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Back on the running train and looking for advice
MegaMooseEsq
Posts: 3,118 Member
I started running last summer/fall and loved it right away - I live with anxiety and find running outdoors really clears my head in a way I never thought possible. Anyhow, I’m looking for advice on how to get back into it responsibly, so here’s my background in a nutshell: I started last August with a C25K-ish run/walk program and by early October was running 3 or 4 times a week for 1-2 miles at a time, generally totaling 4-6 miles a week.
My last regular run was December 1. I ran twice during a warm week in Feb (1.26 miles and 2.63 miles), and five times in March, no more than twice a week, for about 2 miles each run. I was frankly astonished that I was able to jump back at about the same pace and longer distance, but I did stay active over the winter with regular bodyweight and cardio circuit workouts, and weight lifting starting at the beginning of March.
I didn’t run at all between the last week in March and this past week because of weather. I’ve now been out twice for about two miles at a time (same route I was running in March) and want to make a schedule for myself for the next month. I’m hoping for some feedback from the more experienced folks here, so hopefully I didn’t leave anything out! My goals are to push myself but not get hurt, otherwise I just want to have fun and enjoy the rush! I've signed up for a 5k in October but don't currently have any other racing aspirations.
Week of April 23: M/W/F 2.2 miles each, Saturday long run 2.5 miles, 9.1 miles total
Week of April 30: M/W/F 2.2 miles each, Saturday long run 3 miles, 9.6 miles total
Week of May 7: M/W/F 2.5 miles each, Saturday long run 3.4 miles, 10.9 miles total
Week of May 14: M/W/F 2.5 miles each, probably need to skip the long run (family in town), 7.5 miles total
Week of May 21: M/W/F 2.7 miles each, Saturday long run 3.4 miles, 11.5 miles total
Week of May 28: M/W/F 2.7 miles each, Saturday long run 3.8 miles, 11.9 miles total
Does that look reasonable? Too conservative? Not conservative enough? Obviously I’ll pay attention to my body and adjust as needed - I just work best with a plan to start from. In addition to running I’m lifting Tu/Th/Sat, full rest Sunday, and don’t plan on anything else other than moderate amounts of walking and evening yoga and stretching. Saturday I’d plan on lifting in the AM and running in the PM. My legs felt fairly sore after my Monday run and last night, but I’m feeling good today. Thanks all!
My last regular run was December 1. I ran twice during a warm week in Feb (1.26 miles and 2.63 miles), and five times in March, no more than twice a week, for about 2 miles each run. I was frankly astonished that I was able to jump back at about the same pace and longer distance, but I did stay active over the winter with regular bodyweight and cardio circuit workouts, and weight lifting starting at the beginning of March.
I didn’t run at all between the last week in March and this past week because of weather. I’ve now been out twice for about two miles at a time (same route I was running in March) and want to make a schedule for myself for the next month. I’m hoping for some feedback from the more experienced folks here, so hopefully I didn’t leave anything out! My goals are to push myself but not get hurt, otherwise I just want to have fun and enjoy the rush! I've signed up for a 5k in October but don't currently have any other racing aspirations.
Week of April 23: M/W/F 2.2 miles each, Saturday long run 2.5 miles, 9.1 miles total
Week of April 30: M/W/F 2.2 miles each, Saturday long run 3 miles, 9.6 miles total
Week of May 7: M/W/F 2.5 miles each, Saturday long run 3.4 miles, 10.9 miles total
Week of May 14: M/W/F 2.5 miles each, probably need to skip the long run (family in town), 7.5 miles total
Week of May 21: M/W/F 2.7 miles each, Saturday long run 3.4 miles, 11.5 miles total
Week of May 28: M/W/F 2.7 miles each, Saturday long run 3.8 miles, 11.9 miles total
Does that look reasonable? Too conservative? Not conservative enough? Obviously I’ll pay attention to my body and adjust as needed - I just work best with a plan to start from. In addition to running I’m lifting Tu/Th/Sat, full rest Sunday, and don’t plan on anything else other than moderate amounts of walking and evening yoga and stretching. Saturday I’d plan on lifting in the AM and running in the PM. My legs felt fairly sore after my Monday run and last night, but I’m feeling good today. Thanks all!
