolute best evidence you can see is from start to finish of fat loss, health improvements ie blood pressure, blood sugar, liver health etc. etc. from blood work, urine tests, body scans, doctors and dietician reports etc.. are all evidence of that. I'm under the care of a doctor and nutritionist until the end of my goals. Which is to be lean, have gained substantial lean muscle mass and to have improved my health across the board. I've already done that to some extent but still have much more to do till all my goals are reached. I am still a good 40 to 50 lbs away from the end of my goals depending on how much muscle mass I gain total through to the end but I am half way there. Keep on reaching beyond your knowledge it will only hold you back in life.
Blah blah blah
Put up or shut up.4 -
PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »PaulChasinDreams wrote: »...But I can say from my own personal experience that from myself eating between .4 to 1 gram per pound of body weight I am 100% gaining lean muscle mass while losing fat.
Sorry, not physiologically possible. Most likely attributable to inherent errors in measurement: https://weightology.net/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
Excerpt:DEXA: The Verdict
Despite the fact that DEXA represents a 3-compartment model, its error rates are no better than hydrostatic weighing, and in some cases is worse. Like other techniques, DEXA does well when looking at group averages, but not so well when looking at individuals. Individual error rates tend to hover around 5%, although some studies have shown error rates as high as 10%. When looking at change over time in individuals, error rates have hovered around 5% in some research, although other research has indicated DEXA to perform much more poorly. For these reasons, I do not recommend DEXA for tracking change over time in individuals. If you do use DEXA for tracking change over time, I recommend very long time periods between measurements (a minimum of 3-6 months), as you will need a minimum of a 5% change in body fat to reliably detect a true change in body fat in most people.
Dexa is THE Gold Standard in the world for body composition testing. Doctor approved as such all over the world.
Underwater body comp testing used to be the Gold Standard. Dexa is now the world known Gold Standard.
And when used as a regular tool an a regular basis during fat loss, weight training, muscle growth, there is no better way to know where your at in your body composition.
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/top-5-ways-calculate-body-fat/
DEXA are the gold standard, but they still have error ranges. This is why you look over an extended period of time. If you did it once a week, you'd see the variability in the equipment. This is no different than any method. The key is choosing a method and sticking with it.
Yes I agree. I am doing them on a regular basis for that exact reason. At the exact same time of day, with the exact same hours of fast between, and the exact same amount of water taken in within the 24 hrs prior to the scans.
Thats good. The point of the post from Dr. James Kreiger is that there can be variation. Since you have been doing this for only a little over 2 months, just don't be surprised if you see losses in lbm. If your baseline ia prior to lifting or keto, it can cause big fluctuations.
Thank you for the info. I definitely look farward to chart longer term data. I have some blood and urine work results expected early next week and so far every time they have improved across the board as well. The unfortunate part of wanting to document and get professional medical reports in closer together intervals is that our medical doesn't cover all the extra tests and scans etc. They only cover what the government feels the doctor is allowed to bill them for for the health situation at hand. Which I guess is understandable or everyone would just go and ask for tests all the time even if they didn't medically need them. So it's costing but at least all the data will be easier to chart and understand when related to the fat loss/fitness plan that's being used.1
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