Increasing DL
peaceout_aly
Posts: 2,018 Member
Hey ya'll! So I have a powerlifting meet on July 14th and have been prepping like crazy. I am following a program curated by a fellow powerlifter at my gym, and am very excited about it. I have recently hit DL, squat and bench PR's along with being able to rep what I was maxing at last meet. My squats and bench seem to improve much quicker than my DL, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had this same issue? I see fellow powerlifters pulling 2-3 x their squat weight, but in my case, my squat PR is significantly more than my DL PR. Makes me feel like something is off.
I'm 4' 11", 113 lbs. (dropping to 111 lbs. for the meet)
Bench: 95 lbs. (honestly haven't tested a PR in a while, this is what I can do 2x on my 5th set), Squat: 245 lbs.
Deadlift: 215 lbs. (on a FRESH day...if I deadlifted within the past week I can only hit 210 lbs.)
Also, I pull conventional with an alternative grip. Any tips would be helpful!
I'm 4' 11", 113 lbs. (dropping to 111 lbs. for the meet)
Bench: 95 lbs. (honestly haven't tested a PR in a while, this is what I can do 2x on my 5th set), Squat: 245 lbs.
Deadlift: 215 lbs. (on a FRESH day...if I deadlifted within the past week I can only hit 210 lbs.)
Also, I pull conventional with an alternative grip. Any tips would be helpful!
1
Replies
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How much you pull relative to your other lifts depends in part on your leverages. In my experience most people DL more than they squat, but some squat more than they DL. It may be a function of how your body is built.
It might also be a function of your programming. Broadly speaking, a common way to increase DL weight is to program more DLs. That might be something you can discuss with the person who programs for you.
How many people have you seen pulling 2-3x their squat weight? I've never seen that tbh.1 -
I found that being sure to set my lats, shoulders back and down slightly, and load up my tension throughout my whole BEFORE bending down to the bar, made a huge difference. As I bend to grab the bar, I imagine as if I'm a coil building up ready to explode once I grab the bar.
If I try to set myself when I'm down holding the bar, I have little power.
Doing that, jumped me from a tough 215 to an easy 237.
2 -
I agree that deadlifting more helps. After my heaviest set on my DL day I always do 3x5-8 at a lower weight. I also DL multiple times a week, including as an accessory on my squat day.0
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I DL more than I squat...and I think that is partially due to how often and how hard I hit back. I do heavy shoulders/back 1 day...and high rep shoulders/back after heavy bench. Sometimes, I throw in extra heavy back after DLs just for fun. I dl less volume than I squat. My squat was "weak" due to minor form issues. I needed to increase volume to bring my squat up. Yoy might need more volume with dl. My form tends to break down after 5-8 reps. I use a trap bar for high rep dls.
Also (as much as I hate it), isolating hamstrings may help too.
I don't think that your DL is significantly less than your squat. I'm at 275 dl/215 squat.0 -
KickassAmazon76 wrote: »I found that being sure to set my lats, shoulders back and down slightly, and load up my tension throughout my whole BEFORE bending down to the bar, made a huge difference. As I bend to grab the bar, I imagine as if I'm a coil building up ready to explode once I grab the bar.
If I try to set myself when I'm down holding the bar, I have little power.
Doing that, jumped me from a tough 215 to an easy 237.
I follow the same cues and set ups. It made me go from a bendy back pull to a nice steel rod. Something I do for a warm up to activate my lats. Is grab a resistance band, hold it infront of me and do reverse flys focussing on the lat squeeze. I then color the same motion prior to my lift.
It can also just as easily be your programming or leverages. I'd get your trainer to take a look at it and see if they can turn things to be more deadlift orientated.0 -
KickassAmazon76 wrote: »I found that being sure to set my lats, shoulders back and down slightly, and load up my tension throughout my whole BEFORE bending down to the bar, made a huge difference. As I bend to grab the bar, I imagine as if I'm a coil building up ready to explode once I grab the bar.
If I try to set myself when I'm down holding the bar, I have little power.
Doing that, jumped me from a tough 215 to an easy 237.