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Replies
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I wouldn't lift and run on your long run day, personally, even if your mileage is low. Apart from that it looks fine.0
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TavistockToad wrote: »I wouldn't lift and run on your long run day, personally, even if your mileage is low. Apart from that it looks fine.
Yeah, that was a sticking point - I just liked the idea of getting more done on Saturday, but I work from home and control my own schedule so there's really no reason I have to do it that way. Do you think I should go to two short runs and one long so I can maintain a full rest day? Maybe combine a short run and a lifting day and see how that goes?0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »I wouldn't lift and run on your long run day, personally, even if your mileage is low. Apart from that it looks fine.
Yeah, that was a sticking point - I just liked the idea of getting more done on Saturday, but I work from home and control my own schedule so there's really no reason I have to do it that way. Do you think I should go to two short runs and one long so I can maintain a full rest day? Maybe combine a short run and a lifting day and see how that goes?
Definitely keep one full rest day. The rest you can figure out as you go along, you've got plenty of time till october0 -
What @TavistockToad said.
Since you want to push yourself, you might think about *how* you want to push yourself. Adding mileage is one way to push yourself if your goal is to increase endurance, but you might also consider adding speedwork.
Hal Higdon offers multiple 5k training plans, some of which incorporate more speed training than others: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/50932/5K-Training-The-Most-Popular-Racing-Distance
If you're interested in increasing your distance, you might choose a 10k plan: http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51121/10K-Training-Guide1 -
Last year I ran 2 miles a day 3 days a week, then ran a 5k every Saturday plus did quite a bit of walking on the weekends. It wore me out to the point that I didn't progress well with my 5k times, nor was I able to increase my endurance to run further than 5k. This year I plan to drop that back to two short runs per week, then the one 5k and see if I can extend that distance a bit. My ultimate goal would be to have the endurance to run up to 10k at a leisurely pace and drop my 5k times below 28 minutes which was my best time last year.1
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So you're running 4 days/week and lifting 3days/week? Or at least that's what your're proposing?
IMO, that's a little aggressive, but that's more based on my personal experience than it is any real knowledge about anything. My legs don't respond/recover well from both running and lifting.0 -
@TavistockToad: Yeah, every time a part of my brain goes "do I really need that full rest day?" the rest of my brain goes "YES, UNLESS YOU WANT A FULL REST WEEK/MONTH/YEAR DUMBKITTEN."
@apullum: I hadn't really thought about that - I may have to experiment. Right now I know that I enjoy running at a slow-ish pace for 20-30 minutes and that I'd like to try running a 5k but I don't have anything more specific than that. The only thing I know that I don't like is running on a treadmill.
I'll check out those programs.
@Spliner1969 and @jjpptt2: That sounds like a couple of votes for three days a week running. I'm not married to the idea of running four days a week, it just seemed like a reasonable place to start. I'd definitely rather drop a running day than a lifting day at this point. I don't seem to be especially prone to muscle soreness and haven't experienced it much at all from lifting (not that heavy for me is all that heavy objectively) or running before this week, but I wouldn't want to push it.
I like the sounds of those goals, @Spliner1969 - I might borrow that plan and see how it goes.0 -
Coincidentally, I f-ed up my morning with a late night last night and was considering an impromptu rest day today - that might be the perfect opportunity to shift to a M/W/F lifting schedule and put running on Tu/Th/Sa, plus give my legs an extra day to recover. Huuuuuuuuuuuuurm.0
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@apullum: I hadn't really thought about that - I may have to experiment. Right now I know that I enjoy running at a slow-ish pace for 20-30 minutes and that I'd like to try running a 5k but I don't have anything more specific than that. The only think I know that I don't like is running on a treadmill. I'll check out those programs.
Treadmills are the worst. I can run a half marathon just fine outside, and can't make it a mile on a treadmill. I have a friend who trained for a marathon on a treadmill. I think she's superhuman.
