Strength workouts that keep heartrate up?

giantrobot_powerlifting · June 2018

Davidsdottir wrote: »

giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »

Davidsdottir wrote: »

giantrobot_powerlifting wrote: »

Davidsdottir wrote: »

AnvilHead wrote: »

clobern80 wrote: »

I do Super Sets where you go from one exercise to the next with no rest, then rest only 2 minutes before starting over. I also love doing circuit training with weights. I do 3 reps of each exercise (usually 8-10 different exercises) without stopping for 5 rounds, then take a 2 minute break. Then I do 3 rounds and another 2 minutes followed by the last 2 rounds.

e.g.

***Do 5 sets of this***
Bench Press x 3
Dumbbell Curls x 3
Tricep Pulldowns x 3
Dumbbell Press x 3
EZ Bar Curls x 3
Tricep Extensions x3
Leg Press x 3
Calf Press x 3
Leg Extension x 3

***After 5 sets, rest for 2 minutes***

***Do 3 sets of the above***

***After 3 sets, rest for 2 minutes***

***Do 2 sets of the above***

This way, I get 30 total reps but instead of doing 3x10, I am doing 10x3 and can actually do heavier weights each time. I move from one exercise to the next, to the next, etc. so I get a good sweat on. Also, once I get in better shape, I add cardio like jumprope at the end of each set, so would do jumprope for 30 seconds or 60 seconds before starting over at the beginning.

This is just a rough example, but you get the idea

Just an advisory to those reading the above: if you try a multi-station circuit routine like this in most public gyms, you're going to get some major flak from the rest of the gym users. Everybody else isn't going to patiently stand around and wait for 30-45 minutes while you tie up virtually every piece of equipment in the gym for your workout.

Disregard the above if you work out in a home gym, a crossfit/circuit-oriented gym, or you're fortunate enough to work out in a virtually empty public gym where you're not affecting everybody else's workouts.

Ugh... we have a guy at my gym who does this every friggin morning. He hogs a bench, a squat rack, and some floor space for 45 min without fail.

“Dadpants” at one of the local Anytimes would do that to me —and those gyms are short on equipment to begin with. I moved last July, and Dadpants is now my next door neighbor and he and his wife are crazy.

Wow, small world! That is too funny!!!

Lol yes. Hey are you interested in a new neighbor? I can give you Dadpants and his crazy wife. Free even!

I think I'm all set with the neighbors I've got. They're all pretty quiet and keep to themselves LOL

Oh well in that case we definitely need to trade!

heybales · June 2018

hesn92 wrote: »

Isn’t the point of resting between sets to... rest? Sorry I haven’t actually read all the replies.

That is indeed if your purpose of the lifts is to be as heavy as possible and ask the body to make changes regarding the muscles as best as possible, and not arbitrarily limited by other factors.

This request would be more about desiring a cardio focus with enough resistance training to think it's doing something useful there too, but minimal since focus is cardio.

Scubdup · July 2018

cwolfman13 wrote: »

Scubdup wrote: »

Thanks a lot for the replies. A lot of constructive criticism in there.

I *do* accept that these workouts won't be the very best strength training, and so, to a degree, my question is, to an extent - "What is the best strength training I can do whilst maintaining a certain %max heartrate?"

I'd be very grateful for any science-based info about the risk of ruining strength training with a high heart rate.

By way of update, for anyone else looking for ideas on the same theme, yesterday I largely ended up doing a series of couplets where I alternated between a compound strength training exercise, and an exercise that was more suited to upping the heart rate (eg, bent dumbell rows and ab bicycles).

To those insisting on a complete split between cardio and strength training, can you post what workouts you do to train your glycolytic system?

I think where myself and some others are getting confused is by the term "strength training" which is a specific type of training where you typically lift at a high % of your maximum weight with low reps...I think the picture is kind of confusing as well...is that you?