I follow the same cues and set ups. It made me go from a bendy back pull to a nice steel rod. Something I do for a warm up to activate my lats. Is grab a resistance band, hold it infront of me and do reverse flys focussing on the lat squeeze. I then color the same motion prior to my lift.
It can also just as easily be your programming or leverages. I'd get your trainer to take a look at it and see if they can turn things to be more deadlift orientated.
This is the exact movement my coach used to help me understand what he was saying when kept repeating... Shoulders back and down, back and down, set your lats. Tight! And I was all... I AM DAMNIT.
Then he showed me this and it was like... OHHHH THAT'S WHAT YOU MEANT
haha2 -
KickassAmazon76 wrote: »KickassAmazon76 wrote: »I found that being sure to set my lats, shoulders back and down slightly, and load up my tension throughout my whole BEFORE bending down to the bar, made a huge difference. As I bend to grab the bar, I imagine as if I'm a coil building up ready to explode once I grab the bar.
If I try to set myself when I'm down holding the bar, I have little power.
Doing that, jumped me from a tough 215 to an easy 237.
I follow the same cues and set ups. It made me go from a bendy back pull to a nice steel rod. Something I do for a warm up to activate my lats. Is grab a resistance band, hold it infront of me and do reverse flys focussing on the lat squeeze. I then color the same motion prior to my lift.
It can also just as easily be your programming or leverages. I'd get your trainer to take a look at it and see if they can turn things to be more deadlift orientated.
This is the exact movement my coach used to help me understand what he was saying when kept repeating... Shoulders back and down, back and down, set your lats. Tight! And I was all... I AM DAMNIT.
Then he showed me this and it was like... OHHHH THAT'S WHAT YOU MEANT
haha
Whew I am glad I am doing something right Then haha. It also works great prior to bench and squats. All time favourite warm up.0 -
KickassAmazon76 wrote: »I found that being sure to set my lats, shoulders back and down slightly, and load up my tension throughout my whole BEFORE bending down to the bar, made a huge difference. As I bend to grab the bar, I imagine as if I'm a coil building up ready to explode once I grab the bar.
If I try to set myself when I'm down holding the bar, I have little power.
Doing that, jumped me from a tough 215 to an easy 237.
OMG! Thank you for posting this. I tried it this morning and things felt a little lighter! I am going to have to work on this some more!
4 -
KickassAmazon76 wrote: »I found that being sure to set my lats, shoulders back and down slightly, and load up my tension throughout my whole BEFORE bending down to the bar, made a huge difference. As I bend to grab the bar, I imagine as if I'm a coil building up ready to explode once I grab the bar.
If I try to set myself when I'm down holding the bar, I have little power.
Doing that, jumped me from a tough 215 to an easy 237.
OMG! Thank you for posting this. I tried it this morning and things felt a little lighter! I am going to have to work on this some more!
YEAH!!!! That's awesome! Keep updating us, k?
0 -
Definitely going to try that @KickassAmazon76 Tomorrow is my deadlift and squat day so I'm pumped to put your tips & tricks into action. Someone at my gym mentioned incorporating rack pulls to up the DL - if I do this, should I do it on my heavy leg day, or my "accessory" leg day?0
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peaceout_aly wrote: »Definitely going to try that @KickassAmazon76 Tomorrow is my deadlift and squat day so I'm pumped to put your tips & tricks into action. Someone at my gym mentioned incorporating rack pulls to up the DL - if I do this, should I do it on my heavy leg day, or my "accessory" leg day?
Rack pulls are much more back and trap orientated. I'd personally perform them on the accessory day to prevent compromising your heavy lifts and over taxing your CNS2 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »I see fellow powerlifters pulling 2-3 x their squat weight
If someone is pulling 2-3x what they squat they're probably very novice lifters who haven't quite figured out the squat yet. Many people have an easier time with either the squat or the deadlift, but overall they're not usually that far apart % wise in raw lifting once a lifter is proficient with the lifts. According to Greg Nuckols 2/3 of IPF lifters squat 80-100% of their DL. At my last meet I squatted 160 and DL 197.5 (Squat 81% of DL), the woman just behind me with a completely different build squatted 152.5 and pulled 157.5 (Squat 97% of DL). Meghan Scanlon a former 63kg American record holder in the squat competed at the Arnold and squatted 182.5 and DL 175 (Squat 104% of DL.) Where I'm going with all of this... Your squat is 113% of your deadlift so yes there is room to bring it up, but it's not crazy imbalanced.
