Keto
Replies
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singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?1 -
paulag1955 wrote: »Update: I am down 50 lbs since I started back in February. I have not counted any calories besides I a few times. I eat until I am full and if I'm hungry I eat again. I feel more energetic and don't crave anything I used to crave. Definitely going to keep this up.
Awesome results. I'm down 51 pounds, but it's taken me just over a year to do it. Hoping to lose 10 or so more.
Nice. You got it.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?
I'll guess that VLCD per @WholeFoods4Lyfe is very low CARB diet and "indefinite VLCD" stated by @singingflutelady means very low CALORIE diet. Maybe not but thought I'd suggest that may be the case since very low calorie diets (indefinite or otherwise) are not favored unless under medical supervision.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?
Agressive and long term weight loss increases muscle loss, which increases adaptive thermogenesis. Being VLCalorieD makes is very difficult to meet protein requirements.
This in term will decrease metabolic functions; which is why rebounding can be so easy. Plus there are hormonal effects that can be exacerbated, like decreases in Letpin, testosterone, etc..
ETA, i know some think losing 3+ lbs a week is healthy, but its very unlikely it is. Especially since many arent hitting protein goals 1.5-2.2g/kg4 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?
I'll guess that VLCD per @WholeFoods4Lyfe is very low CARB diet and "indefinite VLCD" stated by @singingflutelady means very low CALORIE diet. Maybe not but thought I'd suggest that may be the case since very low calorie diets (indefinite or otherwise) are not favored unless under medical supervision.
I never thought of vlcarbd that's probably what she meant2 -
Been on Keto for two months today. Total weight lose has been 35 pounds. I drink bulletproof coffee every morning for breakfast and try to keep my carbs at 10 - 20 grams a day but usually end up with 15-25 carb grams a day. Sometimes a little more. Good luck everyone! 😊2
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singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?
Agressive and long term weight loss increases muscle loss, which increases adaptive thermogenesis. Being VLCD makes is very difficult to meet protein requirements.
This in term will decrease metabolic functions; which is why rebounding can be so easy. Plus there are hormonal effects that can be exacerbated, like decreases in Letpin, testosterone, etc..
ETA, i know some think losing 3+ lbs a week is healthy, but its very unlikely it is. Especially since many arent hitting protein goals 1.5-2.2g/kg
Good points but in keto you don't lack in protien, just carbs. I eat about 20 percent protien, 75 in healthy fats and 5 percent carbs. My calories are around 1900 each day. I feel so much better than I ever have and more energetic. I don't work out often besides juijitsu once in a while and for the hell of it tried to bench press what I was doing before I started this diet. I was on a body building routine and my bench press actually went up since being on keto. I was able to lift more weight with my other lifts as well. Why would that be?6 -
mattaturtle wrote: »Been on Keto for two months today. Total weight lose has been 35 pounds. I drink bulletproof coffee every morning for breakfast and try to keep my carbs at 10 - 20 grams a day but usually end up with 15-25 carb grams a day. Sometimes a little more. Good luck everyone! 😊
That's awesome. Keep up the good work1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?
Agressive and long term weight loss increases muscle loss, which increases adaptive thermogenesis. Being VLCD makes is very difficult to meet protein requirements.
This in term will decrease metabolic functions; which is why rebounding can be so easy. Plus there are hormonal effects that can be exacerbated, like decreases in Letpin, testosterone, etc..
ETA, i know some think losing 3+ lbs a week is healthy, but its very unlikely it is. Especially since many arent hitting protein goals 1.5-2.2g/kg
Good points but in keto you don't lack in protien, just carbs. I eat about 20 percent protien, 75 in healthy fats and 5 percent carbs. My calories are around 1900 each day. I feel so much better than I ever have and more energetic. I don't work out often besides juijitsu once in a while and for the hell of it tried to bench press what I was doing before I started this diet. I was on a body building routine and my bench press actually went up since being on keto. I was able to lift more weight with my other lifts as well. Why would that be?
Well it's possible you got stronger through jujitsu or you just end up with better form. It's possible when you were on the bodybuilding routine, it was burning you out (since most are crap) or the order wasn't correct (i.e., by the time you did bench, it was later in the routine).
