Eat to Live/Dr. Joel Fuhrman/Nutritarian eating--anyone doing this?
Replies
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YvetteK2015 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »If a diet has some fancy name, costs money to join and promises great result over a short period of time I would avoid it. These types of diets have a success rate of pretty close to 0% and result in nothing more than yo-yo dieting. Not only do those calories come back to you they often invite others to gatecrash the party.
These diets are so restrictive and teach nothing about sustainable ways of maintaining weight and required nutrition for long-term health.
Actually his diet is just a vegan diet really. You don't need to join anything. I'm not vegan, but I've bought many of his books and I've used many of his recipes, and they are out of this world amazing. So if people like being vegan or vegetarian, they can pretty much follow along with him.
Eat to Live is *not* vegan. The website even has a section for non-vegan recipes to show how animal products are incorporated into the plan: https://www.drfuhrman.com/recipes/categories/2/main-dishes-non-vegan
It's a largely plant-based diet that isn't based on vegan ethics. It heavily restricts or eliminates foods for reasons unrelated to veganism. And the recommended recipes include animal products.
Yes, I should have been more specific. It's mainly plant based, and from there you could be vegetarian or vegan using his plan. But although he himself does not eat animal products, his plan does use some animal products. He is not against that. I have read his books, so I am aware of that.
It's not a question of specificity, it's a question of accuracy. There are lots of plans that one can adapt to be compatible with veganism. It doesn't follow that the plans themselves are vegan. I don't think Fuhrman identifies as a vegan (I've been unable to find an interview or piece of writing where he does so, anyway).
There's no reason to describe this plan as something it is not.
He and his wife are vegan. I've seen them a few times talking about their lifestyle. Also, before he called his plan "Nutrarian", he talked mainly of plant-based vegetarian lifestyles. I haven't really follow him since he started talking about how plant based diets cure cancer, so I don't know how much it has changed since then. I do know he tells you how to incorporate animal products into your diet, but back then he mainly didn't. So I generally associate him with vegans/vegetarians...and plus since he is one.
Do you happen to remember where you saw him refer to himself as vegan? I've been unable to find any documentation of him referring to himself this way. For a vegan to encourage others to eat meat would be very unusual. I am not sure how he would reconcile that with an opposition to unnecessary animal exploitation.
Regardless of how he identifies, I would not describe "Eat to Live" as a vegan plan. It clearly contains recipes for meat, eggs, and dairy on the website. It's a plan that vegans can choose to use, but there are many plans like that.
I read "Eat to Live" about ten years ago and briefly followed the plan. Even at that point, he discouraged the use of animal products for health reasons (something he has apparently eased up on), but didn't say that one couldn't ever have them. I don't think there has ever been a point where animal foods have been absolutely off limits for people following his plan. There was a time when he would have considered them to be very occasional indulgences and now today, regular parts of his plan. Neither approach is compatible with vegan ethics.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »If a diet has some fancy name, costs money to join and promises great result over a short period of time I would avoid it. These types of diets have a success rate of pretty close to 0% and result in nothing more than yo-yo dieting. Not only do those calories come back to you they often invite others to gatecrash the party.
These diets are so restrictive and teach nothing about sustainable ways of maintaining weight and required nutrition for long-term health.
Actually his diet is just a vegan diet really. You don't need to join anything. I'm not vegan, but I've bought many of his books and I've used many of his recipes, and they are out of this world amazing. So if people like being vegan or vegetarian, they can pretty much follow along with him.
Eat to Live is *not* vegan. The website even has a section for non-vegan recipes to show how animal products are incorporated into the plan: https://www.drfuhrman.com/recipes/categories/2/main-dishes-non-vegan
It's a largely plant-based diet that isn't based on vegan ethics. It heavily restricts or eliminates foods for reasons unrelated to veganism. And the recommended recipes include animal products.
Yes, I should have been more specific. It's mainly plant based, and from there you could be vegetarian or vegan using his plan. But although he himself does not eat animal products, his plan does use some animal products. He is not against that. I have read his books, so I am aware of that.
It's not a question of specificity, it's a question of accuracy. There are lots of plans that one can adapt to be compatible with veganism. It doesn't follow that the plans themselves are vegan. I don't think Fuhrman identifies as a vegan (I've been unable to find an interview or piece of writing where he does so, anyway).
There's no reason to describe this plan as something it is not.
He and his wife are vegan. I've seen them a few times talking about their lifestyle. Also, before he called his plan "Nutrarian", he talked mainly of plant-based vegetarian lifestyles. I haven't really follow him since he started talking about how plant based diets cure cancer, so I don't know how much it has changed since then. I do know he tells you how to incorporate animal products into your diet, but back then he mainly didn't. So I generally associate him with vegans/vegetarians...and plus since he is one.
Do you happen to remember where you saw him refer to himself as vegan? I've been unable to find any documentation of him referring to himself this way. For a vegan to encourage others to eat meat would be very unusual. I am not sure how he would reconcile that with an opposition to unnecessary animal exploitation.
Regardless of how he identifies, I would not describe "Eat to Live" as a vegan plan. It clearly contains recipes for meat, eggs, and dairy on the website. It's a plan that vegans can choose to use, but there are many plans like that.
