Eating Back Calories Given from FitBit
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stanmann571 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »To me eating exercise calories is like walking to McDonald's to buy a BigMac meal.
Then you don't understand how the tool "MFP" works.
I think it's kind of distorted to compare properly fueling your body to that of walking to McDonalds for a BigMac. If I didn't eat back my calories, I'd come up with a net of 0-300 cals everyday. I don't see that as the most healthy.WinoGelato wrote: »No - this is basically all wrong. The number that MFP provides you is an estimate of your NEAT - which is your BMR (the cals you burn just being alive) plus an estimate of your calories from daily activity based on what activity level you chose. When you exercise and burn more calories than that you are meant to be eating those calories back to fuel your Total activity. FitBit provides a calorie adjustment which is representative of the difference between what MFP thought you’d burn and the total amount FitBit says you burn.
Ignoring those completely means you are significantly under fueling your body, and thinking it’s good to try to be just at your BMR when you are clearly an active person? That’s just a recipe for failure.
Eating 1800 ish calories and exercising off 1100 is the same as if you only ate 700 cals and did no exercise. Does that sound healthy?
Yeah I can take good advice! I like food.
Well gosh I sure am glad you finally got some good advice.
It is always welcome. I eat healthy and balanced I guess, so never felt the need to eat into my exercise cals. If I feel like it eat a banana or chai/whey shake pre and post runs. Never had health issues, I go for check ups, check my vitals etc. Posting here I realized I am in better shape I actually thought I was
How many times a week do you run 10+ Kilometers?
I run every day at least 10k. Monday, Tuesday more pace at under 6', fat-burn zones Wed to Fri at over 7'/km, Parkrun Saturdays a 22 minute 5k. Maybe skip two days through any month.1 -
@WinoGelato what's there to say?
The guy KNOWS he is supposed to do a 20% cut from actual TDEE.
He knows that his "MFP eating goal" PLUS "MFP selected deficit" PLUS "Fitbit adjustment" equals his Fitbit estimated TDEE for the day.
Which means that with a selected deficit in the 500 to 1000 range that his TDEE is probably in the 3300 to 3800 (2900+chosen deficit)
And be eats 1800.
So he's just about doing a 50% deficit instead of 20% (or 25% while obese).
Eventually he will crash. Neither the first one, nor the last....3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »To me eating exercise calories is like walking to McDonald's to buy a BigMac meal.
Then you don't understand how the tool "MFP" works.
I think it's kind of distorted to compare properly fueling your body to that of walking to McDonalds for a BigMac. If I didn't eat back my calories, I'd come up with a net of 0-300 cals everyday. I don't see that as the most healthy.WinoGelato wrote: »No - this is basically all wrong. The number that MFP provides you is an estimate of your NEAT - which is your BMR (the cals you burn just being alive) plus an estimate of your calories from daily activity based on what activity level you chose. When you exercise and burn more calories than that you are meant to be eating those calories back to fuel your Total activity. FitBit provides a calorie adjustment which is representative of the difference between what MFP thought you’d burn and the total amount FitBit says you burn.
Ignoring those completely means you are significantly under fueling your body, and thinking it’s good to try to be just at your BMR when you are clearly an active person? That’s just a recipe for failure.
Eating 1800 ish calories and exercising off 1100 is the same as if you only ate 700 cals and did no exercise. Does that sound healthy?
Yeah I can take good advice! I like food.
Well gosh I sure am glad you finally got some good advice.
It is always welcome. I eat healthy and balanced I guess, so never felt the need to eat into my exercise cals. If I feel like it eat a banana or chai/whey shake pre and post runs. Never had health issues, I go for check ups, check my vitals etc. Posting here I realized I am in better shape I actually thought I was
How many times a week do you run 10+ Kilometers?
I run every day at least 10k. Monday, Tuesday more pace at under 6', fat-burn zones Wed to Fri at over 7'/km, Parkrun Saturdays a 22 minute 5k. Maybe skip two days through any month.
22 minute 5K every week.
Seriously that's pretty awesome. That's fast enough to podium in some areas. Not a first place, there's always somebody.
You really need to be feeding those runs. Carefully, no doubt, And congrats on losing 30Kg.3 -
@WinoGelato what's there to say?
The guy KNOWS he is supposed to do a 20% cut from actual TDEE.
He knows that his "MFP eating goal" PLUS "MFP selected deficit" PLUS "Fitbit adjustment" equals his Fitbit estimated TDEE for the day.