But with the current body of evidence, performance will suffer on keto; some suffer less than others, but carbs provide more energy (ATP); fats also take longer to metabolize (except is MCT oils). And while you can maintain muscle with keto, if at appropriate levels, it's far easy to do that with carb + protein based diets or even gain on carb + protein. Although, based on Vokey and Phinney's work, most of the muscle maintenance is done with moderate deficits and higher levels of protein (~25%). There aren't really any studies for keto + leaner people. I know the studies on leaner people (who aren't keto) generally show higher levels of protein is need.. often 2.2-2.8g/kg (so 1g/lb or more). Most keto'ers freak out over this because of glucenogenesis, which is kind of funny because no one ever talks about how fat is converted into glucose.6 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Nothing wrong with an indefinite low carb diet.
ETA: Apparently I need to edit that for me, VLCD = very low carb diet. I do not eat very low calorie, quite the opposite actually. I didn't realize that the term has multiple meanings. That is my error. I follow a very low carb (<5g) Ketogenic Diet.2 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Nothing wrong with an indefinite low carb diet.
ETA: Apparently I need to edit that for me, VLCD = very low carb diet. I do not eat very low calorie, quite the opposite actually. I didn't realize that the term has multiple meanings. That is my error. I follow a very low carb (<5g) Ketogenic Diet.
Yeah some of the acronyms can get confusing. I kept seeing ED in posts but it took awhile for me to catch that it meant "eating disorder" instead of .....2 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?
Agressive and long term weight loss increases muscle loss, which increases adaptive thermogenesis. Being VLCD makes is very difficult to meet protein requirements.
This in term will decrease metabolic functions; which is why rebounding can be so easy. Plus there are hormonal effects that can be exacerbated, like decreases in Letpin, testosterone, etc..
ETA, i know some think losing 3+ lbs a week is healthy, but its very unlikely it is. Especially since many arent hitting protein goals 1.5-2.2g/kg
Good points but in keto you don't lack in protien, just carbs. I eat about 20 percent protien, 75 in healthy fats and 5 percent carbs. My calories are around 1900 each day. I feel so much better than I ever have and more energetic. I don't work out often besides juijitsu once in a while and for the hell of it tried to bench press what I was doing before I started this diet. I was on a body building routine and my bench press actually went up since being on keto. I was able to lift more weight with my other lifts as well. Why would that be?
Well it's possible you got stronger through jujitsu or you just end up with better form. It's possible when you were on the bodybuilding routine, it was burning you out (since most are crap) or the order wasn't correct (i.e., by the time you did bench, it was later in the routine).
But with the current body of evidence, performance will suffer on keto; some suffer less than others, but carbs provide more energy (ATP); fats also take longer to metabolize (except is MCT oils). And while you can maintain muscle with keto, if at appropriate levels, it's far easy to do that with carb + protein based diets or even gain on carb + protein. Although, based on Vokey and Phinney's work, most of the muscle maintenance is done with moderate deficits and higher levels of protein (~25%). There aren't really any studies for keto + leaner people. I know the studies on leaner people (who aren't keto) generally show higher levels of protein is need.. often 2.2-2.8g/kg (so 1g/lb or more). Most keto'ers freak out over this because of glucenogenesis, which is kind of funny because no one ever talks about how fat is converted into glucose.
Considering I'm still learning about keto it doesn't freak me out. I'll take any k ow ledge or advice. Thank you0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I did Keto for about 5 months last year and lost 45lbs. I started back on 5/31 and have lost 28lbs since then. I love it. I feel great doing Keto/VLCD and plan on continuing not just until all the weight is lost, but indefinitely.
An indefinite VLCD is not a very good idea at all
Why not?
Agressive and long term weight loss increases muscle loss, which increases adaptive thermogenesis. Being VLCD makes is very difficult to meet protein requirements.
This in term will decrease metabolic functions; which is why rebounding can be so easy. Plus there are hormonal effects that can be exacerbated, like decreases in Letpin, testosterone, etc..
