do i have to lose pounds to look thinner ?
Replies
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kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
While I guess I mostly agree with both of you, it's unrealistic in this day and age, and in this industry.
The minute you judge something as better, people take that to be a judgement AGAINST the opposite. That's just where we are right now, at least on social media/internet. So the very second you do something the slightest bit outside of just providing information is the same second someone is going to be bothered by what you say.
Even mmapags comment... "better muscle development"... better can be interpreted as subjective/judgmental. Muscular development can be viewed as "bulky". "more muscle development" would have had less potential for offense. I agree it stupid, but appearance and body image and self esteem and all the rest isn't exactly logical for many people.
IMO, as a poster... choose your words carefully, but accept that someone isn't going to like it.
IMO, as a reader... try to understand the point being made, don't focus on the words being used.5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
I feel like some sour grapes may be involved in the "she's not better" proclamation.11 -
kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
I, agree with @sardelsa when she bristles at the comment because she internalizes it as people saying that picture #3 is not considered an appropriate goal; but, why is it incorrect for @Francl27 to bristle at the implication that picture #1 is not considered good enough?
Maybe Staci and @sardelsa and most of my MFP friends want to look more like #3 than #1 and maybe @Francl27 wants to look like #1; but I don't see where there is anything wrong with **either** look given that they are both perfectly within the healthy range as far as I can tell.5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
I, agree with @sardelsa when she bristles at the comment because she internalizes it as people saying that picture #3 not considered an appropriate goal; but, why is it incorrect for @Francl27 to bristle at the implication that picture #1 is not considered good enough?
Maybe Staci and Sardelsa and most of my MFP friends want to look more like #3 than #1 and maybe Francl27 wants to look like #1; but I don't see where there is anything wrong with **either** look given that they are both perfectly within the healthy range as far as I can tell.
To me it's about looking at a progress photo and saying she looked better before. What if @Francl27 you posted a progress photo and someone said you looked better in the before? What if people say "You look amazing and fit!" someone looks like your before, is that body shaming, should they be offended since that implies they do not look amazing and are unfit? Of course not.
I don't think that person looks bad in the before, she looks great...but clearly she made a transformation, she changed her body composition and is happy with her results. I have photos of me before I started this bulk, then after... I mean, I look leaner in the before but that doesn't mean I look bad in either, it's about my progress. Maybe the word "better" is the issue here.8 -
I don't think it's the use of the word better. I think it's the interpretation that whatever isn't better is necessarily terrible or ugly or unacceptable or...7
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Exactly. Think about it grammatically...
We use the word "better" because "gooder" isn't a word. The definition of better is actually "more excellent"
But when egos and self esteem enter the picture, that distinction gets lost.6 -
Some people lose a little bit of weight and look like they have lost a lot, others lose a lot of weight and looks like they haven't lost much at all - depending on where that weight has come off from. For example, I tend to lose/gain weight around my face first, making even minor weight fluctuations look very noticeable.
Additionally, weightloss can be masked (on the scale) by huge variety of things, but you cannot mask clothes getting baggier and no longer fitting the same.
Same.
The difference between my highest and lowest weights has only been about 18-20 lbs. Even at photos with only a 15 difference, I look like a dramatically different person because so much of the weight is in my face and it's extremely unflattering. I hate it, it makes me paranoid of gaining even a couple lbs because they 'ruin' my face shape right away. The rest goes to my legs, and nothing to my upper body. I have friends whose face doesn't change at all with weight gain and who have such balanced body shapes that they basically become just more voluptous hourglasses. Was always jealous of them lol.2 -
Exactly. Think about it grammatically...
We use the word "better" because "gooder" isn't a word. The definition of better is actually "more excellent"
But when egos and self esteem enter the picture, that distinction gets lost.
Yeah no. Because the opposite of 'better' is 'not as good, lesser'. And that's, again, completely subjective, and has nothing to do with egos and self esteem. But whatever you need to make you feel better about yourself I guess.11 -
Exactly. Think about it grammatically...
We use the word "better" because "gooder" isn't a word. The definition of better is actually "more excellent"
But when egos and self esteem enter the picture, that distinction gets lost.