I actually do run 3-4 times a week and do strength training with dumbbells/bodyweight twice a week. I also hike on most weekends. I don't do strength and cardio on the same day. That's a schedule I had to work up to, though.0 -
In my years of experience lifting and running there isnt much problem with lifting and running on the same days. It really all depends on what you mean by lifting tho, if you are doing upper body and/or core exercises it shouldn't be a problem.
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In my years of experience lifting and running there isnt much problem with lifting and running on the same days. It really all depends on what you mean by lifting tho, if you are doing upper body and/or core exercises it shouldn't be a problem.
That makes sense - I'm doing a beginner program that's all full body workouts, though, so there's something for the legs every time.0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »In my years of experience lifting and running there isnt much problem with lifting and running on the same days. It really all depends on what you mean by lifting tho, if you are doing upper body and/or core exercises it shouldn't be a problem.
That makes sense - I'm doing a beginner program that's all full body workouts, though, so there's something for the legs every time.
I think a lot of it comes down to your personal experience (lifting vs running vs both vs alternating days). There's soooo much more to recovering than simple rest days. And sooo much more to recovery needs than just what the workout was for that day.0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »In my years of experience lifting and running there isnt much problem with lifting and running on the same days. It really all depends on what you mean by lifting tho, if you are doing upper body and/or core exercises it shouldn't be a problem.
That makes sense - I'm doing a beginner program that's all full body workouts, though, so there's something for the legs every time.
I do full body 2x a week and run 3 x a week. I also do stationary bike for cross training.
I don't do strength training either side of long run day.
ETA that's in a perfect world... what I actually did was ignore the advice to strength train, got various injuries, added in strength training, got much better, but recently have got lazy with it which is causing niggles. I really need to get better at taking my own advice! :laugh:1 -
I lift on two of the days I run during the week (short runs), and last year did it on the 3x per week short runs. I don't lift heavy, and it's not very progressive. More of maintenance lifting routines, circuit training using bodyweight, then free weights on my bench with no more than 40lb weights all upper body. Bodyweight stuff is all upper body and core. My legs I generally depend on running/walking for their workout, and I'll sneak in a session on my M5 about once or twice a week in the summer at max resistance which is really similar to walking up stairs with a ton of weight lol. I'm not actually trying to build much more muscle than I have, more maintain what I have and build endurance. Also, I have previous back injuries and surgeries which precludes me from putting more than about 25-30lbs of weight on my lower spine permanently. So any lifting/body weight routines I do do not include weighted squats or anything that would add additional weight to my spine.2
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go slow and go easy.
doing too much at once leads to burn out, overwhelmed feelings, and injuries.
treadmills are great tools. i trained the better part of my second half on one.0 -
Thank you for all of the advice! I think I'm going to try M/W/F lifting, Tu/Th/Sa running. I'm thinking for the next month I'll increase milage each week on the short runs, the long run, or both, depending on how I'm feeling, which should have me adding a half mile to a mile to my total each week. It'll take me longer than planned to get to my first couple of milestones (10 miles in a week and my first 5k run) but that's okay with me. Plus now I can pretend that taking today off was part of the plan!
@TavistockToad: Don't neglect lifting the heavy things! It's sooooooooooo good for you!
@Spliner1969: That makes sense - I'm definitely in excited beginner gains mode right now, at least as much as I can be while eating in a deficit and saving up for my first rack. Here's hoping I can keep the injuries at bay as long as possible! So far my only overtraining injury was that extensor tendonitis from planking... whoops...
@mbaker566: I read something recently (probably in Starting Strength) about the difference between training and exercise, the latter being something you do for the experience of doing it, and the former being something you do as part of a plan to advance toward a goal. Although I like pushing myself and having some structure, running is primarily about the experience right now. I definitely don't want to burn out or get injured, but I'm not especially worried about my progress stalling if I can't get outside. I'm pretty sure I'll be okay for that 5k in October either way.0 -
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »@Spliner1969: That makes sense - I'm definitely in excited beginner gains mode right now, at least as much as I can be while eating in a deficit and saving up for my first rack. Here's hoping I can keep the injuries at bay as long as possible! So far my only overtraining injury was that extensor tendonitis from planking... whoops...