If you have someone coaching you then I would follow their program through the meet. Adding extra volume or accessories willy nilly can increase fatigue and mess up your program and peak. I also generally prefer block pulls to rack pulls since the start is more similar to actual deadlifts, and they don't mess up bars the way rack pulls do. You'd also want to look at why you're adding them so you can determine block or bar height etc. Overload? Sticking ROM work? back accessory? (that I would do a rack pull with a *kitten* bar) Masturbatory? (really high with a *kitten* ton of weight that won't actually help your dl?)
I think working on bracing and maintaining tightness as others have mentioned, and possible form adjustments is the way to go moving forward in order to keep your programming in line. There are several resources for form checks as well, or you could post here. A video can go a long way in diagnosing an issue. After your meet is the time to experiment with volume and different accessory work based on your weaknesses.5 -
No need for me to add, since all these comments have been great.
And, yes, many deadlift more than they squat. But there are notalbe, successful, heavy lifters who squat more than they dead -- you are not alone.0 -
I definitely felt like the only one who has a squat PR > DL PR. Thanks for the support everyone! Took a program day off yesterday and instead just hit 185 for 3x8 focusing on bracing and tightness. Definitely feel it today. Anxious to add that set up and focus into my routine. Thanks everyone!0
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@peaceout_aly - bracing and being tight af is going to help you heeps and heeps. Brian Alsruhe has some awesome youtube videos on how to bench, how to squat and how to dead lift. His videos are my favorites....but the key is to find something that works for you and stick with it. Can't have too many chefs in the kitchen, right?
How do you pull - conventional or sumo? Dang, you answered that question already: conventional. Not the time to change anything, but most can pull more sumo (I speak theoretically as I have *NEVER* pulled sumo in my life!). You might want to try that......add it in your training. I am going to do that....speak with your coach, naturally, but pulling 'the other way' every now and again helps! So I have heard from some really smart people .......
And, I was going to suggest block pulls instead of rack pulls.....rack pulls will *f**k* up the bar and the gym where you train will not be happy. Unless they have a specific "rack pull" bar! Then, if you are going to include those, have at it!
One thing that I found that really helps my dead lift is strong lats. When I first broke 365lbs my lats hurt like heck. I "protect my pits" | "bend the bar" like a mad man.....and at the higher weights the lats play a role...at least, they do for me.
As you well know, DLs strongly affect the CNS and might require a bit longer recovery period. We are all different....so, that may or may not apply to you. Adding more volume now might not be a good idea....you are essentially one month away! Now is not likely the time for that (but, your coach would be the right person to answer that thought).
If I might - I would suggest to trust the process you have in place. Don't change anything (necessarily) at this point. Inside one month! Getting close to "deload".
And, props to you! Look at those numbers compared to your total body weight!!!!!
If you do not mind me asking, in what "federation" are you lifting? I am in USAPL.....card-carrying member!
And, final note - you are a freak! Squatting more than you dead lift! LOL! I think that you will find that likely 85% of people dead lift more than they squat. Think about it.....dead lift is way more natural - in terms of body movement - than a squat is. I mean, when in the heck do we have a bar on our back with a bunch of weight on it and have to squat down and then stand up again. Not very often. But, we "dead lift" all the time.
But - and this is the key - each of these movements is a skill in and of itself. With several 'sticking points' along the way and several queues (like "protect my pits" | "bend the bar"). You have simply mastered the skills associated with the squat a little bit better than those associated with the dead lift.
Lift heavy! Be strong!! Kick *kitten*!!!1 -
LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »@peaceout_aly - bracing and being tight af is going to help you heeps and heeps. Brian Alsruhe has some awesome youtube videos on how to bench, how to squat and how to dead lift. His videos are my favorites....but the key is to find something that works for you and stick with it. Can't have too many chefs in the kitchen, right?