Yeah no. Because the opposite of 'better' is 'not as good, lesser'. And that's, again, completely subjective, and has nothing to do with egos and self esteem. But whatever you need to make you feel better about yourself I guess.
Yes, dear.4 -
Exactly. Think about it grammatically...
We use the word "better" because "gooder" isn't a word. The definition of better is actually "more excellent"
But when egos and self esteem enter the picture, that distinction gets lost.
Yeah no. Because the opposite of 'better' is 'not as good, lesser'. And that's, again, completely subjective, and has nothing to do with egos and self esteem. But whatever you need to make you feel better about yourself I guess.
This is a fitness and diet site. The scale of better or not as good, lesser is fitness. The young woman's picture on the right shows demonstrably better fitness. More muscle development, better posture, leaner. She looks healthier and more functional than she was in the picture on the right. That is not subjective by any stretch.
Based on the measure of fitness, she looks better in the picture on the right. If the zombie apocalypse breaks out, the woman in the picture on the right is an asset. I'd want her on my team. The woman in the picture on the left is a liability. Not as good shape. Not as functional. So yeah, not as good.
FTR, my words were chosen very carefully.13 -
kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
No, it's really not.
People post progress pictures on the internet so you can see their progress in comparison to themselves.
She looks better compared to how she did before, and it's her progress.
You don't get to rain on that woman's parade with your issues.
Statements about "better" or anything are in relation to her work and her appearance only and have nothing to do with you.16 -
kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
I, agree with @sardelsa when she bristles at the comment because she internalizes it as people saying that picture #3 not considered an appropriate goal; but, why is it incorrect for @Francl27 to bristle at the implication that picture #1 is not considered good enough?
Maybe Staci and Sardelsa and most of my MFP friends want to look more like #3 than #1 and maybe Francl27 wants to look like #1; but I don't see where there is anything wrong with **either** look given that they are both perfectly within the healthy range as far as I can tell.
To me it's about looking at a progress photo and saying she looked better before. What if @Francl27 you posted a progress photo and someone said you looked better in the before? What if people say "You look amazing and fit!" someone looks like your before, is that body shaming, should they be offended since that implies they do not look amazing and are unfit? Of course not.
I don't think that person looks bad in the before, she looks great...but clearly she made a transformation, she changed her body composition and is happy with her results. I have photos of me before I started this bulk, then after... I mean, I look leaner in the before but that doesn't mean I look bad in either, it's about my progress. Maybe the word "better" is the issue here.
Agreed completely.
It's not like you're comparing two people and comparing them to each other.
People are inserting themselves into this.
Progress pictures are about progress. You are supposed to look better as you progress. That's the goal.8 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
No, it's really not.
People post progress pictures on the internet so you can see their progress in comparison to themselves.
She looks better compared to how she did before, and it's her progress.
You don't get to rain on that woman's parade with your issues.
Statements about "better" or anything are in relation to her work and her appearance only and have nothing to do with you.
*like*3 -
nettiklive wrote: »Some people lose a little bit of weight and look like they have lost a lot, others lose a lot of weight and looks like they haven't lost much at all - depending on where that weight has come off from. For example, I tend to lose/gain weight around my face first, making even minor weight fluctuations look very noticeable.
Additionally, weightloss can be masked (on the scale) by huge variety of things, but you cannot mask clothes getting baggier and no longer fitting the same.
Same.
The difference between my highest and lowest weights has only been about 18-20 lbs. Even at photos with only a 15 difference, I look like a dramatically different person because so much of the weight is in my face and it's extremely unflattering. I hate it, it makes me paranoid of gaining even a couple lbs because they 'ruin' my face shape right away. The rest goes to my legs, and nothing to my upper body. I have friends whose face doesn't change at all with weight gain and who have such balanced body shapes that they basically become just more voluptous hourglasses. Was always jealous of them lol.
Don't be jealous, the downside of a face that looks great when you're extremely heavy is that weight can really creep up on you. I have a close friend who is like this - she was "pretty" when she weighed 400 lbs, and because she was always "the pretty one" she thought of herself that way long after her weight became unhealthy. It took a major health crisis for her to realize she needed to take her weight seriously and by that time she had a long road ahead of her.