Anyway, you're not going to be able to lift "heavy" doing a bunch of other stuff between sets and keeping your heart rate up. Nothing particularly wrong with running circuits and such...I do a lot of similar work when I'm training for overall athleticism...lots of complexes, circuits, plyo work, and conditioning stuff, but my actual strength always suffers...like when I go back to a bar bell routine, I can never start where I left off strength wise.

With traditional strength training, you need the rest between sets to get up the next set of heavy weight. When I'm doing more conditioning type of work I'm typically using lighter weight and higher reps...depending on where you're at in your lifting, it may or may not produce increased strength. I've been lifting for 5.5 years regularly, so at this point I get no benefit of additional strength doing that kind of conditioning...I just build better endurance and overall athleticism.

When I'm doing a barbell routine that focus on compound movements and olympic movements, my heart rate does get up in the anaerobic zone, but only briefly. In regards to cardio, I keep it separate and mostly cycle. Most of my rides are conversational paced endurance rides. Once per week I do interval work on the bike where I get my heart rate up into the anaerobic zone for 20 seconds or so and then recover or I will do hill repeats.

Thanks so much for the time taken for such an excellent reply - greatly appreciated.

You've asked about my profile picture - yes, that is me, but those are bumper plates and look more impressive than they are - I think that 1RM squat was 150 kgs.

As I've said, my goal here is to squeeze in some workouts that will improve my strength but which also tick a box for my insurer by keeping my heartrate up...

The time I have for fitness is:-

5 weekday lunch break 30 min sessions with access to a decent gym
2 weekend morning sessions with access to decent running trails that feature a few outdoor woodland exercise furniture

Out of that I need to get 4 workouts of either 30 mins at 70%MHR or 60 mins at 60%MHR. Ideally, if both weekend sessions are runs, they qualify.

That leaves the weekday workouts. Making 2 of those out-and-out endurance (eg 8k rows) feels like I'm not focusing enough on strength gains, hence asking the question.

I've found a few studies which support what you and @sijomial say about "interference":-

I'm trying to determine over what period of time the two - strength training and Endurance training - shouldn't be mixed... Maybe I can build a cyclical program that alternates between the two, but I need to know what timeframe to base that program on.

Thanks again.

heybales · July 2018

Wow - that's tough arrangement.

Could almost be easier to try to convince the insurance ...... oh, maybe not.

So pick if you'd prefer the upper or lower body to be more the endurance side, like if you enjoy the rowing, or perhaps you'd enjoy the running/biking.

Then run a partial split routine - upper / lower body.
Then if upper is lifting focus, run upper 2 x weekly, lower 1 x weekly, other days cardio.

Sat & Sun the 60 min sessions @ 60%.
Tue & Thu the 30 min sessions @ 70%.

Mon & Fri the upper body lifts.
Wed the lower body lifts.

Really try to nail the 70% (and not over) on Tue & Thu so it has the least potential interference for the Wed lower lifting.

Make the lower lifting like 3 x 15 reps just to get the volume in to be helpful. Still not high enough weekly really.
Squat and deadlift, perhaps something for hammies like deadlift variants with stiff/straight legs.
Don't expect much in the way of gains fast here.

Upper would need like 10-14 reps x 3 sets to hit enough volume with 2 x weekly. But progress can be made with that. Albeit slower than more frequency.

MikePfirrman · July 2018

Since you row (I do a lot of both Kettlebells and rowing), perhaps focus more on sprints for your rowing and mix it up with Kettlebells. I'm not sure if you want to break up your routine by upper/lower or something else, but when I'm not training for rowing season (sometimes massive amounts of meters), I'll mix up the workouts with 500m sprints, then 15 overhead presses, 20/25 heavy KB swings, 25 pushups, repeat (I can usually get in 6 plus rounds in 40 minutes). I try to keep my HR around 75% of max throughout. Especially if you start with a weight rep, that shouldn't be a problem. Actually, you'll end up having to take quick breathers just to keep going. It's just a safer version of Cross Fit. Also, the rowing sprints build more leg power than the longer 8K rows.