I read "Eat to Live" about ten years ago and briefly followed the plan. Even at that point, he discouraged the use of animal products for health reasons (something he has apparently eased up on), but didn't say that one couldn't ever have them. I don't think there has ever been a point where animal foods have been absolutely off limits for people following his plan. There was a time when he would have considered them to be very occasional indulgences and now today, regular parts of his plan. Neither approach is compatible with vegan ethics.
No I don't happen to remember the particular interview. I will actually look for it though. Maybe I'll find it. Someone was interviewing him at his home, and his wife was cooking the meal, and he was asked about their particular WOE which they talked in depth about.
Also, I do remember a time when he didn't even "recommend" omega 3s from fish oil supplements because they came from animal products. He talked about other ways to get omega 3s, but as time went on I believe in his supplement line he made fish oil supplements? I think that's right.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »If a diet has some fancy name, costs money to join and promises great result over a short period of time I would avoid it. These types of diets have a success rate of pretty close to 0% and result in nothing more than yo-yo dieting. Not only do those calories come back to you they often invite others to gatecrash the party.
These diets are so restrictive and teach nothing about sustainable ways of maintaining weight and required nutrition for long-term health.
Actually his diet is just a vegan diet really. You don't need to join anything. I'm not vegan, but I've bought many of his books and I've used many of his recipes, and they are out of this world amazing. So if people like being vegan or vegetarian, they can pretty much follow along with him.
Eat to Live is *not* vegan. The website even has a section for non-vegan recipes to show how animal products are incorporated into the plan: https://www.drfuhrman.com/recipes/categories/2/main-dishes-non-vegan
It's a largely plant-based diet that isn't based on vegan ethics. It heavily restricts or eliminates foods for reasons unrelated to veganism. And the recommended recipes include animal products.
Nicely put. I didn't want to argue that point, but YES.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »If a diet has some fancy name, costs money to join and promises great result over a short period of time I would avoid it. These types of diets have a success rate of pretty close to 0% and result in nothing more than yo-yo dieting. Not only do those calories come back to you they often invite others to gatecrash the party.
These diets are so restrictive and teach nothing about sustainable ways of maintaining weight and required nutrition for long-term health.
Actually his diet is just a vegan diet really. You don't need to join anything. I'm not vegan, but I've bought many of his books and I've used many of his recipes, and they are out of this world amazing. So if people like being vegan or vegetarian, they can pretty much follow along with him.
Eat to Live is *not* vegan. The website even has a section for non-vegan recipes to show how animal products are incorporated into the plan: https://www.drfuhrman.com/recipes/categories/2/main-dishes-non-vegan
It's a largely plant-based diet that isn't based on vegan ethics. It heavily restricts or eliminates foods for reasons unrelated to veganism. And the recommended recipes include animal products.
Actually, I just found this on this website under his "non-vegan" main recipes.
"These recipes illustrate how animal products may be included in a Nutritarian diet in small amounts as condiments or flavorings. Ideally, keep serving sizes to less than 2 ounces and limit to three or fewer servings per week. Because animal products do not contain anti-cancer antioxidants and phytochemicals and have been linked in scientific studies to increased risk of several types of cancer, their use should be restricted to less than 10 percent, or even better, less than 5 percent of total daily caloric intake. The intention is to accommodate food preferences as well as differing needs and genetic risks."
So as I did remember correctly, his Eat to Live did start as a vegan diet. I always remembered how he talked about animal products being inferior to plants and he never recommended them. So just having a look at his website, and looking at I can't recall how many youtube videos of the man...he still does not advocate eating animal products. But he now shows people who cannot be strict how they can incorporate small amounts of animal products into this WOE to account to certain preferences and also children who will not eat totally vegan.
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YvetteK2015 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »If a diet has some fancy name, costs money to join and promises great result over a short period of time I would avoid it. These types of diets have a success rate of pretty close to 0% and result in nothing more than yo-yo dieting. Not only do those calories come back to you they often invite others to gatecrash the party.
These diets are so restrictive and teach nothing about sustainable ways of maintaining weight and required nutrition for long-term health.
Actually his diet is just a vegan diet really. You don't need to join anything. I'm not vegan, but I've bought many of his books and I've used many of his recipes, and they are out of this world amazing. So if people like being vegan or vegetarian, they can pretty much follow along with him.
Eat to Live is *not* vegan. The website even has a section for non-vegan recipes to show how animal products are incorporated into the plan: https://www.drfuhrman.com/recipes/categories/2/main-dishes-non-vegan
It's a largely plant-based diet that isn't based on vegan ethics. It heavily restricts or eliminates foods for reasons unrelated to veganism. And the recommended recipes include animal products.
Actually, I just found this on this website under his "non-vegan" main recipes.
"These recipes illustrate how animal products may be included in a Nutritarian diet in small amounts as condiments or flavorings. Ideally, keep serving sizes to less than 2 ounces and limit to three or fewer servings per week. Because animal products do not contain anti-cancer antioxidants and phytochemicals and have been linked in scientific studies to increased risk of several types of cancer, their use should be restricted to less than 10 percent, or even better, less than 5 percent of total daily caloric intake. The intention is to accommodate food preferences as well as differing needs and genetic risks."