OP, if you look better, you look better! Take before and after pictures, they help confirm differences are not just in your imagination.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
There are no dates. Is it left to right, or right to left, for the before and after sequence?1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
I, agree with @sardelsa when she bristles at the comment because she internalizes it as people saying that picture #3 not considered an appropriate goal; but, why is it incorrect for @Francl27 to bristle at the implication that picture #1 is not considered good enough?
Maybe Staci and Sardelsa and most of my MFP friends want to look more like #3 than #1 and maybe Francl27 wants to look like #1; but I don't see where there is anything wrong with **either** look given that they are both perfectly within the healthy range as far as I can tell.
To me it's about looking at a progress photo and saying she looked better before. What if @Francl27 you posted a progress photo and someone said you looked better in the before? What if people say "You look amazing and fit!" someone looks like your before, is that body shaming, should they be offended since that implies they do not look amazing and are unfit? Of course not.
I don't think that person looks bad in the before, she looks great...but clearly she made a transformation, she changed her body composition and is happy with her results. I have photos of me before I started this bulk, then after... I mean, I look leaner in the before but that doesn't mean I look bad in either, it's about my progress. Maybe the word "better" is the issue here.
Agreed completely.
It's not like you're comparing two people and comparing them to each other.
People are inserting themselves into this.
Progress pictures are about progress. You are supposed to look better as you progress. That's the goal.
The presence of the double standard still amazes me.
"Fit shaming" is deemed acceptable among people with insecurities and body issues, but fat shaming is strictly taboo and roundly condemned. The latter is considered "body shaming", the former apparently not so (at least by some).
If somebody was to go into a thread in the Success Stories forum and crap on somebody's thread where they've gone from 320 to 280 lbs by posting "She really doesn't look any better in the after pic", there would be a vicious dogpile and the post would probably (and rightfully) be reported about 100 times. Yet I've seen a number of threads over the years where people posted progress pics similar to the ones of Staci above and somebody will make a comment to the effect of "Ugh, that's too bulky, I'd never want to get like that!".
You don't get to have it both ways. If something doesn't fit your personal taste for aesthetics, keep it to yourself. Don't try to assuage your own insecurities/body issues by tearing somebody else's down. Because you certainly wouldn't like it if the shoe was on the other foot.19 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
I, agree with @sardelsa when she bristles at the comment because she internalizes it as people saying that picture #3 not considered an appropriate goal; but, why is it incorrect for @Francl27 to bristle at the implication that picture #1 is not considered good enough?
Maybe Staci and Sardelsa and most of my MFP friends want to look more like #3 than #1 and maybe Francl27 wants to look like #1; but I don't see where there is anything wrong with **either** look given that they are both perfectly within the healthy range as far as I can tell.
To me it's about looking at a progress photo and saying she looked better before. What if @Francl27 you posted a progress photo and someone said you looked better in the before? What if people say "You look amazing and fit!" someone looks like your before, is that body shaming, should they be offended since that implies they do not look amazing and are unfit? Of course not.
I don't think that person looks bad in the before, she looks great...but clearly she made a transformation, she changed her body composition and is happy with her results. I have photos of me before I started this bulk, then after... I mean, I look leaner in the before but that doesn't mean I look bad in either, it's about my progress. Maybe the word "better" is the issue here.
Agreed completely.
It's not like you're comparing two people and comparing them to each other.
People are inserting themselves into this.
Progress pictures are about progress. You are supposed to look better as you progress. That's the goal.
The presence of the double standard still amazes me.
"Fit shaming" is deemed acceptable among people with insecurities and body issues, but fat shaming is strictly taboo and roundly condemned. The latter is considered "body shaming", the former apparently not so (at least by some).
If somebody was to go into a thread in the Success Stories forum and crap on somebody's thread where they've gone from 320 to 280 lbs by posting "She really doesn't look any better in the after pic", there would be a vicious dogpile and the post would probably (and rightfully) be reported about 100 times. Yet I've seen a number of threads over the years where people posted progress pics similar to the ones of Staci above and somebody will make a comment to the effect of "Ugh, that's too bulky, I'd never want to get like that!".