How do you pull - conventional or sumo? Dang, you answered that question already: conventional. Not the time to change anything, but most can pull more sumo (I speak theoretically as I have *NEVER* pulled sumo in my life!). You might want to try that......add it in your training. I am going to do that....speak with your coach, naturally, but pulling 'the other way' every now and again helps! So I have heard from some really smart people .......
And, I was going to suggest block pulls instead of rack pulls.....rack pulls will *f**k* up the bar and the gym where you train will not be happy. Unless they have a specific "rack pull" bar! Then, if you are going to include those, have at it!
One thing that I found that really helps my dead lift is strong lats. When I first broke 365lbs my lats hurt like heck. I "protect my pits" | "bend the bar" like a mad man.....and at the higher weights the lats play a role...at least, they do for me.
As you well know, DLs strongly affect the CNS and might require a bit longer recovery period. We are all different....so, that may or may not apply to you. Adding more volume now might not be a good idea....you are essentially one month away! Now is not likely the time for that (but, your coach would be the right person to answer that thought).
If I might - I would suggest to trust the process you have in place. Don't change anything (necessarily) at this point. Inside one month! Getting close to "deload".
And, props to you! Look at those numbers compared to your total body weight!!!!!
If you do not mind me asking, in what "federation" are you lifting? I am in USAPL.....card-carrying member!
And, final note - you are a freak! Squatting more than you dead lift! LOL! I think that you will find that likely 85% of people dead lift more than they squat. Think about it.....dead lift is way more natural - in terms of body movement - than a squat is. I mean, when in the heck do we have a bar on our back with a bunch of weight on it and have to squat down and then stand up again. Not very often. But, we "dead lift" all the time.
But - and this is the key - each of these movements is a skill in and of itself. With several 'sticking points' along the way and several queues (like "protect my pits" | "bend the bar"). You have simply mastered the skills associated with the squat a little bit better than those associated with the dead lift.
Lift heavy! Be strong!! Kick *kitten*!!!
Every time I've tried to pull sumo I end up busting the heck outta my knees. That's one of my goals post-meet is to start attempting sumo a bit more. I've heard it's better for building glutes along with people being able to pull more, especially at my height. I'm the only girl in my weight class that pulled conventional LOL. I'm part of USAPL! I'll be at the Rumble on Pratt St., not sure if you'll be attending but it's a pretty fun meet on the East Coast! Thank you so much for all the tips, putting this into action today!!!0 -
I'm just getting started with strength again, myself Doing the PHAT routine. 2 days a week I do power lifts. At this point, I can definitely squat more than I can DL. DL is at 245 and stuck currently and Squat is at 275 and could go up. But I do believe if I acquired hooks, I could probably pull as much or more than I squat. My road block with DL is grip strength not the posterior chain. Chalk and switch grip helps. But Honestly I want to progress my DL without the use the hand hooks. If it takes longer it takes longer. I just wanted to chime and say thanks for the suggestions, I'm trying to improve my DL as well. Definitely gonna try the lat and band warm up thing. I recently start adding weight to my pullups and I'm hoping that will help strengthen my DL as well.1
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peaceout_aly wrote: »Hey ya'll! So I have a powerlifting meet on July 14th and have been prepping like crazy. I am following a program curated by a fellow powerlifter at my gym, and am very excited about it. I have recently hit DL, squat and bench PR's along with being able to rep what I was maxing at last meet. My squats and bench seem to improve much quicker than my DL, and I'm wondering if anyone else has had this same issue? I see fellow powerlifters pulling 2-3 x their squat weight, but in my case, my squat PR is significantly more than my DL PR. Makes me feel like something is off.
I'm 4' 11", 113 lbs. (dropping to 111 lbs. for the meet)
Bench: 95 lbs. (honestly haven't tested a PR in a while, this is what I can do 2x on my 5th set), Squat: 245 lbs.
Deadlift: 215 lbs. (on a FRESH day...if I deadlifted within the past week I can only hit 210 lbs.)