So as I did remember correctly, his Eat to Live did start as a vegan diet. I always remembered how he talked about animal products being inferior to plants and he never recommended them. So just having a look at his website, and looking at I can't recall how many youtube videos of the man...he still does not advocate eating animal products. But he now shows people who cannot be strict how they can incorporate small amounts of animal products into this WOE to account to certain preferences and also children who will not eat totally vegan.
I'm not sure how you define veganism, but this isn't it. There is no "less than 10%" exception for unnecessary animal exploitation. He provides ways to people to be "nutritarian" and exploit animals. That falls under the category of plant-based diets, not veganism.
Veganism isn't the belief that plants are superior to animal foods nutritionally (although individual vegans may hold that belief). It's an opposition to animal exploitation. I've never see Fuhrman express opposition to that or make any statements about ethics at all. He may have made statements like that that I haven't yet been exposed to -- if someone links to them, I'll gladly reconsider my position. But the fact that his opposition to animal products seems to be limited to the belief that they're unhealthy eaten as more than 10% of the diet leads me to question whether or not he is vegan.
Whether he is vegan or not, his plan clearly isn't. Including fish oil supplements isn't vegan. Endorsing the consumption of animal products isn't vegan.
Let's put the myth of "Eat to Live" being a vegan plan to rest. It's a 90-100% plant-based diet.5 -
I followed the "Eat to Live" plan for a while a few years ago, mainly because it was a plan I wouldn't have to adapt too much as a vegetarian. I think there is some good information there, but it was not something I wanted to maintain. I now view it as a stepping stone in understanding how to create nutrient dense meals, and while I did incorporate some oils and salt back into my cooking it's greatly reduced since learning how to water sauté and became familiar with more spices. Also, the meals tended to be super high volume so that was nice, I have kept several of those recipes in my rotation. As a whole it was too restrictive for me, I wanted more protein and fats, and it interfered with a lot of social events in my life.1
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I am trying to follow his plan. I try to eat whole plant based foods. Trying to eliminate oil and salt as well. How is it going for you?0
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Eating Nutritarian is unbelievably healthy and I have no doubt that most of his health claims are true.
It's also unbelievably hard to stay true to it, UNLESS you have a gun to your head about some health issue. If you are facing early death or heavy surgery or some other illness that will lower your quality of life, it makes the sacrifice of Nutritarianism much more palatable.
I would say the truest path he would advocate would be vegan. But adding a bit of meat and fish is fine, if that's what it takes for you to follow it. After all, he's primarily a doctor, and his book is about radical health transformation. Food is simply the medicine he uses to achieve his outcomes.
Most people without health issues will do Nutritarianism for a weeks to months, and then will fall back into a more standard, easier diet, but still try to retain elements they learned. If they do this, they come away eating far, far more healthy than 95% of the US population.4 -
Had he changed his views over the years? The research in the book seems quite dated. He is highly convinced that "too much protein" causes all sorts of diseases. I am not sure that current research backs that up.3
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I think it is an excellent book and it is a good plan for some but I do not do well with legumes and veganism ( I know its not all vegan) however I have adopted some of the principles about food choices.
For me I have found reading and experimentation led me to a personal, customised way of life and eating that does not necessarily classify as one type of " diet".
I may have a vegan dish or day a keto dish or day, intermitten fast days or low fat vegetable based. Lately its been a " keto" morning, Italian- meditteranian influenced lunch and curry for dinner with an Asian inspired 4th meal or snack. 😊
Its a good plan to try if itworks for you 🤗1 -
karenvandam wrote: »My husband and I tried the nutritarian lifestyle for a while (about 1 year). While most of the advice is spot-on and well researched, I feel like I did not get enough protein. My husband lost quite a bit of weight, but much of it was muscle. I ended up with fatigue that lasted 6-9 months. During that time, my doctors couldn't find anything wrong. I decided to back off on the nutritarian diet in hopes that a less restrictive diet would help me feel better. Eventually, my issues resolved, but I gained 20 lbs.
When I started on MyFitnessPal a year later, I was appalled at how low in protein my diet was even after I started eating meat again! I really had to work to get the recommended protein levels. In hindsight, I wonder if my fatigue was from not eating enough protein? Of course, I have no way of knowing what really caused my fatigue.
I still feel like nutritarian is a good lifestyle and we still use many of the recommendations (for example eating beans and greens and loading up on high-nutrient foods). I just eat more meat and dairy than he suggests.
If I had to do it again, I would use the nutritarian recommendations along with MyFitnessPal to make sure to get enough protein and other nutrients.
Good luck on your journey!
I know this is an old post - in case anyone is following along still-my husband and I have tried this in the past and I have followed on and off for several years. I had this same experience-I lost weight but I was terribly weak. I am alarmed now at the limited protein. Also, he really made me fearful of protein - especially animal protein. I do my best physically and mentally when I'm not restricting any food groups and ALSO when I have a mindset that is not restrictive of food groups.4
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