Replace your two 8K rows during the week with something like this perhaps. If you have access to heavier KBs (someone mentioned them above). My gym only has up to 35lbs, where at home, I like to use over 50 lbs at least for the swings and I'll use two 35 lb ones at the gym for swings.

I do agree with others that have said you won't max out power with this type of workout. That's certainly not my goal. Fitness is different than power. You can achieve both but you'd have to separate your workouts to do that.

Also, the nice thing is that I'm not sitting on any weight equipment doing this because I'm pretty gross if I do this at the gym. Obviously, I'm wiping the rower each time (and I'm the only one that actually cleans it the right way, wiping the rails too) but that's the only piece of equipment aside from wiping KB handles I have to worry about.

lukeruss · July 2018

Try a good cardio yoga using dynamic resistance like DDP Yoga

SCoil123 · July 2018

A boxing or boot camp class

Scubdup · July 2018

Thanks for the replies.

@heybales - I like your thinking. I'm fairly attached to my rowing as a great all-over workout, but I could maybe lay off every other week, and switch to cycling (tough because my heart rate doesn't go nearly as high for similar perceived effort) - and focus on upper body lifting those weeks...

The studies seem to show, though, that interference can occur even between leg-endurance training and upper-body-strength training!

@MikePfirrman - I generally try not to include the rower in any sort of Crossfit "Hopper" or Metcon mixed workout. Even though the rowers at the gym don't get used much, I feel like I'd be hogging equipment - possibly just because of the specific layout of our gym. There's a disused corner where I can take a few bits for those sorts of workouts.

I used to use kettlebells a lot (in my Crossfit days) but have pretty much forgotten about them - I think you've made me have another look - I also have a problem with my posture - possibly pelvic anterior tilt - and if I recall correctly, kettlebell swings can help there too.

Thanks all.

heybales · July 2018

Another idea came to mind think about this last night, along the lines of your comment.

Upper body focus for cardio with rowing say during winter months when getting outside isn't great, make progress in lifting for legs.

During spring & fall when nice out, cardio for legs focus, upper body lifting focus to make progress.

Summer perhaps too hot for outside - back to rowing as cardio, leg lifting focus.

And yes, the interference can still come, but it seems to mainly be about poor recovery and just being worn out enough to cause next workout to be not the best it could be.

But steady-state cardio at those %MHR, for only 30 min - shouldn't be that bad.

Now rowing as complete body, yeah, that may impact lower body lifting, but again, hopefully not that bad if kept at 70%.

Looks like several nice options to meet the schedule and the requirements.

Strongfitmama100412 · July 2018

I dont rest in between sets. I do a split routine. One day biceps, triceps and shoulders,one day leg day, and one day chest and back day. I lift heavy these days. Your heart rate will increase

2 days a week I do total body combined with tabata training. I do this type of workout 2 days a week (one of those days im teaching it). Weights arent as heavy, and I train upper and lower body at the same time (your heartrate will come up) and I do tabata intervals. This is where your heart rate really increases.

On another day I do walking/sprints up hills. My heart rate increases when I either walk up hill pushing a double carriage or sprint up them. Double dose with i sprint pushing 80lbs with the stroller.

So how to increase heartrate lifting weights?

Increase weight (go heavier)

Increase intensity. (Hiit training) incorporate it with your lifting. Lift 20 min, 20 cardio hiit

Incorporate upper and lower body at the same time (squat with overhead press, lunges with bicep curls)

Hope this helps.

Scubdup · July 2018

By way of an update, my most successful approach to those days where I want a strength gain whilst maintaining a high (70%Max) heart rate is based around couplets - ie, where the strength exercise I want to do doesn't elevate heartrate sufficiently, I couple it with something that does, and alternate - eg today one couplet was a variant of a Janda sit up (that doesn't push up my heart rate) and one-leg Romanian deadlifts (which do).

I then cycled that couplet with some HIIT rowing (6 intervals of 30s max effort, 30s rest).

Strength workouts that keep heartrate up?

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