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Plant Paradox Diet
Replies
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stevencloser wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Lawdy, lawdy. Big Pharma gonna kill us all.
If leaky gut doesn't get us first.
Lol Big Pharma saved my life.
I find "leaky gut" funny as I do have numerous GI diseases and actually had a leaky gut (fistulas) ans I lnow people who have perforated (this is the ultimate leaky gut). If you had stomach contents and/or intestinal contents in your abdomen or blood you would know it and you'd become septic pretty quickly
Mine, too. On several occasions. And continues to do so daily.
Me too I'm on 7 prescription drugs and 4 OTC.
If only you'd be doing smoothie cleanses, you wouldn't need any of that! /s
Ironically I am living on boost and smoothies atm because I don't tolerate solid food that well. They definitely have not cured me as my 2 main GO diseases don't have a cure yet
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Thank you!MikePfirrman wrote: »However, when it comes to "leaky gut", that does exist. All that means is the membrane of the stomach can "leak" or become permeable. I think, too often, people confuse Leaky Gut "therapies", most of which aren't science backed, with "leaky gut". They are two distinctly different things. The gut can in fact become permeable and lead to digestive problems (like Celiac). I think what you mean is that some of the Holistic treatments don't have merit and that might certainly be true.
Sorry if this seems picky but Leaky Gut is a very real condition that is overwhelmingly proven with science. It's how you "treat" it that becomes really unscientific and sketchy.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-leaky-gut-real#section2
Why out of all the vague "digestive problems" to choose to try and back up your woo did you choose ceoliac? It's not even a digestive problem, it's an autoimmune condition with symptoms that can present as digestive problems and can't be caused or cured by dietary changes.
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stevencloser wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Lawdy, lawdy. Big Pharma gonna kill us all.
If leaky gut doesn't get us first.
Lol Big Pharma saved my life.
I find "leaky gut" funny as I do have numerous GI diseases and actually had a leaky gut (fistulas) ans I lnow people who have perforated (this is the ultimate leaky gut). If you had stomach contents and/or intestinal contents in your abdomen or blood you would know it and you'd become septic pretty quickly
Mine, too. On several occasions. And continues to do so daily.
Me too I'm on 7 prescription drugs and 4 OTC.
If only you'd be doing smoothie cleanses, you wouldn't need any of that! /s
If only someone had already posted a good recipe for a smoothie cleansestanmann571 wrote: »Lambertgrp wrote: »Good news! It works especially for those who realize the battle is in the Gut. Yes, I had a leaking gut and Dr. Steven Gundry probiotic green Smoothie took care of that. Now I enjoy a Green Smoothie for breakfast each morning and a salid for lunch. I started out at 315 lbs in January. This morning I weighted 286 lbs. That's 29 lbs in 6 months. Nice and slow and hopefully a sustainable rate of weight lost.
I've lost 39lbs since January and not one green smoothie.
I'll bet if you ate 2 lbs of kale, 3 strips of bacon, 10g of creatine, and some Alli you'd have one big green smoothie4 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »However, when it comes to "leaky gut", that does exist. All that means is the membrane of the stomach can "leak" or become permeable. I think, too often, people confuse Leaky Gut "therapies", most of which aren't science backed, with "leaky gut". They are two distinctly different things. The gut can in fact become permeable and lead to digestive problems (like Celiac). I think what you mean is that some of the Holistic treatments don't have merit and that might certainly be true.
Sorry if this seems picky but Leaky Gut is a very real condition that is overwhelmingly proven with science. It's how you "treat" it that becomes really unscientific and sketchy.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-leaky-gut-real#section2
Why out of all the vague "digestive problems" to choose to try and back up your woo did you choose ceoliac? It's not even a digestive problem, it's an autoimmune condition with symptoms that can present as digestive problems and can't be caused or cured by dietary changes.
Because woo peddlers like to reverse the direction of causality.
Intestinal permeability can be caused by certain medical conditions such as celiac. But it isn't caused, nor can it be cured by, dietary changes3 -
Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
That was all I said originally, is essentially " 'leaky gut' might exist in certain very specific circumstances" which is what you just restated.
It astounds me that on this site, people lose a few pounds and think they know everything know so little and can't follow logic.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
Indeed.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.
It's not even debated in science circles that the gut is permeable. Only in this forum. Wow.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.
It's not even debated in science circles that the gut is permeable. Only in this forum. Wow.
How does this relate at all to OP buying Gundry's claims for a "leaky gut syndrome" that can apparently be treated by eating pureed greens?9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.
It's not even debated in science circles that the gut is permeable. Only in this forum. Wow.
How does this relate at all to OP buying Gundry's claims for a "leaky gut syndrome" that can apparently be treated by eating pureed greens?
It doesn't, it relates to the snarky comment "Leaky Gut's not a thing..." in response to the OP.
Leaky Gut is very much a "thing". "Leaky Gut Syndrome" is a title that has come to encompass all the very sketchy (which I mentioned in my original post) treatments by Holistic docs that claim to fix a "Leaky Gut". They should not be used interchangeably.