Are you sure it was from planking, I think that is usually caused by having your shoes too tightly laced or being on your feet for too long or a combination of both? Your doctor knows best though.
Also.. if you're into free weights a simple bench is fairly cheap these days. Mine declines, lays flat or inclines and I think it was around $60. Can be used for situps, crunches, or free weights. The weights were fairly cheap, and I built my collection over time. Actually picked them up at the local Wal-Mart, they had the bars and individual plates pretty darn cheap. Started with about 20lbs on each bar, then moved up to 25, 30, 35, and 40 by adding 2.5 or 5lb weight plates in pairs to each bar. Never bothered to buy a full length press bar, and would need a rack for that anyway. Food for thought.
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TavistockToad wrote: »
I consider myself fortunate that I actually *like* both running (outdoors) and lifting (heavy). It makes it a lot easier to do the things that are good for you when they're also enjoyable.1 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
@apullum: I hadn't really thought about that - I may have to experiment. Right now I know that I enjoy running at a slow-ish pace for 20-30 minutes and that I'd like to try running a 5k but I don't have anything more specific than that. The only thing I know that I don't like is running on a treadmill. I'll check out those programs.
Given your planned mileage totals I wouldn't worry about speedwork right now. Build your cardio base with easy mileage and let your body adapt to that first. Adding speedwork too soon is no different then adding mileage too soon. Personally, I didn't start adding any speedwork to my routine until I was regularly running 20+ miles per week (one speed session of ~3-4 miles, three easy runs of 4-5 miles), and one long run of 7-8 miles per week).1 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »
I consider myself fortunate that I actually *like* both running (outdoors) and lifting (heavy). It makes it a lot easier to do the things that are good for you when they're also enjoyable.
I find lifting boring... but it's very much worth it to remain injury free!1 -
Spliner1969 wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »@Spliner1969: That makes sense - I'm definitely in excited beginner gains mode right now, at least as much as I can be while eating in a deficit and saving up for my first rack. Here's hoping I can keep the injuries at bay as long as possible! So far my only overtraining injury was that extensor tendonitis from planking... whoops...
Are you sure it was from planking, I think that is usually caused by having your shoes too tightly laced or being on your feet for too long or a combination of both? Your doctor knows best though.
Also.. if you're into free weights a simple bench is fairly cheap these days. Mine declines, lays flat or inclines and I think it was around $60. Can be used for situps, crunches, or free weights. The weights were fairly cheap, and I built my collection over time. Actually picked them up at the local Wal-Mart, they had the bars and individual plates pretty darn cheap. Started with about 20lbs on each bar, then moved up to 25, 30, 35, and 40 by adding 2.5 or 5lb weight plates in pairs to each bar. Never bothered to buy a full length press bar, and would need a rack for that anyway. Food for thought.
Yeah, given the timing we're pretty sure it was planking - I sit on my butt for a living and rarely wear shoes with laces (except for running, which I wasn't doing at the time), plus I've actually lost weight in my feet over the last year (so dumb). It's fine now that I'm taking more time off. I assume the increased strength and weight I've lost since then doesn't hurt either. I actually have a pretty good lifting set-up for now: flat bench (I'm too short for most incline benches), adjustable dumbbells, suspension straps, and a trap bar for deads - I'm just waiting for my spouse's bonus check to come through in June to get a barbell setup then I'll switch to Starting Strength or StrongLifts. My father-in-law is a former strength coach but I usually lift alone at home, so I'd hear about it if I didn't do the safety stuff right.0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Yeah, given the timing we're pretty sure it was planking - I sit on my butt for a living and rarely wear shoes with laces (except for running, which I wasn't doing at the time), plus I've actually lost weight in my feet over the last year (so dumb). It's fine now that I'm taking more time off. I assume the increased strength and weight I've lost since then doesn't hurt either. I actually have a pretty good lifting set-up for now: flat bench (I'm too short for most incline benches), adjustable dumbbells, suspension straps, and a trap bar for deads - I'm just waiting for my spouse's bonus check to come through in June to get a barbell setup then I'll switch to Starting Strength or StrongLifts. My father-in-law is a former strength coach but I usually lift alone at home, so I'd get in trouble if I didn't do the safety stuff right.