ETA, i know some think losing 3+ lbs a week is healthy, but its very unlikely it is. Especially since many arent hitting protein goals 1.5-2.2g/kg
Good points but in keto you don't lack in protien, just carbs. I eat about 20 percent protien, 75 in healthy fats and 5 percent carbs. My calories are around 1900 each day. I feel so much better than I ever have and more energetic. I don't work out often besides juijitsu once in a while and for the hell of it tried to bench press what I was doing before I started this diet. I was on a body building routine and my bench press actually went up since being on keto. I was able to lift more weight with my other lifts as well. Why would that be?
Well it's possible you got stronger through jujitsu or you just end up with better form. It's possible when you were on the bodybuilding routine, it was burning you out (since most are crap) or the order wasn't correct (i.e., by the time you did bench, it was later in the routine).
But with the current body of evidence, performance will suffer on keto; some suffer less than others, but carbs provide more energy (ATP); fats also take longer to metabolize (except is MCT oils). And while you can maintain muscle with keto, if at appropriate levels, it's far easy to do that with carb + protein based diets or even gain on carb + protein. Although, based on Vokey and Phinney's work, most of the muscle maintenance is done with moderate deficits and higher levels of protein (~25%). There aren't really any studies for keto + leaner people. I know the studies on leaner people (who aren't keto) generally show higher levels of protein is need.. often 2.2-2.8g/kg (so 1g/lb or more). Most keto'ers freak out over this because of glucenogenesis, which is kind of funny because no one ever talks about how fat is converted into glucose.
Considering I'm still learning about keto it doesn't freak me out. I'll take any k ow ledge or advice. Thank you
Oh that is definitely a good thing. Too often when people bring up points against a particular diet, other people assume that aren't for it. And i am sure my name has been used in an unfriendly manner in the keto group here.
Unfortunately there isn't a ton of evidence in the field of keto and body building. So I am speaking from the evidence i have seen and anecdotal evidence from the people i have trained, to include several who have done keto.
And IMO, keto is definitely one of many ways to see fat loss, but less than superior to build muscle or even sport in general. Now that doesn't mean it cant have its place or people can't perform while being on a keto diet, but their results many be suboptimal as compared to one who incorporates carb refeeds or follows a higher carb based diet.
Personally, i follow UD2 which cycles keto days (4days) with low calorie + very high carb near or above maintenance. So I try to hit net 50g or below on keto days at 1500-1700 and 400-500+ on refeed days with low fat (~50g). The idea ia to increase blood flow to stubborn areas, increase fatty acid mobilization, and deplete glycogen. So when you refeed, your body prioritizes glycogen replenishment and restoration of Letpin over fat storage; this is why you keep fats low because fats have a greater probably of storage in adipose.3 -
Dear Posters,
I tried to edit some of the confusion surrounding VLCD in the interest of keeping this thread on track.
VLcarbD are fine.
VLCalorieD can be dangerous and promoting them is against MFP guidelines. I realize that was not the intention here though.
Thanks for staying on track and supportive in this thread.
4legs,
MFP moderator2 -
If you're comfortable doing it, this link will explain what you need to do to add net carbs to myfitnesspal in Chrome, Safari or Firefox. https://www.perfectketo.com/myfitnesspal-net-carbs/
2 -
7 weeks in and down 26 lbs. feeling better than ever.2
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So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?0
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So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
High fat is not necessary for Keto. The only thing that is necessary for keto is low carb.
Here is a suggestion for your macros:
Carbs < 20g -> this is a limit, do not exceed
Protein -> this is a suggestion, I recommend that you exceed your protein goals every day
Fat -> use fat to fill in for satiety, it is not needed (nor would I recommend) to reach your fat goals. The reason being the body will use the fat that you eat first for energy and then any extra body fat that you have.0 -
So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
High fat is not necessary for Keto. The only thing that is necessary for keto is low carb.
Here is a suggestion for your macros:
Carbs < 20g -> this is a limit, do not exceed
Protein -> this is a suggestion, I recommend that you exceed your protein goals every day
Fat -> use fat to fill in for satiety, it is not needed (nor would I recommend) to reach your fat goals. The reason being the body will use the fat that you eat first for energy and then any extra body fat that you have.