Also, I pull conventional with an alternative grip. Any tips would be helpful!
I wouldn't be concerned on the differences in your lifts. Only that they are progressing and your technique is improving which obviously is part of the progressive-ness. Also I would never compare myself to others powerlifters. We train, respond, and have different experience and body types/leverages.
There are no tips I can give not knowing your your current level of lifting & programming, how you respond or are resistant to volume or certain lifts, your frequency etc...
I will say if your lifts are stalling 9/10 times by upping your volume it will drive adaptation. This doesn't mean neccessarily your intensity or frequency is too low. It's finding the useful amount of stress at the correct amount of volume that is the trick. It's never the same for everyone, it's highly individually based. Obviously you have a meet coming up soon, your volume will drop and intensity will rise giving you better fitness at the heavier lifts not typically strength though...so maybe something to look at or discuss with your coach after your meet.
Good luck on your upcoming meet.
2 -
At 3x or above BW, are you sure they are not pulling equipped? Apples to apples here.0
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mutantspicy wrote: »I'm just getting started with strength again, myself Doing the PHAT routine. 2 days a week I do power lifts. At this point, I can definitely squat more than I can DL. DL is at 245 and stuck currently and Squat is at 275 and could go up. But I do believe if I acquired hooks, I could probably pull as much or more than I squat. My road block with DL is grip strength not the posterior chain. Chalk and switch grip helps. But Honestly I want to progress my DL without the use the hand hooks. If it takes longer it takes longer. I just wanted to chime and say thanks for the suggestions, I'm trying to improve my DL as well. Definitely gonna try the lat and band warm up thing. I recently start adding weight to my pullups and I'm hoping that will help strengthen my DL as well.
Never use any grip,assistance if you plan to compete up on the platform. Use switch grip a sparing as possible, and when you lockout those heavy singles, hold them as long as you can — and while you’re at it — never bounce a deadlift ever.0 -
giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »I'm just getting started with strength again, myself Doing the PHAT routine. 2 days a week I do power lifts. At this point, I can definitely squat more than I can DL. DL is at 245 and stuck currently and Squat is at 275 and could go up. But I do believe if I acquired hooks, I could probably pull as much or more than I squat. My road block with DL is grip strength not the posterior chain. Chalk and switch grip helps. But Honestly I want to progress my DL without the use the hand hooks. If it takes longer it takes longer. I just wanted to chime and say thanks for the suggestions, I'm trying to improve my DL as well. Definitely gonna try the lat and band warm up thing. I recently start adding weight to my pullups and I'm hoping that will help strengthen my DL as well.
Never use any grip,assistance if you plan to compete up on the platform. Use switch grip a sparing as possible, and when you lockout those heavy singles, hold them as long as you can — and while you’re at it — never bounce a deadlift ever.
100% agree. My grip strength was a problem as I progressed past 315lbs. It (grip strength issue) was at 285lbs or so but through work it went up to 315lbs. I implemented the "hold the bar as long as I could at lock out" on each rep and it really helped over time. And, that was not such a long time....285lbs to 315lbs took about six weeks.
I also used switch grip and did exactly what I feared that I would do - hurt my left bicep (the supinataed hand). Missed three months of gym time.
Anyway, not really doing powerlifting much more....not sure how long that will last. I keep hurting myself (at 51 I forget that I can not work at 85%+ all the time and not take any deload weeks...I feel AMAZING until I hurt myself!).
But, super good advice.0 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »@peaceout_aly - bracing and being tight af is going to help you heeps and heeps. Brian Alsruhe has some awesome youtube videos on how to bench, how to squat and how to dead lift. His videos are my favorites....but the key is to find something that works for you and stick with it. Can't have too many chefs in the kitchen, right?
How do you pull - conventional or sumo? Dang, you answered that question already: conventional. Not the time to change anything, but most can pull more sumo (I speak theoretically as I have *NEVER* pulled sumo in my life!). You might want to try that......add it in your training. I am going to do that....speak with your coach, naturally, but pulling 'the other way' every now and again helps! So I have heard from some really smart people .......
