Button up buttercup; it's going to be a bumpy ride

CarvedTones

I decided to say this in a new thread instead of responding to an existing one because it would have come off as a personal attack on the OP.

Few people lose to their goal without having some days where they go over, some disappointment at how the scale doesn't move in a linear fashion, some days of self doubt when you wonder if you can really keep this up, some days where you make some food choices that leave you hungry, some loss of motivation and/or other issues that seem like they could do you in.

You need discipline more than motivation. Motivation has a very short shelf life; don't depend on it. Don't let missteps derail you. Don't spend time and energy on excuses and remorse.

If you track calories, and I think you should, don't ever make exceptions. If you have no clue about an item because it was home made or whatever and you couldn't weigh the portion, take a wild guess and log it anyway. I think it is more important to never get in the habit of making exceptions to logging food than it is to always be correct in what you log. But try to always be correct; weigh everything you can.

Don't throw a pity party every time you make a misstep. Just move on. Learn from it and try to minimize missteps. The number of threads with people commiserating about some mistake they made or concern they have about the scale is mind boggling. I think the coddling that goes on in some of those threads is counterproductive. You made a misstep. No, it's not okay to do that, but it's not the end of the world to do something that's not okay. Just don't keep doing it and move on.

CarvedTones

Oops - was supposed to be Buckle up buttercup; it's going to be a bumpy ride...

LosinIt54

Well said, my friend. I fear that a lot of people trying to lose weight, just like in our society, have come to accept mediocrity and complacency as the norm, when in fact those things are completely counterproductive to making yourself the best you can be.
IMHO, long term weight loss is a difficult, lonely, exasperating and frustrating undertaking. Make no mistake, it is one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life. And one of the most rewarding and satisfying accomplishments ever.
I have great respect for people like you that speak the truth. Don’t settle. And to paraphrase Winston Churchill: “Don’t EVER give up. EVER!”
Good Luck to you. I am down to 230 from 280 with 180 as my goal...and I’m 64!

jamiespeight

I would agree, well said, I'm over a month into counting my calories, I've done it in the past but always given up eventually and made the food mistakes that got me to where I am now, I am now really determined and logging every last little bit.

missysippy930

Great observations, and very true OP.

Back at it again is another very common thread.

I didn't allow myself excuses, cheat days/meals, or whatever, while I was losing weight 6 years ago, lost over 1/2 of my body weight, and got to goal within a year. Seeing my progress, losing weight every week, was the incentive to keep on plan. My problem (as with countless other people) was not applying the same diligence and discipline to keeping the weight off, hence, over the past 5 years, I gained back 1/2 of the weight I lost. No longer seeing the weekly loss, I lost my incentive and drive to not over indulge in food. I am the type of person who needs the daily logging and the discipline to get the weight off and maintain the loss. This is the way it has to be for the rest of my life, simple fact.


Thankfully, I came to my senses after gaining back 1/2 the weight I lost, and not all of the weight. For me, losing the weight was hard, but maintaining the loss was harder. I am back at it and determined to keep it off this time. At age 66 there will not be another chance at this for me. This is it!

maureenkhilde

Totally agree whining does nothing, and who wants to listen to someone else whine not me. And I decided enough is enough, I am a type 2 diabetic hello self, get your butt in gear. Listen to self and your Dr;s there are no miracle cures out there. Only I can make it happen to get off or at least to less medications for type 2 Diabetes. So I have become mindful of what I buy. No more processed foods, no more grains, no more sugar. And every food must be weighed before it goes on a plate, and into my mouth. They have some slick portable scales out there.
I will admit just starting on this journey to a much more healthier me. And I know where I slip up the most and will decline those things that tempt me at this point so I will stay away from the so called slippery slope. If others do not like it, I consider it there issue not mine. At almost 60, I too see it as now is the time and I am going to do it.

CarvedTones

I turn 60 later this year; seems this thread is mostly those of us of an age. I think this is probably my last shot at staying healthy. There should still be time for another attempt, but I feel like it would be pretty pointless if I can't do it when I am committed as I am this time. I made goal a couple of months ago and have a BMI below 25. I have lost about 64 pounds. I walk 5+ miles most days. Today I didn't because I paddled a SUP 5.7 miles instead. I want to start my 60s healthy and active. I would also like to finish them that way by not letting the unhealthy habits creep back in. It will certainly increase the odds that my 70s will be healthy and active as well.

I usually don't respond to those "woe is me" threads because I want to tell them to get over it, do the work even when you don't feel like it and the process will work as long as you have a deficit. The really hard ones not to respond to are the ones that are not small, claim to have kept at the lowest recommended calories and plateaued for a long time. One in twenty might have some kind of thyroid problem or other medical issue. The rest of them are lying. Maybe not on purpose; some people eyeball portions and believe fantasy exercise calorie counts or they really believe that not logging that handful of raisins, handful of peanuts, a few chips, etc, is fine and causes no problem. Many of them know exactly why they aren't losing.

Orphia

The ride never ends.