The OP came onto the site (forum) and wanted to announce (to him) very good news and all he got was snarky attacks, which, personally, I find offensive.
Especially ones that are factually inaccurate. Here's a decent debate on the same topic that's more civil than anyone on here. I guess you become pretentious snarky arses when you lose weight.
https://www.metabunk.org/is-leaky-gut-athing.t9647/
If you even bothered to read my original post before the "woo" police came in, I said I'm not a fan of Gundrys. I was just trying to be more civil in guiding him...
I've lost my weight years ago and (usually) enjoy forums as a way to give back to others that want to get healthier. The community on here is honestly horrid to new people. Instead of gently guiding them, they often post very mean, nasty comments that I suppose in their minds make them mentally superior. It's sad that those coming here for support get bombarded by that.12 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
That was all I said originally, is essentially " 'leaky gut' might exist in certain very specific circumstances" which is what you just restated.
It astounds me that on this site, people lose a few pounds and think they know everything know so little and can't follow logic.
I have Crohn's and gastroparesis so don't tell me I am ignorant about GI issues. I also have an ileostomy and no colon and rectum so I'm acutely aware of how things work. I know way more about the GI tract than most people. My advice is to go to a gastroenterologist and listen to what they say rather than a random stranger on MFP10 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.
It's not even debated in science circles that the gut is permeable. Only in this forum. Wow.
How does this relate at all to OP buying Gundry's claims for a "leaky gut syndrome" that can apparently be treated by eating pureed greens?
It doesn't, it relates to the snarky comment "Leaky Gut's not a thing..." in response to the OP.
Leaky Gut is very much a "thing". "Leaky Gut Syndrome" is a title that has come to encompass all the very sketchy (which I mentioned in my original post) treatments by Holistic docs that claim to fix a "Leaky Gut". They should not be used interchangeably.
The OP came onto the site (forum) and wanted to announce (to him) very good news and all he got was snarky attacks, which, personally, I find offensive.
Especially ones that are factually inaccurate. Here's a decent debate on the same topic that's more civil than anyone on here. I guess you become pretentious snarky arses when you lose weight.
https://www.metabunk.org/is-leaky-gut-athing.t9647/
If you even bothered to read my original post before the "woo" police came in, I said I'm not a fan of Gundrys. I was just trying to be more civil in guiding him...
So basically, you're just nit-picking that someone didn't include the word "syndrome" in their comment that it wasn't a thing even though the context of OP's post was clearly "leaky gut syndrome"? Okay.
I don't think it's good news that OP thinks he has a disease that there is no real evidence for. I don't think it's good news that he may be further sucked into the pseudoscience of Gundry's approach, especially if it winds up costing him money or keeping him from addressing whatever real health issues he may be facing with valid treatments.
I'm sorry the tone of the discussion offends you, but honestly, if you're going to call me and others "pretentious snarky arses" I've got to question your commitment to tone. Or are your standards and sense of offense only applied when addressing people who believe in Leaky Gut Syndrome and not to those who question it?16 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.
It's not even debated in science circles that the gut is permeable. Only in this forum. Wow.
How does this relate at all to OP buying Gundry's claims for a "leaky gut syndrome" that can apparently be treated by eating pureed greens?
It doesn't, it relates to the snarky comment "Leaky Gut's not a thing..." in response to the OP.
Leaky Gut is very much a "thing". "Leaky Gut Syndrome" is a title that has come to encompass all the very sketchy (which I mentioned in my original post) treatments by Holistic docs that claim to fix a "Leaky Gut". They should not be used interchangeably.
The OP came onto the site (forum) and wanted to announce (to him) very good news and all he got was snarky attacks, which, personally, I find offensive.
Especially ones that are factually inaccurate. Here's a decent debate on the same topic that's more civil than anyone on here. I guess you become pretentious snarky arses when you lose weight.
https://www.metabunk.org/is-leaky-gut-athing.t9647/
If you even bothered to read my original post before the "woo" police came in, I said I'm not a fan of Gundrys. I was just trying to be more civil in guiding him...
So basically, you're just nit-picking that someone didn't include the word "syndrome" in their comment that it wasn't a thing even though the context of OP's post was clearly "leaky gut syndrome"? Okay.
I don't think it's good news that OP thinks he has a disease that there is no real evidence for. I don't think it's good news that he may be further sucked into the pseudoscience of Gundry's approach, especially if it winds up costing him money or keeping him from addressing whatever real health issues he may be facing with valid treatments.
I'm sorry the tone of the discussion offends you, but honestly, if you're going to call me and others "pretentious snarky arses" I've got to question your commitment to tone. Or are your standards and sense of offense only applied when addressing people who believe in Leaky Gut Syndrome and not to those who question it?
If someone is having digestive symptoms I recommend going to a GI and not follow Dr Gundry. If you actually have a serious GI condition not seeking help and diagnostic testing puts you at high risk of becomin wzy worse or possibly dying.