And, I was going to suggest block pulls instead of rack pulls.....rack pulls will *f**k* up the bar and the gym where you train will not be happy. Unless they have a specific "rack pull" bar! Then, if you are going to include those, have at it!
One thing that I found that really helps my dead lift is strong lats. When I first broke 365lbs my lats hurt like heck. I "protect my pits" | "bend the bar" like a mad man.....and at the higher weights the lats play a role...at least, they do for me.
As you well know, DLs strongly affect the CNS and might require a bit longer recovery period. We are all different....so, that may or may not apply to you. Adding more volume now might not be a good idea....you are essentially one month away! Now is not likely the time for that (but, your coach would be the right person to answer that thought).
If I might - I would suggest to trust the process you have in place. Don't change anything (necessarily) at this point. Inside one month! Getting close to "deload".
And, props to you! Look at those numbers compared to your total body weight!!!!!
If you do not mind me asking, in what "federation" are you lifting? I am in USAPL.....card-carrying member!
And, final note - you are a freak! Squatting more than you dead lift! LOL! I think that you will find that likely 85% of people dead lift more than they squat. Think about it.....dead lift is way more natural - in terms of body movement - than a squat is. I mean, when in the heck do we have a bar on our back with a bunch of weight on it and have to squat down and then stand up again. Not very often. But, we "dead lift" all the time.
But - and this is the key - each of these movements is a skill in and of itself. With several 'sticking points' along the way and several queues (like "protect my pits" | "bend the bar"). You have simply mastered the skills associated with the squat a little bit better than those associated with the dead lift.
Lift heavy! Be strong!! Kick *kitten*!!!
Every time I've tried to pull sumo I end up busting the heck outta my knees. That's one of my goals post-meet is to start attempting sumo a bit more. I've heard it's better for building glutes along with people being able to pull more, especially at my height. I'm the only girl in my weight class that pulled conventional LOL. I'm part of USAPL! I'll be at the Rumble on Pratt St., not sure if you'll be attending but it's a pretty fun meet on the East Coast! Thank you so much for all the tips, putting this into action today!!!
I did not go. I am in Winston-Salem, NC and Baltimore, MD is a long haul for me. I am really curious....how did things go for you?0 -
giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »I'm just getting started with strength again, myself Doing the PHAT routine. 2 days a week I do power lifts. At this point, I can definitely squat more than I can DL. DL is at 245 and stuck currently and Squat is at 275 and could go up. But I do believe if I acquired hooks, I could probably pull as much or more than I squat. My road block with DL is grip strength not the posterior chain. Chalk and switch grip helps. But Honestly I want to progress my DL without the use the hand hooks. If it takes longer it takes longer. I just wanted to chime and say thanks for the suggestions, I'm trying to improve my DL as well. Definitely gonna try the lat and band warm up thing. I recently start adding weight to my pullups and I'm hoping that will help strengthen my DL as well.
Never use any grip,assistance if you plan to compete up on the platform. Use switch grip a sparing as possible, and when you lockout those heavy singles, hold them as long as you can — and while you’re at it — never bounce a deadlift ever.
Thanks for the tip. I generally do as many reps as I can over hand and go to switch when I can't hang on. I will try to do the hold at the top and see if my grips improves over time. Just doing DL's period has already made improvements, I've progressively been able to do more reps over hand before having to go to switch.
And thanks for confirming what I already kinda thought, I didn't want to find myself relying on hooks.2 -
KickassAmazon76 wrote: »I found that being sure to set my lats, shoulders back and down slightly, and load up my tension throughout my whole BEFORE bending down to the bar, made a huge difference. As I bend to grab the bar, I imagine as if I'm a coil building up ready to explode once I grab the bar.
If I try to set myself when I'm down holding the bar, I have little power.
Doing that, jumped me from a tough 215 to an easy 237.
Thanks for this -- it helped me. Two weeks ago my top set of one rep @350 felt really tough and like I was letting my back bend. This week three reps @345 felt easy and like my back, shoulders and grip were locked in. For some reason, the image of tightening a coil really helped me stay tight.0
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