Which means that with a selected deficit in the 500 to 1000 range that his TDEE is probably in the 3300 to 3800 (2900+chosen deficit)
And be eats 1800.
So he's just about doing a 50% deficit instead of 20% (or 25% while obese).
Eventually he will crash. Neither the first one, nor the last....
Hey advise taken. Been doing this for a few years and I eat more some days, others less. Did a new calculation here
punching in Athlete.
https://tdeecalculator.net/result.php?s=metric&g=male&age=47&kg=89&cm=180&act=1.55&bf=28&f=1>
I am hardly skinny with a 28% bodyfat, weighing 89kg and 180cm tall.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »To me eating exercise calories is like walking to McDonald's to buy a BigMac meal.
Then you don't understand how the tool "MFP" works.
I think it's kind of distorted to compare properly fueling your body to that of walking to McDonalds for a BigMac. If I didn't eat back my calories, I'd come up with a net of 0-300 cals everyday. I don't see that as the most healthy.WinoGelato wrote: »No - this is basically all wrong. The number that MFP provides you is an estimate of your NEAT - which is your BMR (the cals you burn just being alive) plus an estimate of your calories from daily activity based on what activity level you chose. When you exercise and burn more calories than that you are meant to be eating those calories back to fuel your Total activity. FitBit provides a calorie adjustment which is representative of the difference between what MFP thought you’d burn and the total amount FitBit says you burn.
Ignoring those completely means you are significantly under fueling your body, and thinking it’s good to try to be just at your BMR when you are clearly an active person? That’s just a recipe for failure.
Eating 1800 ish calories and exercising off 1100 is the same as if you only ate 700 cals and did no exercise. Does that sound healthy?
Yeah I can take good advice! I like food.
Well gosh I sure am glad you finally got some good advice.
It is always welcome. I eat healthy and balanced I guess, so never felt the need to eat into my exercise cals. If I feel like it eat a banana or chai/whey shake pre and post runs. Never had health issues, I go for check ups, check my vitals etc. Posting here I realized I am in better shape I actually thought I was
How many times a week do you run 10+ Kilometers?
I run every day at least 10k. Monday, Tuesday more pace at under 6', fat-burn zones Wed to Fri at over 7'/km, Parkrun Saturdays a 22 minute 5k. Maybe skip two days through any month.
22 minute 5K every week.
Seriously that's pretty awesome. That's fast enough to podium in some areas. Not a first place, there's always somebody.
You really need to be feeding those runs. Carefully, no doubt, And congrats on losing 30Kg.
Youngsters at the local track clock it in 15m now THAT is impressive. I normally end up in the top 10 in my age group, did well over 50 PRs. I just don't eat crap, and I can only eat THAT much healthy food.0 -
@WinoGelato what's there to say?
The guy KNOWS he is supposed to do a 20% cut from actual TDEE.
He knows that his "MFP eating goal" PLUS "MFP selected deficit" PLUS "Fitbit adjustment" equals his Fitbit estimated TDEE for the day.
Which means that with a selected deficit in the 500 to 1000 range that his TDEE is probably in the 3300 to 3800 (2900+chosen deficit)
And be eats 1800.
So he's just about doing a 50% deficit instead of 20% (or 25% while obese).
Eventually he will crash. Neither the first one, nor the last....
Hey advise taken. Been doing this for a few years and I eat more some days, others less. Did a new calculation here
punching in Athlete.
https://tdeecalculator.net/result.php?s=metric&g=male&age=47&kg=89&cm=180&act=1.55&bf=28&f=1>
I am hardly skinny with a 28% bodyfat, weighing 89kg and 180cm tall.
You can really do a 22 minute 5K at that weight and amount of BF???
At my fastest I was runing 21 minute 5ks at 9-10% BF% at 140 lbs.
Also, no need for that much protein. 0.8-1 gram per lb of lean body mass is adequate, so for you that would be 113-141 grams per day. Based on weight and BF%1 -
@WinoGelato what's there to say?
The guy KNOWS he is supposed to do a 20% cut from actual TDEE.
He knows that his "MFP eating goal" PLUS "MFP selected deficit" PLUS "Fitbit adjustment" equals his Fitbit estimated TDEE for the day.
Which means that with a selected deficit in the 500 to 1000 range that his TDEE is probably in the 3300 to 3800 (2900+chosen deficit)
And be eats 1800.
So he's just about doing a 50% deficit instead of 20% (or 25% while obese).
Eventually he will crash. Neither the first one, nor the last....