7 -
Ahh, the Pharma shill Gambit. A form of poisoning the well logical fallacy. Used when you have to dismiss someone's argument because you nothing to back your nonsense. Do you have proof they are paid directly by pharma companies to produce positive studies. But humor me, I challenge you to link to any SBM post that is wrong. And explain how it is wrong. I guarantee that you refuse.MikePfirrman wrote: »Sciencebased Medicine is a bunch of guys who work for universities that get (heavily) funded by pharmaceutical companies to test new drugs. They are pharma shills, so hardly unbiased.
This link doesn't prove leaky gut is a real condition. By the way, the MD who authored this opinion piece is a functional medicine doctor, basically a quack.https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/leaky-gut-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-you-2017092212451
Again, acknowledging that Leaky Gut is a real condition (and that it contributes to Celiac Disease, by the way).Contact Harvard Medical School if you'd like to argue. Here's the two links to studies from the original post that I put on there from Healthline (a lot more reliable and honest than Sciencebasedmedicine.com).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16099460
https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1741-7015-9-23
Neither one of these links prove leaky gut is real.
Again, link to any SBM post where they are dishonest.
Intestinal permeability is real, no one is denying that. The difference is that intestinal permeability is the result of other conditions and doesn't cause disease. The quacks want you to believe that leaky gut causes all sorts of maladies and can be cured with any myriad of special diets, supplements and magical potions.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.
It's not even debated in science circles that the gut is permeable. Only in this forum. Wow.
How does this relate at all to OP buying Gundry's claims for a "leaky gut syndrome" that can apparently be treated by eating pureed greens?
It doesn't, it relates to the snarky comment "Leaky Gut's not a thing..." in response to the OP.
Leaky Gut is very much a "thing". "Leaky Gut Syndrome" is a title that has come to encompass all the very sketchy (which I mentioned in my original post) treatments by Holistic docs that claim to fix a "Leaky Gut". They should not be used interchangeably.
The OP came onto the site (forum) and wanted to announce (to him) very good news and all he got was snarky attacks, which, personally, I find offensive.
Especially ones that are factually inaccurate. Here's a decent debate on the same topic that's more civil than anyone on here. I guess you become pretentious snarky arses when you lose weight.
https://www.metabunk.org/is-leaky-gut-athing.t9647/
If you even bothered to read my original post before the "woo" police came in, I said I'm not a fan of Gundrys. I was just trying to be more civil in guiding him...
So basically, you're just nit-picking that someone didn't include the word "syndrome" in their comment that it wasn't a thing even though the context of OP's post was clearly "leaky gut syndrome"? Okay.
I don't think it's good news that OP thinks he has a disease that there is no real evidence for. I don't think it's good news that he may be further sucked into the pseudoscience of Gundry's approach, especially if it winds up costing him money or keeping him from addressing whatever real health issues he may be facing with valid treatments.
I'm sorry the tone of the discussion offends you, but honestly, if you're going to call me and others "pretentious snarky arses" I've got to question your commitment to tone. Or are your standards and sense of offense only applied when addressing people who believe in Leaky Gut Syndrome and not to those who question it?
WORD.8 -
singingflutelady wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »Lawdy, lawdy. Big Pharma gonna kill us all.
If leaky gut doesn't get us first.
Lol Big Pharma saved my life.
I find "leaky gut" funny as I do have numerous GI diseases and actually had a leaky gut (fistulas) ans I lnow people who have perforated (this is the ultimate leaky gut). If you had stomach contents and/or intestinal contents in your abdomen or blood you would know it and you'd become septic pretty quickly epecially if you aren't operated on right away. Even after surgery sepsis is a big risk.
Yes I agree.
Leaking gut through fistula or burst appendix or suchlike is a real thing. Bowel contents leak into abdominal space causing peritonitis.
Patient in big trouble - needs way more than a green smoothie to fix it ( understatement of the year )
Btw I don't say this because I have lost a few kg and think I know everything - I say it because 30 years of health professional experience
9 -
Debate tip: the second you say "pharma" I stop taking you seriously.9
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MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »MikePfirrman wrote: »Show me something that disproves that a gut can be permeable. That's what a "Leaky Gut" means. In my original post, I differentiated between "leaky gut", which is a widely accepted medical condition and "Leaky Gut Syndrome", which is synomomous with Holistic approaches that are sketchy in scientific proof.
My original point is that guts can be permeable and leaky. It's hard to debate individuals that don't even understand what they are arguing.
How would one disprove that a gut *could* be permeable?
That's like saying "Show me that lead can't be turned into gold" or "Show me that horses aren't just unicorns with invisible horns."
The onus of proof is on the person making the claims, so if someone is saying that "leaky gut syndrome" is real and that specific actions will treat it, they need to demonstrate that.
You don't just get to make up conditions and require that others prove they aren't real.
It's not even debated in science circles that the gut is permeable. Only in this forum. Wow.
Oh, there's lots of things that I only see on this forum. And it used to be snarkier. Never-the-less, I'm glad I stuck around.3 -
This discussion has been closed.
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