Get used to the fact that you're never going to stay at goal weight. Weight fluctuates daily. I've been in maintenance over 2 years, and daily ups and downs are the status quo.

What's disappointing is the fitness industry's constant spotlight on fast weight loss "success". That's not success. That's setting yourself up to crash and burn.

Learning to eat your favourite foods in moderation at a sustainable calorie limit is learning successful habits for life.

Crash diets don't teach you anything except self-hate and punishment. Not sustainable. Not healthy. Not success.

NovusDies

Person X signs up for MFP and starts logging but not very well. Even still in the first month those scales show a 7lb weight reduction. The second month passes with no progress. If it worked logging that way the first month how does Person X know that is wrong? How is that lying to themselves?

Person Y want to include exercise to help lose weight. Each day a device or machine tells them they have burned 700ish calories. MFP confirms it and ups the amount of calories they have to eat. How does Person Y know they are "fantasy" calories? Does the device wait until after they eat and yell "gotcha"?

I think when someone needs help you should always start from a place of compassion and understanding because you have no idea what led that person to their present situation. If we can't be compassionate to them how can we expect others to be compassionate with us when we need help? Furthermore, I just can't see stereotyping or making a snap judgment about a person based on a few words posted on a message board.

philrtx

If you take it seriously and aren't doddering around, after the first couple of weeks logging and tracking become second nature. I learned how in five minutes, took about a month to form new habits, and have had it on cruise control since. People tend to think in the short term, learn to think in six month blocks instead of six day blocks and things get easier.

Evamutt

well said & I don't understand how ppl who lose 1lbs a week are upset it's not more. I just turned 64 & lost 50 lbs,(want to lose 10 more) haven't been losing anymore but I'm not complaining...it's because most days I eat at maintenance because I enjoy it, so it's all on me

CarvedTones

NovusDies wrote: »

Person X signs up for MFP and starts logging but not very well. Even still in the first month those scales show a 7lb weight reduction. The second month passes with no progress. If it worked logging that way the first month how does Person X know that is wrong? How is that lying to themselves?

Person Y want to include exercise to help lose weight. Each day a device or machine tells them they have burned 700ish calories. MFP confirms it and ups the amount of calories they have to eat. How does Person Y know they are "fantasy" calories? Does the device wait until after they eat and yell "gotcha"?

I think when someone needs help you should always start from a place of compassion and understanding because you have no idea what led that person to their present situation. If we can't be compassionate to them how can we expect others to be compassionate with us when we need help? Furthermore, I just can't see stereotyping or making a snap judgment about a person based on a few words posted on a message board.

They get asked the questions about logging food and exercise pretty quickly, usually in the first 2 or 3 response. But the threads go on and on with the OP saying everything is perfect. That's one kind of thread I am talking about. The other is what I called the "woe is me" where the OP isn't asking a question as much as whining about the process an how hard it is.

I am a very compassionate person, but most of the threads I refer to are complaints without much if any substance.

Ninkasi

When does compassion become enabling, though? People ask questions and get the answer, which is usually some variant of CICO and track your calories, and they don't like the answer so they have endless reasons why it won't work for them or they make a new thread with the same question.

I'll admit, I'm a noob. I'm here on my doctor's suggestion, been logging for 2 months. I'm down 15 pounds. But I read the stickied threads so I know part of that is newbie jump start and I can't expect that forever. I learned how to log my calories (still learning some of the fine points there) and how to plan what I'm going to eat each day (again, still learning). I downloaded a weight tracker app that I plug my data into every morning. Data is power.

In grad school I learned that goals should be SMART - specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and timely. MFP gives you the tools to do that, so why would you want to do some woo-ish thing like a juice "cleanse" or eliminate white foods from your diet? The weight didn't pile on instantly, it won't go away overnight.

I'd like to think of myself as an understanding and compassionate person, but I don't have patience for complaining if a person isn't willing to put in the work and that goes for my job and other real life situations too, not just losing weight with strangers on the internet.

NovusDies

But that is the test of compassion and patience. When someone is feeling miserable with this seemingly insurmountable task in front of them and they have wasted weeks doing something wrong. This is especially when we don't naturally relate to them. It would be easy if everyone was like you.

I guess I am alone in being one of the few people in this thread that has failed at dieting in the past. There have been plenty of times I was willing to do the work but I lacked the knowledge at that time to understand why the scale wasn't moving so I got more and more strict and exercised more and more until it got the better of me. Now I am not much of a whiner but the last thing I needed in that moment was someone trying to smack some sense into me.

Ninkasi

Nah, I'll come clean. I joined MFP a couple years before my doctor suggested it to me...and did nothing. I wasn't ready. But I owned it, didn't post endless threads about how terrible it all was. Just decided "yeah, I'm not ready" and quietly went away.

It's not hard but it does require vigilance, is what I'm learning. I think people expect to fail, which is what makes the unwillingness to take advice all the more frustrating. But on another level, I get how they might be cynical. "I tried all these other things and they didn't work. This sounds too simple." And from what I see for myself and from reading other people's success stories, it *is* simple. Not easy, but it is simple.