That's what they say in this group as well. I just started giving it a shot yesterday, issue is it seems everything has fat in it meat wise.0 -
Started over two weeks ago (didnt take any starts as dont have a scale nor a tape)
I cheat on the weekends a bit and some some opps. For the most part I stay around my 1200 calories and under 20 net carbs.
I can see the difference in my stomach, I've for sure lost weight around there,
also I feel better and i have a really bad stomach that would give me a lot of pain (past issues) and this diet has helped get rid of most of that every day pain.0 -
So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
High fat is not necessary for Keto. The only thing that is necessary for keto is low carb.
Here is a suggestion for your macros:
Carbs < 20g -> this is a limit, do not exceed
Protein -> this is a suggestion, I recommend that you exceed your protein goals every day
Fat -> use fat to fill in for satiety, it is not needed (nor would I recommend) to reach your fat goals. The reason being the body will use the fat that you eat first for energy and then any extra body fat that you have.
That's what they say in this group as well. I just started giving it a shot yesterday, issue is it seems everything has fat in it meat wise.
Most meats do have fats, you just don't need to add extra fats to the meat dishes, or have fat bombs (treats made from fats) or put fat in your coffee (I thing BPC is an abomination and a total waste of calories). Go ahead and eat the fattier cuts of meat, just don't pound down extra sources of fat to simply meet your fat percentage for the day.4 -
So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
They don't call it LCHF for nothing. I am no expert but everything I have researched is careful to mention that Keto is not "High Protein" but does call for "adequate protein". Adequate may be somewhat difficult to define but I think someone defined it as three or four meat portions the size of your palm.0 -
So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
Your FB group is either not keto-specific or knows nothing about keto, which is definitely high fat.
You can lose weight with low fat, moderate fat, or high fat - in order to lose weight, you simply need a calorie deficit, which can be made of whatever macros you like.
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So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
The only thing you need for ketosis is carb restriction so if you're deliberately adding more fat than you enjoy or are restricting your protein don't. It's not necessary and it's not a good idea for dieters to restrict protein at all - more is better.0 -
So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
They don't call it LCHF for nothing. I am no expert but everything I have researched is careful to mention that Keto is not "High Protein" but does call for "adequate protein". Adequate may be somewhat difficult to define but I think someone defined it as three or four meat portions the size of your palm.
Adequate protein is 1.5-2.2g/kg or more. That is backed by several meta analyses... Active, lean and/or glycogen depleted tend to put it towards the higher end.2 -
Im doing keto as well and liking it so far. I was on a stuck mode and started keto and now went down 12 pounds and some inches.2
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So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
Several different views from what I’ve seen so far. Some think that high protein triggers gluconeogenesis and can kick you out of ketosis. Some believe that the glucose caused by too much protein is negligible. My view is that we want protein to spare muscle loss but our main fuel source should be fat.
Excess protein can also be bad for the kidneys. Listen to your body is what I would say. I like experimenting a bit and seeing what works best for me.2 -
So I'm in a Facebook group that says high fat is not right and that I should eat more protien and lower my fat if I want to lose weight. For months everything I've read states higher fat and moderate protien. Any thoughts suggestions or confirmations?
Several different views from what I’ve seen so far. Some think that high protein triggers gluconeogenesis and can kick you out of ketosis. Some believe that the glucose caused by too much protein is negligible. My view is that we want protein to spare muscle loss but our main fuel source should be fat.
Excess protein can also be bad for the kidneys. Listen to your body is what I would say. I like experimenting a bit and seeing what works best for me.
I agree with both views I believe. Too many people say this or that. I've decided and have tried to have protien and fat be some whatt even in a percentage aspec. I can't focus in macros and counting anything. Who lives line that? To me it's not fun. I've decided if it's meat, fish, eggs, and some healthier veggies I'm going to eat it. So far this helped me break through a stall and I can still lift heavy weights and feel great.
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More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Protein & Gluconeogenesis
For those who want to under glucenogenesis. The fear of getting kicked out of ketosis is a stretch.2
This discussion has been closed.
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