Hey advise taken. Been doing this for a few years and I eat more some days, others less. Did a new calculation here
punching in Athlete.
https://tdeecalculator.net/result.php?s=metric&g=male&age=47&kg=89&cm=180&act=1.55&bf=28&f=1>
I am hardly skinny with a 28% bodyfat, weighing 89kg and 180cm tall.
You can really do a 22 minute 5K at that weight and amount of BF???
At my fastest I was runing 21 minute 5ks at 9-10% BF% at 140 lbs.
Also, no need for that much protein. 0.8-1 gram per lb of lean body mass is adequate, so for you that would be 113-141 grams per day. Based on weight and BF%
Using one of those scales but yes that is what it says, according to that I am "obese". Guess my stats are weird, my resting HR drops below 40, I average 167BMP at a parkrun going at 4'39''/KM0 -
Good on you for being responsive and receptive.@WinoGelato what's there to say?
The guy KNOWS he is supposed to do a 20% cut from actual TDEE.
He knows that his "MFP eating goal" PLUS "MFP selected deficit" PLUS "Fitbit adjustment" equals his Fitbit estimated TDEE for the day.
Which means that with a selected deficit in the 500 to 1000 range that his TDEE is probably in the 3300 to 3800 (2900+chosen deficit)
And be eats 1800.
So he's just about doing a 50% deficit instead of 20% (or 25% while obese).
Eventually he will crash. Neither the first one, nor the last....
Hey advise taken. Been doing this for a few years and I eat more some days, others less. Did a new calculation here
punching in Athlete.
NO doubt there will be a few more knee jerk responses. Don't take them personally.
2 -
stanmann571 wrote: »
Good on you for being responsive and receptive.@WinoGelato what's there to say?
The guy KNOWS he is supposed to do a 20% cut from actual TDEE.
He knows that his "MFP eating goal" PLUS "MFP selected deficit" PLUS "Fitbit adjustment" equals his Fitbit estimated TDEE for the day.
Which means that with a selected deficit in the 500 to 1000 range that his TDEE is probably in the 3300 to 3800 (2900+chosen deficit)
And be eats 1800.
So he's just about doing a 50% deficit instead of 20% (or 25% while obese).
Eventually he will crash. Neither the first one, nor the last....
Hey advise taken. Been doing this for a few years and I eat more some days, others less. Did a new calculation here
punching in Athlete.
NO doubt there will be a few more knee jerk responses. Don't take them personally.
No doubt, if you ever been on Planet Rugby's Forum you can take it on the chin!
0 -
@WinoGelato what's there to say?
The guy KNOWS he is supposed to do a 20% cut from actual TDEE.
He knows that his "MFP eating goal" PLUS "MFP selected deficit" PLUS "Fitbit adjustment" equals his Fitbit estimated TDEE for the day.
Which means that with a selected deficit in the 500 to 1000 range that his TDEE is probably in the 3300 to 3800 (2900+chosen deficit)
And be eats 1800.
So he's just about doing a 50% deficit instead of 20% (or 25% while obese).
Eventually he will crash. Neither the first one, nor the last....
Eating proper levels of calories are *totally* overrated, you know.
1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »To me eating exercise calories is like walking to McDonald's to buy a BigMac meal.
Then you don't understand how the tool "MFP" works.
I think it's kind of distorted to compare properly fueling your body to that of walking to McDonalds for a BigMac. If I didn't eat back my calories, I'd come up with a net of 0-300 cals everyday. I don't see that as the most healthy.WinoGelato wrote: »No - this is basically all wrong. The number that MFP provides you is an estimate of your NEAT - which is your BMR (the cals you burn just being alive) plus an estimate of your calories from daily activity based on what activity level you chose. When you exercise and burn more calories than that you are meant to be eating those calories back to fuel your Total activity. FitBit provides a calorie adjustment which is representative of the difference between what MFP thought you’d burn and the total amount FitBit says you burn.
Ignoring those completely means you are significantly under fueling your body, and thinking it’s good to try to be just at your BMR when you are clearly an active person? That’s just a recipe for failure.
Eating 1800 ish calories and exercising off 1100 is the same as if you only ate 700 cals and did no exercise. Does that sound healthy?
Yeah I can take good advice! I like food.
Well gosh I sure am glad you finally got some good advice.
It is always welcome. I eat healthy and balanced I guess, so never felt the need to eat into my exercise cals. If I feel like it eat a banana or chai/whey shake pre and post runs. Never had health issues, I go for check ups, check my vitals etc. Posting here I realized I am in better shape I actually thought I was
So you don't want to become vitamin or mineral deficient it sounds like (healthy & balanced eating).