I actually ended up with a similar injury last year in my feet, turned out it was the new shoes I purchased. I usually have to wear extra wide, and these were wide only and for whatever reason were too tight on the top of my feet. Or it's possible I was just lacing them too tight when they were new. About a month into walking/running I ended up with pain in the top of my feet. Doc said extensor tendonitis as well and I was banned from walking/running for about a month. I ignored him switched back to my old shoes, popped some ibuprofen and simply walked slower and managed to work through it. Never thought about planks causing it, was doing about the same back then as I do now. But it's always possible they were causing it coupled with those shoes. Have not had issues since but have to be careful how tight my shoes are when I lace them up.
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Spliner1969 wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Yeah, given the timing we're pretty sure it was planking - I sit on my butt for a living and rarely wear shoes with laces (except for running, which I wasn't doing at the time), plus I've actually lost weight in my feet over the last year (so dumb). It's fine now that I'm taking more time off. I assume the increased strength and weight I've lost since then doesn't hurt either. I actually have a pretty good lifting set-up for now: flat bench (I'm too short for most incline benches), adjustable dumbbells, suspension straps, and a trap bar for deads - I'm just waiting for my spouse's bonus check to come through in June to get a barbell setup then I'll switch to Starting Strength or StrongLifts. My father-in-law is a former strength coach but I usually lift alone at home, so I'd get in trouble if I didn't do the safety stuff right.
I actually ended up with a similar injury last year in my feet, turned out it was the new shoes I purchased. I usually have to wear extra wide, and these were wide only and for whatever reason were too tight on the top of my feet. Or it's possible I was just lacing them too tight when they were new. About a month into walking/running I ended up with pain in the top of my feet. Doc said extensor tendonitis as well and I was banned from walking/running for about a month. I ignored him switched back to my old shoes, popped some ibuprofen and simply walked slower and managed to work through it. Never thought about planks causing it, was doing about the same back then as I do now. But it's always possible they were causing it coupled with those shoes. Have not had issues since but have to be careful how tight my shoes are when I lace them up.
I got impatient with the program I was doing when I first joined the challenge in February and started doing my own thing (strike one!), increased duration pretty quickly (strike two!), and wasn't taking breaks regularly (strike three!). My doc just told me to take some IB and take it easy until it stopped hurting - so basically the same thing you did. I only got it in my left foot for whatever reason - my doc thought it was because my feet are slightly more asymmetrical than normal but I didn't feel like paying for a specialist to find out more.0 -
might i suggest not wearing shoes when you plank0
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also consider changing how you tie your shoes so the top of your feet feel less pressure overall during the day0
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »my doc thought it was because my feet are slightly more asymmetrical than normal but I didn't feel like paying for a specialist to find out more.
Join the crowd lol. I have so many issues with my knees, lower back, nerves in my left leg from nerve damage (previous disc injury - I can't stand on my tip toes with my left food any more - called foot drop), and to top that off I had to wear braces to straighten my legs when I was younger lol. Add all that up and there are plenty of reasons I shouldn't be running. But honestly, until pain or injury stop me permanently I'm gonna do it lol. So when docs tell me I shouldn't be doing something I take it in stride and do my best to prove them wrong. My ortho doc that did my surgery gets miffed at me sometimes then turns around and tells me its good to walk 30 minutes a day. I just tell him whatever, give me the damn steroid shots and lets get this over with. (luckily none of that since 2016 so don't want to jinx myself now).
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also consider changing how you tie your shoes so the top of your feet feel less pressure overall during the day
I'm strictly a boots and barefoot girl during the day - working from home has its perks!0 -
Agreed. Less than 10 miles a week, speedwork isn't really a good idea. Your plan is very conservative. Too conservative for me, but I'm not lifting three days a week either. You'll get faster with more miles. Maybe increase to 4-5 miles a day, 3 days a week?0
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