I wouldn't ever be mean to someone - you never know what challenges someone else has in their life - but you can say something only so many times and if the person doesn't listen, well, good luck to you. I do think some people troll for attention with their stories. Not all, for sure...but some.

And part of my attitude comes from the fact I work with members of the military. Excuses are not considered - you are expected to learn from your mistakes and make progress. I know it can seem a little hard-nosed but I confess I'm a results oriented person. I don't feel like I've been around long enough yet to give advice. Maybe in a year or so. But I am a scientist and when different people give good advice to someone and get fluffed off, I feel bad for that person because they've wasted time on woo, why not take this good suggestion? Make it easier for yourself, not harder.

alteredsteve175

missysippy930 wrote: »

I am the type of person who needs the daily logging and the discipline to get the weight off and maintain the loss. This is the way it has to be for the rest of my life, simple fact.

Heard that. Recognized myself in that observation.

It was hard to get this far. I'm not going to go through it again. Thanks for the reminder.

CarvedTones

@NovusDies - I haven't failed at losing weight when I was careful about what I ate not exceeding what I burned. I have failed at discipline to keep going until I hit goal and I have failed at maintenance. I am committed to this time being different. Two months into maintenance, I am down maybe a pound or two, but still within my range. It's still early, but that hasn't happened before. There was no mystery as to what caused failures in the past.

hippysprout

I'm not sure the point of this thread is compassion. I'm not sure the point of this website/app is compassion. The point is self-accountability.

If someone needs guidance because they aren't losing weight, there are more than enough people here who are willing to impart their hard-won wisdom, guide that person, even mentor them, so it's not a matter of there being too little compassion in this place. Go have a wander through the threads and you will see compassion, followed by a great deal of OP's denying the advice and guidance they supposedly needed so badly. Very rarely do you see an "ah-ha!" moment in any of these threads where the OP realizes where they are going wrong and attempts to fix it.

I've tried losing weight many times, and failed many times but it wasn't because there weren't enough hugs to see me through - it was solely because I was willfully blind to balancing what I ate and how much I moved. No amount of compassion ever fixed that for me. It wasn't until I knocked some sense into myself that I fell into a frame of mind that I know will see me through. I'm not trying to lose 20 lbs in a week because I need to fit into a dress, or 30lbs by next month so I can wear my bikini at the beach or any of the other senseless reasons that inevitably lead to failure. I'm just doing a little better, every day, till forever and I'm doing it for my health and peace of mind. Every other benefit is just a bonus. If I have a day I go over, I take responsibility and I do better tomorrow. I'll certainly never post a thread to get affirmation that I did nothing wrong when I already know that I did.

If I stop losing weight and getting stronger, there will be no mystery about why. I'll re-evaluate and hold myself accountable for that balancing act. I guess I'm pretty cold-hearted too, because if I see someone on my friend list with bad habits, a bad attitude, or flittering around in a woe-is-me fairy fit, I will absolutely remove them from my friend list immediately. I'm here to get healthy, not skinny, and that takes a positive environment, and discipline.

NovusDies

I have seen several ah-ha moments in my short time here. I have also seen people who were already so shut down they weren't ready for advice they just want to rant/vent. Often times these people have been under the impression they had to eat "healthy" or "diet" food and they are sick of it. Accountability is important but so is picking the right path. You can go at a slight incline to get to your goal or you can deprive yourself and be stuck climbing stairs the whole time. As a former stair climber I can tell you no amount of determination, willpower, accountability, or discipline is going to last for long when the scale doesn't move.

Also, I didn't say there was no compassion here. There is plenty and as it should be. I was responding to the "no crying in baseball" comments earlier in the thread.

AnnPT77

Compassion is an attitude toward others. Enabling is a strategy, or maybe a set of actions. Compassion need not involve enabling. OP, when you think people need a bit of a face-slap, I'd encourage you to administer the tough love (if and only if you're up for it). Different people respond best to different strategies. Different experienced "old hand" posters deliver different strategies. That's a good thing.

Even people who're deluding themselves will improve their lives if they find a way to succeed.

IMO, only pure snark or pseudoscience/broscience are unhelpful to all

A million years ago, there was a "dear mean people of MFP" thread (I think it was "cleansed"; not certain). In it, the OP thanked MFP mean people for not letting him/her (I forget which) delude him/herself, and for, instead, being honest and tough and unrelenting.

Different approaches help different people. If you wanna do tough love, do tough love . . . or just tough. Sure, you'll get some pushback from warm/fuzzy strategy old hands: That's just part of the strategy. Under the covers, we work together, good cop/bad cop, one big ol' compassionate conspiracy. :drinker:

Personally, I don't disagree with a word of your OP. I might not choose those specific words on every thread myself, but they're good words. JMO.

NovusDies

Tough love is an excellent strategy for some people. That is not where you start it is where you might end up. Even when tough love is the right call it can't come from a lack of patience or a lack of empathy. We don't want to run people off any faster than they already seem to leave.

I don't disagree with everything but for me it came across as "my way or the highway" and/or "walk it off". I am perfectly willing to be wrong if I misinterpreted it.