While to lose weight you obviously need to be calorie deficient to a degree - too big is not good either.
Just as your body doesn't exactly show signs of V & M issue until it's bad enough to show up some way, and even then usually need a blood test or great comparison of effect & possible causes to increase eating what's missing - your body won't show fast responses to having a caloric deficiency that's too big.
Hunger isn't always trustworthy, as body can adapt in other ways to relieve a huge deficit it doesn't like.
Good to hear willing to take some of the advice - keeping that fitness ability in there.
Who knows - likely could be even better, just may not know!
Oh - many fats are healthy, should easily be possible to eat more without the light calorie stuff taking up a lot of room.5 -
You're certainly a FAST bunny!
Glad you're getting the memo that people who go around running for an hour and a half AND cover 15K are DEFINITELY in the "athlete" category!
Looking at TDEE charts is worthwhile when you don't yet have any other information and it is useful for periodical cross-checking purposes.
But, and especially if most of your activity is "step based", Fitbit does a pretty adequate job of figuring things out for you, so I don't know that you have to rely on chart ranges at this point.
Fitbit averages the activity it senses over every 5 time minute period and gives you calories at a single MET value for the time period. It then varies this MET value per 5 minute time periods throughout the day.
Most formulas assign a single MET value to the complete time period of the exercise/activity.
We've had disagreements before about the "final word" provided by the runner world formulas.
I consider the formulas to be good and useful cross checks for values determined in other ways.
When you are trying to determine a caloric burn there are some parameters that might be relevant: gender, height, weight, incline, speed, distance, heart rate, breaks in the activity, whether the person is carrying items, type of terrain, wind, etc, all come to mind.
So when your formulas don't account for a lot of relevant parameters they are just another "averaging" formula that does not derive inherently greater validity because it was published by a well known running magazine as opposed to being the formula used by a ubiquitous fitness tracker.
Also, IIRC, some runner world formulas are for net calories, some are for gross calories.
Reporting a run's calories is usually done in gross calories when one looks at an activity in an app or watch. While MFP itself does not account for the difference between net and gross calories when it comes to logging an exercise activity (which is a major source of the "exercise calories are over-stated issue"), the Fitbit-MFP integration takes care of the conversion of gross to net calories!
So when you're looking at your daily Fitbit adjustment to MFP you're looking at a number derived from Fitbit's estimation of your TDEE-- as long as you haven't made deliberate or accidental changes to the values it has detected on its own.
And in any case, all this is basically irrelevant.
Contrary to your assertion of being obese you're at ~27.5 bmi. And between your running and following rugby forums I somehow get the distinct impression that you are not the most excessively fat bmi 27.5 person. In other words you sound like a prime example of a not so overweight athletic male with an overweight BMI.
Between your actual body fat % and (if I read correctly, over 50 age), you may be closer to the bottom of overweight/top end of the normal weight range than anywhere else. And before accepting BIA scale estimates for your fat % I would almost consider BMI to be more accurate! ;-)
So even though you may think of yourself as being so far off... you may be actually quite a bit closer to "normal" fat levels.
In any case, it does not sound like you should be aiming for anything beyond 500 Cal a day deficits, which in the context of a 3500 Cal TDEE is like a 15%, not 50% cut off of your TDEE!
And since you have a Fitbit, you might as well connect it to trendweight.com so that you can start looking at your weight trend over time as opposed to your daily scale weight!
Take care!5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »To me eating exercise calories is like walking to McDonald's to buy a BigMac meal.
Then you don't understand how the tool "MFP" works.
I think it's kind of distorted to compare properly fueling your body to that of walking to McDonalds for a BigMac. If I didn't eat back my calories, I'd come up with a net of 0-300 cals everyday. I don't see that as the most healthy.WinoGelato wrote: »No - this is basically all wrong. The number that MFP provides you is an estimate of your NEAT - which is your BMR (the cals you burn just being alive) plus an estimate of your calories from daily activity based on what activity level you chose. When you exercise and burn more calories than that you are meant to be eating those calories back to fuel your Total activity. FitBit provides a calorie adjustment which is representative of the difference between what MFP thought you’d burn and the total amount FitBit says you burn.
Ignoring those completely means you are significantly under fueling your body, and thinking it’s good to try to be just at your BMR when you are clearly an active person? That’s just a recipe for failure.