You don't get to have it both ways. If something doesn't fit your personal taste for aesthetics, keep it to yourself. Don't try to assuage your own insecurities/body issues by tearing somebody else's down. Because you certainly wouldn't like it if the shoe was on the other foot.
We really do need that awesome button back.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »She GAINED 18 pounds and looks better:
Lots of time working out was involved.
Got to disagree about 'better'.
While I do understand you have an opinion, I believe negativity about physique transformations should be kept to oneself especially when it comes to before/afters.
Exactly. That's why I posted what I did. Saying that she looks better in the third picture is just as shaming for women who look like picture #1. I don't hate on neither and definitely appreciate the work it took to get to #3... but what looks better is totally subjective.
But yes, lots of people gain muscle and lose fat and end up weighing more with a smaller size - because muscle is denser than fat.
Personally, I think the shaming thing is nonsense. The young lady in the pictures shows better muscle development, body shape and posture in the 3rd picture. She looks healthier and fitter. Whether one likes that look or not, those are objective observations.
I, agree with @sardelsa when she bristles at the comment because she internalizes it as people saying that picture #3 not considered an appropriate goal; but, why is it incorrect for @Francl27 to bristle at the implication that picture #1 is not considered good enough?
Maybe Staci and Sardelsa and most of my MFP friends want to look more like #3 than #1 and maybe Francl27 wants to look like #1; but I don't see where there is anything wrong with **either** look given that they are both perfectly within the healthy range as far as I can tell.
To me it's about looking at a progress photo and saying she looked better before. What if @Francl27 you posted a progress photo and someone said you looked better in the before? What if people say "You look amazing and fit!" someone looks like your before, is that body shaming, should they be offended since that implies they do not look amazing and are unfit? Of course not.
I don't think that person looks bad in the before, she looks great...but clearly she made a transformation, she changed her body composition and is happy with her results. I have photos of me before I started this bulk, then after... I mean, I look leaner in the before but that doesn't mean I look bad in either, it's about my progress. Maybe the word "better" is the issue here.
Agreed completely.
It's not like you're comparing two people and comparing them to each other.
People are inserting themselves into this.
Progress pictures are about progress. You are supposed to look better as you progress. That's the goal.
The presence of the double standard still amazes me.
"Fit shaming" is deemed acceptable among people with insecurities and body issues, but fat shaming is strictly taboo and roundly condemned. The latter is considered "body shaming", the former apparently not so (at least by some).
If somebody was to go into a thread in the Success Stories forum and crap on somebody's thread where they've gone from 320 to 280 lbs by posting "She really doesn't look any better in the after pic", there would be a vicious dogpile and the post would probably (and rightfully) be reported about 100 times. Yet I've seen a number of threads over the years where people posted progress pics similar to the ones of Staci above and somebody will make a comment to the effect of "Ugh, that's too bulky, I'd never want to get like that!".
You don't get to have it both ways. If something doesn't fit your personal taste for aesthetics, keep it to yourself. Don't try to assuage your own insecurities/body issues by tearing somebody else's down. Because you certainly wouldn't like it if the shoe was on the other foot.
Yeah but... people who would go to success stories and poop on someone's parade would be *kitten*. THAT would be really just a very *kitten* thing to do.
The person here was posting someone else's picture and giving her own opinion about what looks better. This is the general fitness and DIET discussion. I was just pointing out that 'better' is subjective and really, this thread is about looking thinner, not more muscular. I mean, if someone had said that the first picture didn't look as good, would you be ok with it? Would you be up in arms crying about how it's 'fat shaming'? (obviously, she was never fat, but I'm sure someone out there would use that dumb 'skinny fat' term).
Really though... get over yourselves. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they have issues. I mean... really? do you really think that people are insecure or have body issues just because they don't aim for that muscular look anyway? Who's trying to make themselves feel better here? You're all just insulting people who have an average body type by coming out of nowhere and saying that a muscular person looks better than the average joe. But whatever. I'm too old to argue with self-centered, narrow minded people.
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