Eating 1800 ish calories and exercising off 1100 is the same as if you only ate 700 cals and did no exercise. Does that sound healthy?
Yeah I can take good advice! I like food.
Well gosh I sure am glad you finally got some good advice.
It is always welcome. I eat healthy and balanced I guess, so never felt the need to eat into my exercise cals. If I feel like it eat a banana or chai/whey shake pre and post runs. Never had health issues, I go for check ups, check my vitals etc. Posting here I realized I am in better shape I actually thought I was
So you don't want to become vitamin or mineral deficient it sounds like (healthy & balanced eating).
While to lose weight you obviously need to be calorie deficient to a degree - too big is not good either.
Just as your body doesn't exactly show signs of V & M issue until it's bad enough to show up some way, and even then usually need a blood test or great comparison of effect & possible causes to increase eating what's missing - your body won't show fast responses to having a caloric deficiency that's too big.
Hunger isn't always trustworthy, as body can adapt in other ways to relieve a huge deficit it doesn't like.
Good to hear willing to take some of the advice - keeping that fitness ability in there.
Who knows - likely could be even better, just may not know!
Oh - many fats are healthy, should easily be possible to eat more without the light calorie stuff taking up a lot of room.
Indeed my diet normally leans to HFLC but I have carb cycles preparing for a longer run or maybe a race day here and there. Carbs hold back a lot of water and I am particulary sensitive to it. Thanks for for your input.
0 -
You're certainly a FAST bunny!
Glad you're getting the memo that people who go around running for an hour and a half AND cover 15K are DEFINITELY in the "athlete" category!
Looking at TDEE charts is worthwhile when you don't yet have any other information and it is useful for periodical cross-checking purposes.
But, and especially if most of your activity is "step based", Fitbit does a pretty adequate job of figuring things out for you, so I don't know that you have to rely on chart ranges at this point.
Fitbit averages the activity it senses over every 5 time minute period and gives you calories at a single MET value for the time period. It then varies this MET value per 5 minute time periods throughout the day.
Most formulas assign a single MET value to the complete time period of the exercise/activity.
We've had disagreements before about the "final word" provided by the runner world formulas.
I consider the formulas to be good and useful cross checks for values determined in other ways.
When you are trying to determine a caloric burn there are some parameters that might be relevant: gender, height, weight, incline, speed, distance, heart rate, breaks in the activity, whether the person is carrying items, type of terrain, wind, etc, all come to mind.
So when your formulas don't account for a lot of relevant parameters they are just another "averaging" formula that does not derive inherently greater validity because it was published by a well known running magazine as opposed to being the formula used by a ubiquitous fitness tracker.
Also, IIRC, some runner world formulas are for net calories, some are for gross calories.
Reporting a run's calories is usually done in gross calories when one looks at an activity in an app or watch. While MFP itself does not account for the difference between net and gross calories when it comes to logging an exercise activity (which is a major source of the "exercise calories are over-stated issue"), the Fitbit-MFP integration takes care of the conversion of gross to net calories!
So when you're looking at your daily Fitbit adjustment to MFP you're looking at a number derived from Fitbit's estimation of your TDEE-- as long as you haven't made deliberate or accidental changes to the values it has detected on its own.
And in any case, all this is basically irrelevant.
Contrary to your assertion of being obese you're at ~27.5 bmi. And between your running and following rugby forums I somehow get the distinct impression that you are not the most excessively fat bmi 27.5 person. In other words you sound like a prime example of a not so overweight athletic male with an overweight BMI.
Between your actual body fat % and (if I read correctly, over 50 age), you may be closer to the bottom of overweight/top end of the normal weight range than anywhere else. And before accepting BIA scale estimates for your fat % I would almost consider BMI to be more accurate! ;-)
So even though you may think of yourself as being so far off... you may be actually quite a bit closer to "normal" fat levels.
In any case, it does not sound like you should be aiming for anything beyond 500 Cal a day deficits, which in the context of a 3500 Cal TDEE is like a 15%, not 50% cut off of your TDEE!
And since you have a Fitbit, you might as well connect it to trendweight.com so that you can start looking at your weight trend over time as opposed to your daily scale weight!
Take care!
Great read, thank you. I normally don't restrict my food intake where I throw in intermittent fasting where I have 1800 calories at one sitting, which can be a lot of healthier food if you cut out gluten, simple carbs and high calorie stuff like nuts.
Actually doing a half-marathon this Saturday and see if I can get it sub 1h40, so will post results : )0
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